Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[hockeymom]

How did Paul afford a black mercedes selling kitchen utensils door-to-door?

I didn't know selling Ginsu knives was so lucrative!!

 

[Buzz Mills]

The car with the SFPD is a BMW M3 Sports Coupe with tinted windows. I kinda wondered what kind of jobs these guys had. What would be the Agency that could look into this - IRS?

One of the comments in the Mercury said that the older brother sells kichen utensils, and the commenter said he would have to sell a lot of vegetable peelers to pay for a car like that. These guys are all hoods. The people of San Jose recognize them all too well for what they are. The Eastside of San Jose is loaded with gangs, and illegal immigrants; not at all a safe place to even be driving through at night. I wouldn't even go over there in the daytime

 

[jilly]

One of the comments in the Mercury said that the older brother sells kichen utensils, and the commenter said he would have to sell a lot of vegetable peelers to pay for a car like that. These guys are all hoods. The people of San Jose recognize them all too well for what they are. The Eastside of San Jose is loaded with gangs, and illegal immigrants; not at all a safe place to even be driving through at night. I wouldn't even go over there in the daytime

I believe Paul is the younger of the two Dhaliwals. He's 19 and he's the one selling kitchen utensils and has or had a Mercedes. Kublir is 23 and he owns the BMW (according to the Court Docs). I can easily believe that these guys are "hoods". Thanks for the info on San Jose.

Since you're in the area Buzz - what's Santa Clara like? Now that Geragos has his foot in the door there with this Petition, I'm guessing he'll push for the lawsuit to be heard there. Wonder why he's taking his time on filing this lawsuit?

 

[Buzz Mills]

I believe Paul is the younger of the two Dhaliwals. He's 19 and he's the one selling kitchen utensils and has or had a Mercedes. Kublir is 23 and he owns the BMW (according to the Court Docs). I can easily believe that these guys are "hoods". Thanks for the info on San Jose.

Since you're in the area Buzz - what's Santa Clara like? Now that Geragos has his foot in the door there with this Petition, I'm guessing he'll push for the lawsuit to be heard there. Wonder why he's taking his time on filing this lawsuit?

Jilly, Santa Clara County, Santa Clara Valley, is better known as Siliicon Valley, and/or, the South Bay, at the end of San Francisco Bay, nestled in between the Mt. Hamilton Mountain Range, on the Northeast side, and the Santa Cruz Mountain Range, on the Southwest side. San Jose, city, the county seat, is at the southern end of the valley, and is 15-20 miles across wall-to-wall with people, relatively affluent, with more affluent areas as you go West. To think, a little over a half century ago, this area was mostly all fruit orchards. The eastside is, for the most part, the barrio, made up of largely Hsipanics, and is a high crime area. The Greater Bay Area, which includes San Francisco, contains between 7 and 8 million people. San Jose is about 50 miles east by southeast of San Francisco.

 

[philamena]

Yep, the 2 brothers are real stand up guys.
From the above article posted by Buzz:

"Paul was changing," but they say they didn't know about his escalating criminal record. Last March, according to police reports, he was arrested in the parking lot of In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway for drinking beer and smoking marijuana. In April, he led police on a chase down I-280 at up to 140 mph, then crashed into a tree on a side street. When police tried to handcuff him, he ran, then later tried to convince police he was his brother. He was convicted of reckless driving, driving under the influence and resisting arrest.

 

[JBean]

Yep, the 2 brothers are real stand up guys.
From the above article posted by Buzz:

With a conviction like that ,does anyone know if either of these boys were currently on probation?
When you are on probation you do not have the same rights as those of us not on probation. Cops can stop ,search and seize at any time.

 

[philamena]

I haven't a clue JBean but I'll see if I can find that information. I wonder why those convictions alone didn't cause him to lose his license for a while?

 

[Buzz Mills]

With a conviction like that ,does anyone know if either of these boys were currently on probation?
When you are on probation you do not have the same rights as those of us not on probation. Cops can stop ,search and seize at any time.

