The Dixie Chicks

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't think it's fair to say that ALL the troops are happy with what they're doing, and not disgruntled about certain things - like the armor situation, long rotations, repeat rotations, etc.

There are websites where you can read what servicemen are experiencing. Some of them are tired, discouraged and they want to come home. That doesn't mean they will slack on their job or talk about it in front of their superiors.

Does this mean we should not have criticized LBJ, or called for the end to the Viet Nam war? If there were no criticism would it have just gone on and on, and he run for another term?

Americans can and should express their opinions, just hopefully in a non-violent and appropriate venue. Denegrating the soldiers who serve though, as they did some during Viet Nam, is definitely wrong, IMO.

I don't recall seeing the word "ALL" in anyone's post discussing this topic. I also don't recall anyone saying that citizens shouldn't be allowed to criticize or make their feelings known.

They had every right to say what they said, although I think it was cowardly to wait until they weren't in America to do so. The radio stations and the people who boycotted them for that opinion also had the right to do so. Freedom of speech comes with consequences and they need to stop whinning and accept those consequences.

 

[Nova]

I don't recall seeing the word "ALL" in anyone's post discussing this topic. I also don't recall anyone saying that citizens shouldn't be allowed to criticize or make their feelings known.

They had every right to say what they said, although I think it was cowardly to wait until they weren't in America to do so. The radio stations and the people who boycotted them for that opinion also had the right to do so. Freedom of speech comes with consequences and they need to stop whinning and accept those consequences.

Whining? I missed the whining.

But assuming they whined sometime and I missed it, most people don't like being punished for speaking the truth. Why should they?

Furthermore, you seem to miss one of Martha's many excellent points. Even assuming that most of our troops support the war in Iraq, there are many who don't. Who "supports" them? Apparently, not those of you who want to stifle the truth.

(ETA I'm sorry if my post sounds snappish. But this "okay they were right, but they said it at the wrong time or in the wrong place" stuff is really frustrating. And the "let's don't speak out against a lying president and his immoral war because it might hurt a soldier's feelings" is worse than frustrating. It's deadly.)

 

[nanandjim]

...Even assuming that most of our troops support the war in Iraq, there are many who don't. Who "supports" them?...

Anyone who joins the service is paid to serve our country if needed. Everyone who enters the military knows this. It is voluntary.

I find it amazing that some people think that it is okay to reap the benefits but balk when they are actually called upon to perform their particular jobs.

It's a tough job. I wouldn't do it. I admire those who serve our country. However, I have no respect who willingly take the paychecks and benefits and then complain when it is time to actually do what they have been paid to do.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Whining? I missed the whining.

But assuming they whined sometime and I missed it, most people don't like being punished for speaking the truth. Why should they?

Furthermore, you seem to miss Martha's excellent point. Even assuming that most of our troops support the war in Iraq, there are many who don't. Who "supports" them? Apparently, not those of you who want to stifle the truth.

I'm pretty disappointed in the tone that your posts are taking toward me Nova.

In the first place, troops, don't get to pick where they end up or what their jobs are. They are there to follow orders. I'm not so sure that "supporting" the war is the correct terminology. They work hard. They can see the progress that they're making there and they're proud of what they've accomplished. And, if I've it said that they're their "for one another." Even those who are eligible to come home want to stay because their brothers are there. As far as me supporting the troops, words are cheap, right. I'm in daily contact with several mothers whose sons are fighting and they like to send care packages. They don't just send a box to their own children. Most of them send items for the entire company. So, my money is where my mouth is when I donate to this cause every week.

As for the Dixie Chicks, yeah, they've been whinning about the treatment they've received since they made their grand statement in the U.K. My feeling is that if they can't take the heat, they should shut their mouths.

 

[nanandjim]

...As for the Dixie Chicks, yeah, they've been whinning about the treatment they've received since they made their grand statement in the U.K. My feeling is that if they can't take the heat, they should shut their mouths.

I totally agree.

 

[Nova]

I'm pretty disappointed in the tone that your posts are taking toward me Nova.

Jeana, never for one moment have I doubted the sincerity of your support, nor did it occur to me that your support of our military consisted merely of "words."

