The Science Fair-IB Expo and the Electric Project

[BeanE]

Direct link to video for those just joining the thread. I also put it in today's news thread if anybody needs to grab it later.

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

 

[hollye]

It's amazing what they can learn from even toddlers and babies! A good child psychologist might be able to figure out if she has recently been emotionally traumatized somehow. Babies aren't like grown ups...they don't know how to hide their thoughts/feelings. If she is shown a picture of Terri, does she tense up, get fussy, or cling to others? Have her developmental milestones slowed down or even gone backwards (as the brain processes trauma)? Is she not asking for her mommy (doesn't want to see her, scared of her, etc.)? No, it's not exactly something you can ask her in court "did you see your mommy hurt your big brother?". But professional testimony does carry an appropriate amount of weight in court.

My little brother, who had been fairly verbal at age 2, suddenly just stopped talking. He became violent in his play mannerisms, which was not typical for him. And his appetite went out the window at a time when toddlers are usually having a growth spurt and eating like crazy. We later found out that that was around the time that our uncle had started molesting him.

Agreed, but if the something that occurred did not appear to be violent in nature, it is quite possible that Baby K, if she did see something, did not recognize it as being traumatizing. If she was physically there, when whatever happened occurred, maybe she could have been sleeping, maybe she was left in her carseat, facing away from the exchange, Kyron could have been given something to make him sleep and was carried to whereever he was taken, the exchange could have been not overly dramatic, so as that she would not have recognized it as being traumatic for her. Any of these things and more could have occurred. Unless the trauma occurred directly to her, the likelihood that she would recognize it as being traumatic, IMO, would be quite a bit lower for a child her age. This is all purely speculation on my part.

 

[trigger]

So odd that noone mentioned the baby being with her that day...another puzzling aspect of this maddening case. It's so hard to imagine she would harm one child in the presence of another. It's sickening. K is 19 months old isn't she? I wonder how articulate she is and if she has been creatively interviewed. If she witnessed something horrific, she may well react in some way when asked about it, Granted LE would not be able to use "testimony" from a baby, however she may be able to point them is the right direction to find Kyron.

Wow shocking the baby was there. Hopefully the baby was asleep..

 

[Wrinkles]

Perhaps the baby was with her at the school, but left with someone else immediately after the fact (child care at the gym or a babysitters)?

 

[BeanE]

I'm working on transcribing the video. I'm just paraphrasing the reporter, but I'm transcribing Kaine and Desiree word for word. This will take a little while, so I'm updating the transcription in the post in the Today's News thread as I go along and double check my transcription.

I just posted the first part in Today's News.

 

[RubyRed]

In all the news articles we never once heard anyone say , yes I saw TH and baby K. It was not asked on the list of questions that LE put out for all those at the school to answer.

A red haired woman with a red haired baby would be something that would stand out, and be memorable.

I am thinking the baby was not in the school. Why else has it been kept so quiet and not mentioned?

Perhaps this is why KH and DY exchanged glances and had the long pause , when asked if someone else could be involved along with TH.

I am thinking TH may have had K with her but not in the school, hence the thought of someone else being involved.

 

[trigger]

I still think she could have hurt Kyron. She could have left the baby in the truck asleep. Many babies fall asleep on car rides. Then she could have gone and done what she did, come back, and the baby is still asleep and doesn't know anything bad has happened. I imagine she parked in the shade and had her windows down just so nothing would happen to her if that's the case. Or she was really evil and had the baby girl with her.

I'm just saying just because the baby was with her doesn't mean she didn't do anything to Kyron. The fact that the baby is still alive tells me the only person she wanted to hurt was Kyron, and most likely just didn't do the deed right in front of Baby K.

ITA.The baby was asleep, or hoping she was. I was thinking about the pings which led LE to SI. To bad it had to rain heavy the next day,maybe LE could have gotten tire tracks. Oh my heart just breaks with the maybes, the what if's. Im sure KY is thinking the same, if I only would have gone to the science fair.

Where are you sweetie?

 

[adh74]

Agreed, but if the something that occurred did not appear to be violent in nature, it is quite possible that Baby K, if she did see something, did not recognize it as being traumatizing. If she was physically there, when whatever happened occurred, maybe she could have been sleeping, maybe she was left in her carseat, facing away from the exchange, Kyron could have been given something to make him sleep and was carried to whereever he was taken, the exchange could have been not overly dramatic, so as that she would not have recognized it as being traumatic for her. Any of these things and more could have occurred. Unless the trauma occurred directly to her, the likelihood that she would recognize it as being traumatic, IMO, would be quite a bit lower for a child her age. This is all purely speculation on my part.

