The Ramsey case - in real time

[Nuisanceposter]

The deep furrow around JBR's neck, and the crack in her head, are evidence of a 'deliberate and brutal murder,' more so than the vaginal inflammation is evidence of 'chronic sexual abuse occurring over years and years'.

While the deep furrow can only be rationally interpreted as intending to kill, the vaginal inflammation could also be interpreted as repreated exposure to irritants or allergens.

Therefore, since JBR was brutally murdered (the only possible interpretation), as evidenced by the deep furrow around her neck, the idea of something going wrong with the 'same old game' can be safely ruled out. Players of the same old game aren't going to 'brutally' murder JBR, are they?

Well, maybe if it was only vaginal inflamation, but it wasn't...re-read Blue Crab's post right before your last one where he goes into detail on the evidence of sexual abuse present on JonBenet. How does a 6 year old girl have virtually no hymen from irritants or allergens? What idiot mother keeps giving her daughter bubble baths if it means the child has to keep returning to the doctor - 27 times in 3 years, that's like once a month - and can't figure out to stop using bubble bath? I highly doubt all of JonBenet's vaginal irritation, the kind that requires a doctor's care, came from wetting herself or taking a bubble bath...I think it came from her being molested repeatedly.

I also think the skull fracture was incurred as it became apparent that Jonbenet was already dying from being strangled as a measure of deflection from the actual crime or as an accident from someone realizing their child was being molested by the other parent and unintentionally striking her instead.

As for the garrote...I don't think the molester meant to kill her, I suspect s/he did not realize the garotte was going to pinch down on the vagus nerve and shut down JonBenet's life systems as fast as it did. I think it just got out of control from the perp being a person who was out of control of themselves at the time of the assault on JonBenet, and it all went on from there. Why would the molester intend to kill the child s/he was using for sex? Why would an intruder or kidnapper want to kill the child either? A kidnapper would have taken her out of the house and molested her elsewhere, and an intruder wouldn't have bothered with the RN and all of that covering up, plus you have the inconsistencies and refusal to cooperate coming from the Ramseys...one of them did it, didn't mean to do it, and has gotten away with it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, maybe if it was only vaginal inflamation, but it wasn't...re-read Blue Crab's post right before your last one where he goes into detail on the evidence of sexual abuse present on JonBenet. How does a 6 year old girl have virtually no hymen from irritants or allergens? What idiot mother keeps giving her daughter bubble baths if it means the child has to keep returning to the doctor - 27 times in 3 years, that's like once a month - and can't figure out to stop using bubble bath? I highly doubt all of JonBenet's vaginal irritation, the kind that requires a doctor's care, came from wetting herself or taking a bubble bath...I think it came from her being molested repeatedly.

I also think the skull fracture was incurred as it became apparent that Jonbenet was already dying from being strangled as a measure of deflection from the actual crime or as an accident from someone realizing their child was being molested by the other parent and unintentionally striking her instead.

As for the garrote...I don't think the molester meant to kill her, I suspect s/he did not realize the garotte was going to pinch down on the vagus nerve and shut down JonBenet's life systems as fast as it did. I think it just got out of control from the perp being a person who was out of control of themselves at the time of the assault on JonBenet, and it all went on from there. Why would the molester intend to kill the child s/he was using for sex? Why would an intruder or kidnapper want to kill the child either? A kidnapper would have taken her out of the house and molested her elsewhere, and an intruder wouldn't have bothered with the RN and all of that covering up, plus you have the inconsistencies and refusal to cooperate coming from the Ramseys...one of them did it, didn't mean to do it, and has gotten away with it.

I wouldn't take as fact a third party observation, especially when they weren't there and didn't have access to JBR for any examination.

The evidence of brutality is so prevalent. IOW there's a ton of evidence of brutality in the murder. Even the RN was brutal. This contradicts any idea that someone 'didn't mean to do it'.

Was this a brutal child murder, or an unfortunate accident? A rational person must acknowledge the brutality that runs rampant throughout the murder scene.

This was obviously no 'accident.'

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I didn't see the ransom note as being brutal. It was even conversant in some areas. "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you.." - what's brutal about that? "I advise you to be rested" - why would the killer/napper care at all if John got his rest? That's not brutal. "Use that good southern common sense" - decidedly unbrutal. Plus I'd be willing to bet that note was written after the child was already dead.

The strangling was brutal, especailly coupled with the sexual abuse, but it could have been far worse. The killer/molester could have left her prominently displayed in death, in some humiliating pose. That would have been brutal. But no, she was wiped down and redressed and wrapped up in her blankie. The opposite of brutal.

The skull fracture - again, that's brutal, but you would think there would be more force used if this was meant to be a brutal killing - I would have expected to hear that JonBenet's skull was fractured by more than one blow, or perhaps other bones were fractured from being brutally killed with a blunt instrument, but again - just the one fracture, not as brutal as it could have been.