Nor do I doubt that posters here mean well when they want to stifle dissent out of concern for troop morale. I'm saying such posters are misguided, not malevolent - but their view is deadly all the same.

Yes, our soldiers volunteer for duty, and the overwhelming majority have honored that duty in Iraq. They are to be respected and commended for that, no matter what one thinks of the war.

And part of what they volunteered for is the risk of violent death while serving our country. But because of that their service and their lives constitute a SACRED TRUST. Not something to be spent lightly by a dishonest President with a hidden agenda, who happily conflated one Arab nation with another in order to further his personal aims and those of his wealthy friends.

Yes, our troops volunteered. But also yes, President Bush vowed to defend the Constitution. The former have kept their bargains, with very few exceptions. President Bush has not.

The Dixie Chicks have not just a right, but an obligation to say so. As do we all.

 

[Nova]

BTW, could I have one example of the Dixie Chicks whining? (I suspect we may not agree as to the use of that verb.)

 

[nanandjim]

...Yes, our troops volunteered. But also yes, President Bush vowed to defend the Constitution. The former have kept their bargains, with very few exceptions. President Bush has not.

The Dixie Chicks have not just a right, but an obligation to say so. As do we all.

Nova - This is your opinion, but it is not mine. You--and the Dixie Chicks--can voice your opinions. The problem is the Dixie Chicks used a public platform, which was to be used to perform their music, not to talk about politics.

I, and others who feel the same way that I do, have just as much right to no longer support the Dixie Chicks and others like them.

If a public figure wants to use his/her platform to espouse their political views, s/he should be prepared to accept any and all consequences.

The Dixie Chicks went on a liberal show, 60 Minutes, to whine and complain about how they have been treated because of their remarks. Of course, they also timed the interview with their latest release of the new CD.

Examples of whining: :boohoo:
*Radio stations won't play our songs... Waawaawaa
*Country music fans are rednecks, anyway...Waawaawaa
*Why aren't people buying our CD's? Waawaawaa
*We aren't politicians. Waawaawaa
*We received death threats...Waawaawaa

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, never for one moment have I doubted the sincerity of your support, nor did it occur to me that your support of our military consisted merely of "words."

Nor do I doubt that posters here mean well when they want to stifle dissent out of concern for troop morale. I'm saying such posters are misguided, not malevolent - but their view is deadly all the same.

Yes, our soldiers volunteer for duty, and the overwhelming majority have honored that duty in Iraq. They are to be respected and commended for that, no matter what one thinks of the war.

And part of what they volunteered for is the risk of violent death while serving our country. But because of that their service and their lives constitute a SACRED TRUST. Not something to be spent lightly by a dishonest President with a hidden agenda, who happily conflated one Arab nation with another in order to further his personal aims and those of his wealthy friends.

Yes, our troops volunteered. But also yes, President Bush vowed to defend the Constitution. The former have kept their bargains, with very few exceptions. President Bush has not.

The Dixie Chicks have not just a right, but an obligation to say so. As do we all.

I agree with your post. I didn't want this war and I don't support it. I think it was a HUGE mistake from day one. And, as I've said several times, I support the right of the Dixie Chicks to say what they want, even if they didn't have guts to say it in America. From the people I know who have family members serving in this war, the comments pretty much seem to be that they too support the right of Americans to speak freely and they'll lay down their lives to make sure they continue to have that right. However, it doesn't make them feel too good to hear people say hurtful things. We're talking about kids here. Most of these guys are between 19-27 years old. Many are away from their families for the first time (at least for this period of time). It doesn't make them feel good to finally come home for two weeks and hear all this crap. Whether its directly aimed at them or not, many take it personally.

The right of the Dixie Chicks to spout off may be an "obligation," but there's nothing you can ever say to me that will make it OK for them to have done so in the manner and location in which they spoke out. Like I said, get on one of the news channels here in Texas during prime time and have them say it and have the balls to listen to the responses of their fellow Americans. Don't go to another country and bad mouth your President. Frankly, its chicken .

