Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[Linda7NJ]

People with nothing to hide, hide nothing!

 

[kgeaux]

The zookeepers were quick to mention all the stuff they found in the enclosure that weren't there before. It isn't as if they made this stuff up.

The two brothers are hoods.

They did make up that a shoe was found in the moat. Why not make up other stuff too?

The police would not be able to identify any foreign objects in the enclosure, but the zoo keepers would. I expect that during the trial we will hear testimony about this.

Sling shots? I never mentioned sling shots, that came from elsewhere.

Why wouldn't the police be able to identify foreign objects in the enclosure? If the items in the moat truly could 'not have gotten there by natural means' then that should be obvious to the police. Unless they are extremely stupid.

I'm not sure if you are asking me about sling shots? One of the articles you posted has a quote from a police office saying there were NO sling shots found. But some on the forum prefer to believe hospital workers found sling shots......again that would point to incredible stupidity on the part of police, if they didn't even interview hospital workers, nor look over the young men, their wounds, shoes, possesions, etc.

And what trial? Are you talking about the civil suit the brothers and Sousa family are sure to file?

I'm shocked...truly shocked that they had the b*lls to show up at the funeral.:doh: :banghead:

I have to agree with Buzz, the 2 brothers are hoods.

The mother doesn't seem shocked, she hugs the younger boy and makes a statement that although she hasn't heard what exactly happened, she is giving the brothers time to heal. And she says he was Carlos's brother "no matter what."

If the zoo couldn't even measure a wall and correct it, I don't trust them to actually go in regularly and clean out the moat or area of all debris. To them, if it wasn't inspection time, then they'd probably just say that these things fell there naturally if someone important asked. Now, they are saying the debris is unnatural, but when was the area last cleaned. I doubt if they do it as required, just say they do or document doing it.

Thank you. It should be very easy for police to document what was in the enclosure, what belonged and what didn't. From there, it's just a quick visual scan of the surroundings to see if the objects could have reached the moat area naturally or not.

The stuff they found in the enclosure (pine cones, sticks, rock) couldn't have gotten in there on their own; they had to be thrown into the enclosure. That's what was said when the news first came out.

That was said at the same time they said the wall was 18 feet high. And that a shoe was found in the moat. We know those two things were wrong, Buzz.

 

[kgeaux]

READ THIS BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO:

THIS WOMAN IN THE VIDEO FOUND THIS LION INJURED IN THE FOREST READY TO DIE.
SHE TOOK THE LION WITH HER AND NURSED THE LION BACK TO HEALTH. WHEN THE
LION WAS BETTER SHE MADE ARRANGEMENTS WITH A ZOO TO TAKE THE LION AND GIVE
IT A NEW AND HAPPY HOME.

THIS VIDEO WAS TAKEN WHEN THE WOMAN AFTER SOME TIME WENT TO GO VISIT THE
LION TO SEE HOW HE WAS DOING.
WATCH THE LION'S REACTION WHEN HE SEES HER. AMAZING!!!!!

Turn your speakers on before you start!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYh96USnzY0

That is so amazing.

 

[kgeaux]

I bet he did Buzz. I imagine MG thought it would make his clients look like they have a heart. :doh:

If you get a chance, look at the pictures again and look at the face of the brother hugging the victim's father.
That is not the look of someone sincerely hugging and showing respect to someone...makes me ill.:sick:

That's not one of the brothers who were with Carlos. And he looks like he's crying to me. I'm not sure what you see that looks insincere or disrespectful.

 

[mister happy]

READ THIS BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO:

THIS WOMAN IN THE VIDEO FOUND THIS LION INJURED IN THE FOREST READY TO DIE.
SHE TOOK THE LION WITH HER AND NURSED THE LION BACK TO HEALTH. WHEN THE
LION WAS BETTER SHE MADE ARRANGEMENTS WITH A ZOO TO TAKE THE LION AND GIVE
IT A NEW AND HAPPY HOME.

THIS VIDEO WAS TAKEN WHEN THE WOMAN AFTER SOME TIME WENT TO GO VISIT THE
LION TO SEE HOW HE WAS DOING.
WATCH THE LION'S REACTION WHEN HE SEES HER. AMAZING!!!!!

Turn your speakers on before you start!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYh96USnzY0

Now that's Leo love for ya! I read that the woman rescued the lion from an abusive circus.

 

[browneyes]

OMG, Buzz, that video brought tears to my eyes. What a fantastic bonding it shared with it's rescuer. I wish I could get hugs and kisses like that every day.... oh I do, from both my Rottys. Shhh, don't tell them I got all mushy over a cat video.

Me too! I watched it over and over again....and e-mailed to everyone I know.

Thanks again Buzz!

 

[LinasK]

Now that's Leo love for ya! I read that the woman rescued the lion from an abusive circus.

I think the woman is an idiot. He's still a wild animal and could have been trying to pull her into the cage if that had been his mood (before I get flamed, I understand the lion was being affectionate with her).

 

[LinasK]

And what trial? Are you talking about the civil suit the brothers and Sousa family are sure to file?