It was an accident. Killers don't leave ransom notes, and kidnappers don't kill their victims in their own home. You also have to consider the way the Ramseys have behaved...they are covering for someone, and they would only cover as fiercely as they have for one of their own.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't see the ransom note as being brutal. It was even conversant in some areas. "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you.." - what's brutal about that? "I advise you to be rested" - why would the killer/napper care at all if John got his rest? That's not brutal. "Use that good southern common sense" - decidedly unbrutal. Plus I'd be willing to bet that note was written after the child was already dead.

The strangling was brutal, especially coupled with the sexual abuse, but it could have been far worse. The killer/molester could have left her prominently displayed in death, in some humiliating pose. That would have been brutal. But no, she was wiped down and redressed and wrapped up in her blankie. The opposite of brutal.

The skull fracture - again, that's brutal, but you would think there would be more force used if this was meant to be a brutal killing - I would have expected to hear that JonBenet's skull was fractured by more than one blow, or perhaps other bones were fractured from being brutally killed with a blunt instrument, but again - just the one fracture, not as brutal as it could have been.

It was an accident. Killers don't leave ransom notes, and kidnappers don't kill their victims in their own home. You also have to consider the way the Ramseys have behaved...they are covering for someone, and they would only cover as fiercely as they have for one of their own.

I agree.

HOTYH I would venture to guess doesn't believe there was any staging?

 

[SisterSocks]

IMO Patsy wrote that note.

I think Pats wrote that note too

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I didn't see the ransom note as being brutal.

Uh, hello?

Since when is threatening to behead a 6 year old not brutal?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Uh, hello?

Since when is threatening to behead a 6 year old not brutal?

When the author has no intention of doing so!


Poor baby was already dead!

 

[Thorkim]

Well, maybe if it was only vaginal inflamation, but it wasn't...re-read Blue Crab's post right before your last one where he goes into detail on the evidence of sexual abuse present on JonBenet. How does a 6 year old girl have virtually no hymen from irritants or allergens? What idiot mother keeps giving her daughter bubble baths if it means the child has to keep returning to the doctor - 27 times in 3 years, that's like once a month - and can't figure out to stop using bubble bath? I highly doubt all of JonBenet's vaginal irritation, the kind that requires a doctor's care, came from wetting herself or taking a bubble bath...I think it came from her being molested repeatedly.

I also think the skull fracture was incurred as it became apparent that Jonbenet was already dying from being strangled as a measure of deflection from the actual crime or as an accident from someone realizing their child was being molested by the other parent and unintentionally striking her instead.

As for the garrote...I don't think the molester meant to kill her, I suspect s/he did not realize the garotte was going to pinch down on the vagus nerve and shut down JonBenet's life systems as fast as it did. I think it just got out of control from the perp being a person who was out of control of themselves at the time of the assault on JonBenet, and it all went on from there. Why would the molester intend to kill the child s/he was using for sex? Why would an intruder or kidnapper want to kill the child either? A kidnapper would have taken her out of the house and molested her elsewhere, and an intruder wouldn't have bothered with the RN and all of that covering up, plus you have the inconsistencies and refusal to cooperate coming from the Ramseys...one of them did it, didn't mean to do it, and has gotten away with it.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[tipper]

Well, maybe if it was only vaginal inflamation, but it wasn't...re-read Blue Crab's post right before your last one where he goes into detail on the evidence of sexual abuse present on JonBenet. How does a 6 year old girl have virtually no hymen from irritants or allergens? What idiot mother keeps giving her daughter bubble baths if it means the child has to keep returning to the doctor - 27 times in 3 years, that's like once a month - and can't figure out to stop using bubble bath? I highly doubt all of JonBenet's vaginal irritation, the kind that requires a doctor's care, came from wetting herself or taking a bubble bath...I think it came from her being molested repeatedly.


[...]

No. The majority of her 27 visits were for sinus infections and for colds. There were 3 for urinary pain, vaginal redness etc. and only one (Apr '94) of those was suggested to be related to bubble bath. The other (Sept '93) was related to a bout of diarrhea and one (Mar '95) was for abdominal pain with fever. She had her vaginal area checked other times as part of routine physicals.

Have you read Beuf's interview?

 

[txsvicki]

At the time of death or shortly before, didn't JonBenet suffer from about all the ailments: bladder infection, vaginal redness and discharge, sinus problem with bad breath, cough, stuffy nose, and diahrrea? That would be miserable and could make for a really cranky child who might be fussy about what to wear to parties or to bed , refusal to eat at parties, demanding bedtime snacks, not wanting to go to bed early, getting up and down after going to bed, wetting the bed, and maybe crying a little and refusal to mind. Could set someone off enough to kill her. JonBenet could have also been threatening to tell on whoever might have been abusing her and beginning to refuse the abuse. About the possible ongoing abuse and the health symptoms. If the abuser is the murderer and JonBenet were regularly abused and the later murdered in that basement room, could the ongoing health problems dealing with cough, stuffed nose, bad breath, and intestinal have been related to an allergy from the mold down in that room and the rest of the symptoms due to sexual abuse.

 

[aussiesheila]

Her whole demeanour changed at this part of the interview. That is a fact. I would be reluctant to make any interpretation of her demeanour as I am not qualified to do so.