 

[Nova]

Nova - This is your opinion, but it is not mine. You--and the Dixie Chicks--can voice your opinions. The problem is the Dixie Chicks used a public platform, which was to be used to perform their music, not to talk about politics.

Nan, please check my posts in this thread. I have never said anyone HAS to buy a Dixie Chicks record. (I never have, but I think I'll be at the record store by the end of this discussion. )

As for the "platform" they used, I must say the idea that there should be some divide between "entertainment" and "ethical (including political) speech" is a very recent concept historically. For most of recorded history, it was assumed an artist had some obligation to speak for what is right.

All serious artists still feel that way. It is what makes them "serious."

-----

As for the list of whines, most of those are simple statements of fact. They have received death threats. Many radio stations will not play their records. I know some want them to pretend the President is better than he is. Must they also pretend that what happens doesn't? When is the lying to end?

 

[Nova]

I agree with your post. I didn't want this war and I don't support it. I think it was a HUGE mistake from day one. And, as I've said several times, I support the right of the Dixie Chicks to say what they want, even if they didn't have guts to say it in America. From the people I know who have family members serving in this war, the comments pretty much seem to be that they too support the right of Americans to speak freely and they'll lay down their lives to make sure they continue to have that right. However, it doesn't make them feel too good to hear people say hurtful things. We're talking about kids here. Most of these guys are between 19-27 years old. Many are away from their families for the first time (at least for this period of time). It doesn't make them feel good to finally come home for two weeks and hear all this crap. Whether its directly aimed at them or not, many take it personally.

The right of the Dixie Chicks to spout off may be an "obligation," but there's nothing you can ever say to me that will make it OK for them to have done so in the manner and location in which they spoke out. Like I said, get on one of the news channels here in Texas during prime time and have them say it and have the balls to listen to the responses of their fellow Americans. Don't go to another country and bad mouth your President. Frankly, its chicken .

Jeana, I promise you I get no pleasure from saying things that upset young heros. So what do you propose instead? Do we simply accept dishonest and immoral wars to avoid upsetting those who are most hurt by them? Don't we owe public servants better than that?

As for the Chicks, when they say something in Britain (our closest ally), they are inappropriate. When they say something here at home, they are whining. Can we establish the correct (and apparently very narrow) forum for their speech?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

BTW, could I have one example of the Dixie Chicks whining? (I suspect we may not agree as to the use of that verb.)

Saw them on the news just a day or two ago talking about the situation and the backlash they experienced. They're also bagging on country music:

The Dixie Chicks talk to Steve Kroft at 60 Minutes about their death threat in Dallas three years ago, among other items, this Sunday. Again, death threats ain't funny. But this quote from the upcoming show is:

"Since country music's turned into this redneck theme, it's become kind of a negative thing in my mind, where I didn't think it was negative before," says fiddle player Martie Maguire. "I think for a while, a lot of artists were doing a lot of great things...that were broadening the audience so that country was cool. So it makes me sad that it's kind of reverted back to a place that I'm not that proud of — and this is coming from a true country fan. I can't listen to the radio right now."

Now, they've insulted the family of deceased singer Buddy Holly:

LUBBOCK, Texas -- A reference to Buddy Holly on an upcoming Dixie Chicks album isn't setting right with brothers of the 1950s music legend.

In "Lubbock or Leave It," Natalie Maines, a native of this West Texas city, sings: "I hear they hate me now/Just like they hated you./Maybe when I'm dead and gone/I'm gonna get a statue, too."

Holly, whose statue is in downtown Lubbock, was born here and died in a plane crash along with singers Ritchie Valens and J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson in Iowa in 1959.

Holly's older brother, Larry O. Holley, said he doesn't know of anyone in Lubbock who hated his sibling.

"Older people in town thought rock 'n' roll was for kids," Holley said. "But no one hated Buddy."

remainder of article at:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/pop/1403AP_Dixie_Chicks_Buddy_Holly.html



_____________________________________

Is there some reason they feel the need to go from place to place and just trash everything and everyone? Sounds me to like they're just not happy with themselves, and are attaching that bitterness to everyone else.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

As for the list of whines, most of those are simple statements of fact. They have received death threats. Many radio stations will not play their records. I know some want them to pretend the President is better than he is. Must they also pretend that what happens doesn't? When is the lying to end?