I agree with you on all points. The theory that I've held for a week or so now is that TH sold Kyron to pay for the hitman on KH and the "transaction" took place on Sauvie Island. I can see just as many ways that this transaction may have been non-violent, as is could have been very violent. But in the hope of not leaving any forensic evidence of his presence that day, I would lean towards a non-violent transaction. Perhaps he was drugged, as you suggested.

 

[GrainneDhu]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

First question on the video at the bottom of this page. Kaine is asked where baby K was that morning.
This really shocks me. I just can't believe that she would do something to her stepson with her baby there. This is the first thing I have heard that makes me doubt she did this but I really feel strongly that she did. If she harmed him with the baby there then that is just evil and sick. There are no words.

There have been rumours for days that TMH had baby K with her at the science fair. Guess for once the rumours were true.

IF TMH is guilty, then I think having baby K there indicates it was an unplanned, spontaneous event. Like maybe a sudden mood swing into irrational anger about something she thought Kyron did and she shook him too hard or his head hit something as she was shaking him.

I've felt all along that IF it were TMH, then it was an unplanned event, simply because no one can plan on having the sort of luck she had that morning. IF she did it, of course.

The above is strictly my own speculation.

 

[adh74]

In all the news articles we never once heard anyone say , yes I saw TH and baby K. It was not asked on the list of questions that LE put out for all those at the school to answer.

A red haired woman with a red haired baby would be something that would stand out, and be memorable.

I am thinking the baby was not in the school. Why else has it been kept so quiet and not mentioned?

Perhaps this is why KH and DY exchanged glances and had the long pause , when asked if someone else could be involved along with TH.

I am thinking TH may have had K with her but not in the school, hence the thought of someone else being involved.

BBM. Because it was a detail that only those that legitimately saw TH that day would know. It wasn't public knowledge that she had the baby with her. So, when weeding through all those flyer responses, if someone said they saw TH, but didn't mention didn't mention anything about a baby being with her, then they may be lying. If they said "Yeah, I saw her, and she had a baby in a pink stroller with her.", then that gives their testimony more credibility.

 

[Calliope]

I would like someone to give a simple "yes" or "no" to whether a substitute teacher was there viewing the science projects whether she/he was there in the role of a substitute teacher for that particular day of the science fair or not. Could there have been one at the school that day? I could see one coming because the children asked them on a prior day to please come see their projects or just to be supportive. Just because one wasn't being paid in that role for the day doesn't mean one wasn't there. And the students would call them a substitute because that is what they have known them as.

I am in full agreement that since Kyron had been seen earlier at the school he should never have been marked absent. I don't buy that the teacher was confused by squat hollered across a crowded, noisy room especially with the comment that maybe he had gone to get water or such. The marking absent was to cover up that she didn't check up on him. Incompetence at her duties is what it seems to me. That school is not that big. She could have walked to the office to see if he was signed out. Let's get real here; she could have text the office.

Since the school didn't have a policy of calling when kids were absent, then if the teacher took roll and Kyron was absent, then I wouldn't expect her to do anything more.

HOWEVER, if what this boy says happened and the teacher and this group leader noticed Kyron was gone after he'd been present, THEN I have a huge problem with her not investigating further.

 

[ella971]

We will find out soon. LE is on this and i'm sure have more information that we do. Lets have some faith. I do not believe K is alive. I pray to God I'm wrong and I wont give up hope.I have faith that LE will carry on and bring justice. Let us all think positive and pray.

 

[GrainneDhu]

So odd that noone mentioned the baby being with her that day...another puzzling aspect of this maddening case.

SBM

I'm thinking that it is one of the facts that LE deliberately held back so as to assess the accuracy of witness reports.

For instance, if a witness came forward to say "I saw TMH and Kyron at the science fair around 8:30 am" LE could then ask "was anyone else with them?" If the witness said "no, they were walking down the hall alone" then LE would know that the witness's testimony was less credible.

I'm not saying that the witness would have to be lying. The accuracy of memory varies widely from person to person and every human being tends to fill in with information around what they think they remember.

I saw a video experiment done once where they set up a situation with a couple black men walking down a hall past the subjects. Both men were very dark complected and one of them had a single contact lens in that was light blue; the other eye was a normal dark brown. The blue eye was very visible and very startling. One man was carrying an object and the other had his hands free.

About half the time, the witnesses were incorrect in matching which man was carrying the object. Even though the one man had a highly unusual characteristic. Almost every subject recalled that one of the men had a light blue eye but only about half of them could correctly state whether he was the one carrying the object.

 

[loves2bmom]

This is a great video. I also saw more on KPTV last night of a one on one interview. I just got on this morning but has everyone found each of those videos from all the news outlets. I'm so glad they are opening up now and hope their scenario that someone is holding Kyron is right.

I'm also wondering if the baby was dropped off somewhere on the way to the science fair. I agree that I have not heard one report that says anyone saw her that morning.