The mother doesn't seem shocked, she hugs the younger boy and makes a statement that although she hasn't heard what exactly happened, she is giving the brothers time to heal. And she says he was Carlos's brother "no matter what."

Mrs. Souza has said in the article that she does not intend to file suit, so they are not in lock step. I think she is very naive about the brothers Dhaliwal and their role in her son's death. If it were up to me, they'd be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

 

[philamena]

That's not one of the brothers who were with Carlos. And he looks like he's crying to me. I'm not sure what you see that looks insincere or disrespectful.

If you look at the pictures (from Buzz's link), there is one slide that shows each of the brothers hugging one of Carlos's parents. IMO, the brother hugging Carlos's dad looks anything but sincere or tearful.

kgeaux,
You can defend those 2 boys all day long, but they were caught with an empty Vodka bottle, a sling shot and are not coopperating with LE. That tells me they were up to no good.

To repeat LindaNJ,
Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

 

[mister happy]

I think the woman is an idiot. He's still a wild animal and could have been trying to pull her into the cage if that had been his mood (before I get flamed, I understand the lion was being affectionate with her).

Yes, it does look a bit shocking, and probably not the safest thing to do, but she probably devoted a lot of time and affection to the lion, so they had a bond. She felt safe.

This isn't the first time something like this happened...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr1pWzoLvT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU2EtLHVoiI

 

[Penelope631]

If you look at the pictures (from Buzz's link), there is one slide that shows each of the brothers hugging one of Carlos's parents. IMO, the brother hugging Carlos's dad looks anything but sincere or tearful.

kgeaux,
You can defend those 2 boys all day long, but they were caught with an empty Vodka bottle, a sling shot and are not coopperating with LE. That tells me they were up to no good.

To repeat LindaNJ,
Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Can you please point me to Buzz' link as I cant find it..TIA Philamina

 

[philamena]

Sure, let me find it. I think it's on the previous page.
Here it is. I was mistaken. Buzz didn't post this link... :blushing:

cinsbythesea

They buried Carlos Sousa today and the brothers showed up - here's a link to the article - with pics of the brothers...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNM6UBBS7.DTL

 

[Penelope631]

Sure, let me find it. I think it's on the previous page.
Here it is. I was mistaken. Buzz didn't post this link... :blushing:

thanks for the link here is part of the caption from the photo of the hugging..

Carlos Sousa Sr. (right) hugs Sunny Dhaliwal, another of the survivors' brothers

 

[FlowerChild]

We keep saying "boys" but the picture I saw, the survivors are not "boys", they are MEN.

There is incriminating evidence of SOMETHING on their cell phones - otherwise they would just allow investigators to see the contents. They are fighting the investigation of the attack too hard for them to be innocent of any wrongdoing. If they were truly innocent victims they would be happy for the investigation to have ALL the information, to PROVE they (and Sousa) were 100% innocent victims of an unprovoked attack by an escaped animal that was not properly contained by the Zoo. Geragos keeps SAYING they are innocent victims - all while fighting evidence of their innocence from being reviewed in the investigation. If there was nothing incriminating on the phones they would be thrilled to have it reported to the public - many people are blaming them and the attempt to hide things makes them look guilty - if there was nothing on the phones they'd be releasing the contents ASAP to PROVE the phones held NOTHING.

My Opinion

 

[LinasK]

We keep saying "boys" but the picture I saw, the survivors are not "boys", they are MEN.

There is incriminating evidence of SOMETHING on their cell phones - otherwise they would just allow investigators to check the contents. They are fighting the investigation of the attack too hard for them to be innocent of any wrongdoing. If they were innocent victims they would be happy for the investigation to have ALL the information, to PROVE they (and Sousa) were 100% innocent victims of an unprovoked attack. Geragos keeps

I can't believe I'd ever see the day when I'd actually agree with you on anything!

 

[LionRun]

We keep saying "boys" but the picture I saw, the survivors are not "boys", they are MEN.

There is incriminating evidence of SOMETHING on their cell phones - otherwise they would just allow investigators to see the contents. They are fighting the investigation of the attack too hard for them to be innocent of any wrongdoing. If they were truly innocent victims they would be happy for the investigation to have ALL the information, to PROVE they (and Sousa) were 100% innocent victims of an unprovoked attack by an escaped animal that was not properly contained by the Zoo. Geragos keeps SAYING they are innocent victims - all while fighting evidence of their innocence from being reviewed in the investigation. If there was nothing incriminating on the phones they would be thrilled to have it reported to the public - many people are blaming them and the attempt to hide things makes them look guilty - if there was nothing on the phones they'd be releasing the contents ASAP to PROVE the phones held NOTHING.

My Opinion

I totally agree with your post, FlowerChild.

Lion

 

[philamena]

I absolutely love the Lion hug video. That is one of the sweetest things I've ever seen.

 

[Buzz Mills]

The local chatter:

Herhold: Tiger drama now driven by dollars

Article:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7919873

Comments:
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=mn-comments&tid=25524

 

[kgeaux]

If you look at the pictures (from Buzz's link), there is one slide that shows each of the brothers hugging one of Carlos's parents. IMO, the brother hugging Carlos's dad looks anything but sincere or tearful.

kgeaux,
You can defend those 2 boys all day long, but they were caught with an empty Vodka bottle, a sling shot and are not coopperating with LE. That tells me they were up to no good.