Not Nan, but responding. Freedom of speech sometimes comes with consequences that the speaker may not like. They don't have to pretend anything, but if they want to continue having the public focus on their politics instead of their music, then I think its career suicide.

 

[Nova]

Thank you, Jeana.

In terms of the remarks on country music, I'm not sure that's whining so much as an observation of the narrow confines of the genre today. A few years back, the DC were said to be broadening the genre; if radio stations now refuse to play their CD for political reasons, then I'd say the woman has a point.

As for the allusion to Holly, I haven't heard the song. Those lines out of context (not blaming you for that) sound pretty ironic to me, not whiny.

As for "insulting" the Holly family, that's just silly. The songwriter may be laboring under a misconception as to how much resistance there actually was to early rock 'n roll, but whose fault is that? Anybody seen the movie?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I promise you I get no pleasure from saying things that upset young heros. So what do you propose instead? Do we simply accept dishonest and immoral wars to avoid upsetting those who are most hurt by them? Don't we owe public servants better than that?

As for the Chicks, when they say something in Britain (our closest ally), they are inappropriate. When they say something here at home, they are whining. Can we establish the correct (and apparently very narrow) forum for their speech?

I don't think that we need to accept what a person considers to be dishonest or immoral from our government, but please tell me what possible good they thought they could do by going to another country and making that statement? It was grandstanding as far as I'm concerned. Moreover, a one-sentence "protest" accomplished nothing. If they want to do some good, I'm sure there are thousands of organizations they could join and try to lobby for things to be changed.

Its not hard to understand that there are things one can say that are inappropriate and others that are whinney, right? Two different times, two different circumstances. Regardless of whether Britian is our closest ally or not, it certainly wasn't the United States of America. They should have had enough conviction in their opinion that would go to any public arena in the U.S. and make that comment. They were cowards and, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think they've got the guts to say what they did here in America.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank you, Jeana.

In terms of the remarks on country music, I'm not sure that's whining so much as an observation of the narrow confines of the genre today. A few years back, the DC were said to be broadening the genre; if radio stations now refuse to play their CD for political reasons, then I'd say the woman has a point.

As for the allusion to Holly, I haven't heard the song. Those lines out of context (not blaming you for that) sound pretty ironic to me, not whiny.

As for "insulting" the Holly family, that's just silly. The songwriter may be laboring under a misconception as to how much resistance there actually was to early rock 'n roll, but whose fault is that? Anybody seen the movie?

I don't think people's feelings about their dead relatives is stilly Nova. Again, it was something they felt they had to say for apparently no reason whatever and I don't think that they even stopped to consider who they might be hurting as long as they got their record finished.

 

[nanandjim]

:laugh:

...I think I'll be at the record store by the end of this discussion. ...

Hey, Nova - You could get your Christmas shopping done in one fell swoop! Buy all your friends and family a copy of the latest Dixie Chicks' CD!! :blowkiss:

 

[nanandjim]

Can we establish the correct (and apparently very narrow) forum for their speech?

Yes ==> :silenced:

 

[narlacat]

Don't dare speak out against your own it would seem.
Stand by your Prez, even when he is corrupt.

 

[Nova]

I don't think people's feelings about their dead relatives is stilly Nova. Again, it was something they felt they had to say for apparently no reason whatever and I don't think that they even stopped to consider who they might be hurting as long as they got their record finished.

Oh, come on. The myth (whether true or not) is that Buddy Holly (and other early rockers) were "hated" for singing rock at a time when it was considered "African-American" music (to put it nicely) or just play "Satanic." There are scenes about this in the movie bio, to take just one example.

Every sane person now sees this early hysteria about "demon rock 'n roll" as silly and most now see Holly as a great songwriter. So whether she is historically accurate or not, the "hatred" of Holly to which the song refers is a badge of honor and very much to Mr. Holly's credit. IT'S A COMPLIMENT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SONG.

Some people (and I don't mean just at this forum) are twisting themselves ever' which way to demonize the Chicks and for what? A half-dozen or so words about the worst president, possibly ever? Strange priorities.