 

[watchful_eye]

Frankly, nothing surprises me these days. Mothers or fathers murdering their kids, beating them to death, selling their kids, stranger abductions, torture/captivity...you name it. Some people, many people, are horrible, horrible, evil monsters.

Whatever Terri did, if she did, would not shock me in that SHE did it, it would only shock me in that "I cannot believe another baby was murdered."

Sometimes, when I hear cases on the news, and then people are caught, and nothing is done to them, or they get little prison/escape the death penalty, I feel like their is no hope for humanity!

Bah! I hate to be a cynic, but I am burnt out.

 

[heartfortruth]

Did TH drive Kyron to school that morning? Or did he take the bus?

I'm having a hard time establishing that this morning as i have info saying they dropped off his science project and were at school early. Then another saying projects were brought in the day before.. but no real facts that are verified can someone help me out.

Wondering if she met him at school that morning or drove him in. Also while i'm trying to firm up some things do we know how many kids get on/off at that stop. Seeing it is at the bottom of the driveway I'm assuming it is Just Kyron (as my eldest had the same set up when we lived more rural).

I can only imagine what the bus driver was thinking when he/she saw the family waiting in the afternoon but knowing Kyron wasn't on the bus I can only surmise that is the only reason the bus stopped.) But more on task can someone confirm that it was the bus driver who called this into the school at that time. (missing some of my notes )

Thanks

Yes, still so many questions......School / science fair, other kids, teacher, bus.... among them.......the bus driver would know if Kyron rode the bus that morning.....and how regularly he rode it.....to and from ......and did he stop there because he saw the family or were other children getting off at that place, too? Who was usually at the bus stop , both trips? , etc
I have still not seen a good explanation of why more people did NOT say "WHERE'S KYRON?" all day long, and follow up on that !
Can anyone help me out on that? TIA

 

[dimples37398]

I have thought from the beginning that TMH had something to do with Kyron being missing, I do still believe this. I have started thinking that whatever did happen to Kyron, was a spur of the moment thing. After whatever happened, she panicked and started trying to cover her a** and made the story up as it went along that day. Idk maybe she purposely let something as in a bee sting happen, and then didn't seek help. Maybe a bee sting or something like this accidentally happened, and then she came up with the horrid thought of not getting help.

I just know how my children are, and it is hard when the younger one wants to get into the older ones stuff, sometimes they mess things up, sometimes they break things. If it is hard for me to deal with these moments, I can only imagine it would be harder for someone with TMH's potential problems, to deal with these situations. Depending on what was going on in TMH's mind, baby K did seem atleast on the surface to be the apple of her eye...perhaps she was willing to go to any length to protect baby k from her brothers( in TMH's mind atleast).

ETA..

It doesn't surprise me at all though that she had Baby K with her that day.

 

[ClueMeIn]

This is shocking. I think many of us have wondered where the little girl was that morning. For me this is another thing in Terri's favor of her not having done anything to Kyron.

This video is very difficult to watch. What on earth is going on?

For all we know she got out of the car with Kyron, set him up on the bridge, and pushed him into a river. Baby still in the car. Would have taken 2 minutes. Or the baby could have been right there too. This is no way absolves Terri of anything.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I still think she could have hurt Kyron. She could have left the baby in the truck asleep. Many babies fall asleep on car rides. Then she could have gone and done what she did, come back, and the baby is still asleep and doesn't know anything bad has happened. I imagine she parked in the shade and had her windows down just so nothing would happen to her if that's the case.

SBM

As I recall, the weather that day was threatening rain and it was cool enough that children were wearing jackets to school. Probably not much concern about overheating, IF this is what happened.

Also, I think most people and probably most parents know that one of the side effects of children's Benedryl is sleepiness. It's an approved medication for children over one year of age and OTC, no prescription needed.

The above is just my speculation.

 

[tlcya]

Kyron's parents did not comment on the specifics of the investigation, but noticeably paused when asked if they thought someone else might be involved.

"We would like to speculate, but we really can't," Young said.

snipped from http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

If Terri is directly involved I find this reaction to questions about possible accomplice(s) very telling. I think LE suspects Terri and feel there is an accomplice who may or may not still hold Kyron's life in his/her hands. I think that is the reason for all the close to the vest/no one else is in danger/nothin to see here folks atitude presented by LE from day one.

I pray this little boy is found. There is so much info (bad good and indiferent) out there and who knows what is rumor, what is fact, but that snipped portion above at least leads me to believe mom and dad may truly believe Kyron is alive out there somewhere and being held by an accomplice.

ETA The fact that there is confirmation from someone/anyone of baby K's whereabouts that morning is a relief. At least now we can put that one to bed. But if Terri was directly involved in harming/disappearing Kyron, the thought that that sweet little baby may have been present just makes my heart drop into the bottom of my stomach.