To repeat LindaNJ,
Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

I'm not defending them! I am trying to determine WHAT they did. But I am also of the mind that no matter what they did, the zoo failed to contain its animal.....IOW, NOTHING they did, short of entering the enclosure or opening the door, absolves the zoo of any responsibility. I am aware that an empty vodka bottle was found, and I believe the actions Jennifer Miller describes would support the fact that they had recently consumed the vodka. BUT toxicology reports aren't available yet, so none of us are sure: we just suspect. Even if they WERE drunk, does it matter? Can tigers maul drunk people, and it's ok? Of course not! ( I know you agree with me!) It matters not one whit to me whether they were up to good or no good. The bottom line is and will continue to be, and not just for me, but I suspect for liability purposes also, the zoo failed to contain their animal. And when zoo visitors reported they were injured and being mauled, zoo employees called 911 and reported bloody crazy mental patients on the grounds......

Again, I'm not defending them. But much has been said that was WRONG. No shoe was found in the enclosure. And contrary to what you post about a slingshot being found, they were NOT found with a slingshot! The police deny that very thing. I'm not going to judge these guys on the basis of out and out lies. I'll judge them on what I know is true: so far, that boils down to they were acting like drunk young men and roaring at the lions. They sound like absolutely low-life human beings, and when I read some of the comments left to Carlos at his funeral, I wonder if they were all gang members. BUT the "worthiness" of these guys has little to do with what happened, IMO. I don't believe you can "get what you ask for" if the zoo has taken reasonable and recommended steps to contain their animals. When the reports are finalized about items (whatever they turn out to be) in the moat, and whether the shoe print on the ledge belongs to one of the brothers or to Carlos, then I will add that into my decision making process. But I'm not going to assume that anything coming out of the zoo is truth, because alot of it has been proven to be FALSE.

Thank you for pointing out the slide show. I, of course, have seen it, since I commented on it. The brother who is hugging Carlos's dad is NOT one of the brothers who was at the zoo......the caption explains that. So it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks his facial expression looks like. He looks red and scrunched up to me, much like my adult sons look when they are crying and are horribly embarrassed to cry. But like I said, he wasn't at the zoo, and it doesn't matter WHAT his face looks like: he had nothing to do with the incident.

The slide show also shows a picture or two in which the large slash areas on the brothers' heads are visable, for those of you who thought they weren't injured. The older brother seems to be lucky he wasn't scalped.

 

[kgeaux]

Mrs. Souza has said in the article that she does not intend to file suit, so they are not in lock step. I think she is very naive about the brothers Dhaliwal and their role in her son's death. If it were up to me, they'd be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

If it were up to me, I'd wait for all the evidence to be in before I decided if the brothers were going to be charged with ANYTHING. But I'm a big civil rights defender, so maybe that's just me.

I, too, believe Mrs. Souza is naive. But, at risk of speaking ill of the dead, Carlos and the brothers may have been cut from the same bolt of cloth. I know Carlos doesn't have the record they do, but he was attracted to them and chose them as friends for a reason. His mother likens Paul to a brother! So perhaps she has been naive for a long while, long before the zoo incident.

My post mentioning the possible civil suit (I suspect there will be one, whether the Souza's join in or not) was in response to Buzz's incredible assertation that evidence would "come out at the trial." Since police have repeatedly said they don't have any evidence of taunting, I was wondering what trial Buzz was referencing, and I wondered if perhaps he meant a civil suit.

We keep saying "boys" but the picture I saw, the survivors are not "boys", they are MEN.

There is incriminating evidence of SOMETHING on their cell phones - otherwise they would just allow investigators to see the contents. They are fighting the investigation of the attack too hard for them to be innocent of any wrongdoing. If they were truly innocent victims they would be happy for the investigation to have ALL the information, to PROVE they (and Sousa) were 100% innocent victims of an unprovoked attack by an escaped animal that was not properly contained by the Zoo. Geragos keeps SAYING they are innocent victims - all while fighting evidence of their innocence from being reviewed in the investigation. If there was nothing incriminating on the phones they would be thrilled to have it reported to the public - many people are blaming them and the attempt to hide things makes them look guilty - if there was nothing on the phones they'd be releasing the contents ASAP to PROVE the phones held NOTHING.

My Opinion

I agree that they don't want their phones examined. But I'm not sure why. Pictures and information found on the phones could be VERY incriminating but have nothing to do with Tatiana, ya know? We aren't talking about boy scouts here! I think police are way overstepping their bounds by impounding the car, because whatever they find in the car obviously did not enter the zoo. There's an empty vodka bottle in the car: so what? Unless there is alcohol in their blood, it matters not. And if there IS alcohol in the blood, then the bottle isn't needed. See what I mean?

The local chatter:

Herhold: Tiger drama now driven by dollars

Article:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7919873

Comments:
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=mn-comments&tid=25524

It has been driven by money from the moment it happened. Why do you think the zoo is trying so hard to mitigate their damages?