I am hoping they will be allowed to present some of thsi character information in court; juries deserve to know who the person is that they are dealing with.

 

[JBean]

I haven't a clue JBean but I'll see if I can find that information. I wonder why those convictions alone didn't cause him to lose his license for a while?

He may have lost it for 6 months and that would be over by now.

I am hoping they will be allowed to present some of thsi character information in court; juries deserve to know who the person is that they are dealing with.

Yeah I know what you mean BUzz. I was just trying to figure out if they were on proabtion becuse then they can search the vehicle. They must not be I guess.

 

[southcitymom]

I am hoping they will be allowed to present some of thsi character information in court; juries deserve to know who the person is that they are dealing with.

Some of it will definitely get in, Buzz. The type of Plaintiff you are dealing with is important in a civil trial.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

There are comments in the "comments" section of the Mercury News article that imply that the brothers were selling drugs. That would explain how they were able to afford a Mercedes and a BMW.

 

[Morag]

Is anyone familiar with what California or San Francisco law says about controlling (domestic) animals? In most locales, if your dog escapes and hurts people or property, you are absolutely liable. It doesn't matter if the person hurt is a nun or a hoodlum, the responsibility is that of the dog owner to control the animal. So how can the character of the victims in this case be important? Unless they climbed into the enclosure, or released the tiger, they were 100% victims, and the zoo is totally liable for failure to control their animals.

Could someone please tell me why the lives and health of these guys should be considered unimportant just because they may/may not have been less than model citizens? And would the fact that the zoo has recently been fined for improper handling of Tatiana be an additional factor pointing to the negligence of the zoo?

Here's an interesting article from Salon about tigers, with an endearing description of how they enjoy observing and interacting with scientists:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/05/tigers/index.html?source=rss&aim=/news/feature

 

[jilly]

With a conviction like that ,does anyone know if either of these boys were currently on probation?
When you are on probation you do not have the same rights as those of us not on probation. Cops can stop ,search and seize at any time.

Which conviction is this? I'm confused. I've read that back in March Paul was arrested for drinking beer and smoking pot at an In and Out Burger place. He was convicted and ordered to attend 10 AA meetings. Can't remember where I read this but this would be part of a probation order wouldn't it?

Then both brothers were arrested in Sept and charged in Oct for being drunk in public and Paul for resisting arrest. This trial (I believe) is set for next Tuesday.

ETA - Found a link:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_7831383?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1

ETA (again)

The above link has now expired and requires one to sign in. Here is a quote from the Contra Costa Times dated Dec 28/07:

Quote: "The Dhaliwal family remained behind closed doors at their San Jose home as reporters gathered outside. Court records indicated Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal have both been arrested on minor offenses this year.

Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen allegedly drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested in charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date."

 

[jilly]

Jilly, Santa Clara County, Santa Clara Valley, is better known as Siliicon Valley, and/or, the South Bay, at the end of San Francisco Bay, nestled in between the Mt. Hamilton Mountain Range, on the Northeast side, and the Santa Cruz Mountain Range, on the Southwest side. San Jose, city, the county seat, is at the southern end of the valley, and is 15-20 miles across wall-to-wall with people, relatively affluent, with more affluent areas as you go West. To think, a little over a half century ago, this area was mostly all fruit orchards. The eastside is, for the most part, the barrio, made up of largely Hsipanics, and is a high crime area. The Greater Bay Area, which includes San Francisco, contains between 7 and 8 million people. San Jose is about 50 miles east by southeast of San Francisco.

Thank you!

 

[Buzz Mills]

San Francisco court moves hearing in tiger-mauling case to San Jose

MAULING CASE : OFFICIALS IN SAN FRANCISCO WANT TO EXAMINE BROTHERS' CAR, CELL PHONE

The Christmas tiger mauling at the San Francisco Zoo played out in three rings Friday, when a court commissioner transferred a key hearing to San Jose, hundreds of people turned out to discuss zoo safety, and new worries were ignited after a snow leopard poked a four-inch hole in a temporary cage.