It's possible that this interview is still online. They used to be here:-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523892.shtml

And here:-

http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/

Thanks for those links Jayelles. Unfortunately I couldn't open them though.
Her change in demeanour sounds very interesting. I am not qualified to interpret it either but even a layperson can see that there is something strange going on and I have my suspicions about what it is.

 

[aussiesheila]

Really...someone was molesting JonBenet, both before and at the time of her death. The chances are overwhelming that the molester was a close family friend or even more likely, a member of her own family. That person is a pedophile to be using a child for sex, and that's not an imaginary idea.

Thank you Nuisanceposter, you've done a better job than I think I could have done in answering that question.

 

[aussiesheila]

IMO if you use the murder itself as an argument in favor of a family or friend being a pedophile, it has the appearance of circular reasoning.

IOW, is there any indication aside from the murder, that an R or their friend is a pedophile?

The chances are overwhelming that a child molester would be a close family friend. OK. Agreeing.

The chances are way less overwhelming that a child killer was a close family friend. A molester is not automatically a murderer.

As this was brought on by a post of mine I will answer it. I have NEVER said that I thought the murderer was a close family friend. What I have repeatedly said is that I think JonBenet had been sexually abused for years by pedophiles who were close to the family. I think though that on that ONE night they let an extra person join their group, a person whom they had only just met. This outsider was, unbeknownst to them, a killer as well as being a pedophile. Had they known this they would NEVER have allowed him to join the group IMO

 

[aussiesheila]

Nuisanceposter,

I agree that JonBenet had likely been sexually abused.

Additional evidence of having been molested in days prior to the murder include the size of the hymenal orifice being approximately twice the size it should have been; and both the acute and the chronic vaginal injuries being at the same 7 o'clock position (suggesting the same person inflicted both the acute and the chronic injuries).

The injuries to the vagina point to a family member, because only a family member would likely be able to get to JonBenet on a daily basis.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab, I don't think it would have had to be DAILY abuse for JonBenet to have had those symptoms. I think weekly or monthly would have been sufficient. And that was about how often John was away on business when the pedophiles I am talking about would have had access to her.

 

[Jayelles]

Thanks for those links Jayelles. Unfortunately I couldn't open them though.
Her change in demeanour sounds very interesting. I am not qualified to interpret it either but even a layperson can see that there is something strange going on and I have my suspicions about what it is.

I had a feeling they might be dead links :-( Perhaps someone will have saved them and might be willing to post that little segment?

Alternatively, you could contact the websites and ask them to put up the bit where Patsy was questioned about abuse in her family. I'm sure one of those websites had the interviews posted in segments so it might not be hard to find the right bit.

 

[Jayelles]

IMO if you use the murder itself as an argument in favor of a family or friend being a pedophile, it has the appearance of circular reasoning.

IOW, is there any indication aside from the murder, that an R or their friend is a pedophile?

The chances are overwhelming that a child molester would be a close family friend. OK. Agreeing.

The chances are way less overwhelming that a child killer was a close family friend. A molester is not automatically a murderer.

Holdontoyourhat - you seem to have missed my post where I asked you if you are familiar with Dave's analysis of the 911 tape. Would you care to comment?

 

[aussiesheila]

The deep furrow around JBR's neck, and the crack in her head, are evidence of a 'deliberate and brutal murder,' more so than the vaginal inflammation is evidence of 'chronic sexual abuse occurring over years and years'.

While the deep furrow can only be rationally interpreted as intending to kill, the vaginal inflammation could also be interpreted as repreated exposure to irritants or allergens.

Therefore, since JBR was brutally murdered (the only possible interpretation), as evidenced by the deep furrow around her neck, the idea of something going wrong with the 'same old game' can be safely ruled out. Players of the same old game aren't going to 'brutally' murder JBR, are they?

I agree that JonBenet was brutally bashed over the head, IMO with a baseball bat wielded by a violent 'outsider' pedophile. I think the local regulars were only expecting more of the 'same old game', not realising that the extra pedophile they had allowed to join their group that night was a violent killer as well. I think he introduced the stun gun to the activities that night which the regulars had never seen used before.

I think that maybe when he used the stun gun, or possibly when he used the paintbrush handle, JonBenet screamed incredibly loudly. I think at that moment one of the regulars got a fright and pulled the ligature too tightly around her neck hoping to quieten her down and accidentally strangled her. I think that at that same moment the ring-in decided to silence her and he bashed her over the head with the bat.

 

[BlueCrab]

I agree that JonBenet was brutally bashed over the head, IMO with a baseball bat wielded by a violent 'outsider' pedophile. I think the local regulars were only expecting more of the 'same old game', not realising that the extra pedophile they had allowed to join their group that night was a violent killer as well. I think he introduced the stun gun to the activities that night which the regulars had never seen used before.

I think that maybe when he used the stun gun, or possibly when he used the paintbrush handle, JonBenet screamed incredibly loudly. I think at that moment one of the regulars got a fright and pulled the ligature too tightly around her neck hoping to quieten her down and accidentally strangled her. I think that at that same moment the ring-in decided to silence her and he bashed her over the head with the bat.

aussiesheila,

The scenario you paint in your theory is a possibility.