San Francisco City Attorney's Office and zoo officials told San Francisco Superior Court Commissioner Bruce Chan that they want to examine a cell phone and a car belonging to mauling victims Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal of San Jose. Officials believe the phone and car contain evidence that will show the brothers were intoxicated and taunted the tiger. They are seeking a court order to examine them.

In a decision that dealt a blow to the city attorney's office and the zoo, Chan ruled the request should be decided in Santa Clara County. A hearing on the matter is scheduled for Wednesday before Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Socrates Manoukian. Chan said California law indicates hearings of this type should be heard in the county where the affected parties, in this case, the Dhaliwals, live.

Shepard Kopp, an attorney for the Dhaliwals, who were not present, declared a victory after the 10-minute hearing, saying the brothers simply "want their stuff back." When pressed why the brothers won't allow authorities to examine the property if they are innocent, Kopp replied: "Nothing will come out that is incriminating. . . . The truth will come out. Our clients are not afraid of the truth." Kopp charged the city and zoo are committing "character assassination" of his clients.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_7952717

 

[philamena]

Let's mark our calenders for Wednesday.
This will be one important hearing.
BUZZ,
Thanks for the update.

 

[PJs]

I'll be very interested at what happens on Wednesday

 

[kgeaux]

Did anyone read that filing? Geragos is such a scheming dishonest person. Read pages 16 and 17! Wow.

Well they definitely saw devices in the car that are consistent with catapulting things as well as the alcohol and drug paraphernalia.

One thing for sure..those men do NOT want their cell phones and car searched that is for sure. They are hiding something no doubt.

I'm really intrigued by this court filing. The substance seems to be: We, the city of San Francisco, are gonna get sued, and the people who are going to sue us may have evidence to help us mitigate our damages. #2. The city is not liable anyway. But just in case, we want to preserve evidence that might mitigate our damages. #3. Somebody tried to pick up the car!!! Before the police impounded it!!! OMG!!!! #4. The car will prove they had been drinking and smoking pot. And some stuff in the car, stuff which never entered the zoo, will prove they pelted the tiger.


What is so intriguing to me is that there is no language in the filing to suggest that anyone dangled themselves into the enclosure or gave the tiger 'a leg up' in any fashion, suggesting that at most these guys threw things at the tiger. And the city seems to believe that will be enough to mitigate its damages? Or that it will matter that the guys were drunk, smoking pot, or whatever?

I think what matters here is that the tiger got out of her enclosure. Unaided.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm really intrigued by this court filing. The substance seems to be: We, the city of San Francisco, are gonna get sued, and the people who are going to sue us may have evidence to help us mitigate our damages. #2. The city is not liable anyway. But just in case, we want to preserve evidence that might mitigate our damages. #3. Somebody tried to pick up the car!!! Before the police impounded it!!! OMG!!!! #4. The car will prove they had been drinking and smoking pot. And some stuff in the car, stuff which never entered the zoo, will prove they pelted the tiger.


What is so intriguing to me is that there is no language in the filing to suggest that anyone dangled themselves into the enclosure or gave the tiger 'a leg up' in any fashion, suggesting that at most these guys threw things at the tiger. And the city seems to believe that will be enough to mitigate its damages? Or that it will matter that the guys were drunk, smoking pot, or whatever?

I think what matters here is that the tiger got out of her enclosure. Unaided.

This is, of course, the major issue.

But the reality is that in civil trials, Defendants and their insurers pay more money for the lives and trials of "good" Plaintiffs (church going, hard-working men and women with families) than "bad" Plaintiffs (drug dealing gang members).

Also, of course, if the zoo could proove that these boys violently incited the tiger, further mitigation would occur to the amount of damages they are going to pay.

At this point, the zoo's best hope is to have "bad" Plaintiffs that incited the tiger - so they'll spin, spin, spin that angle until the time of trial. While there is currently sufficient evidence to label these two brothers "bad" Plaintiffs - I've seen no evidence that leads me to reasonable believe they taunted the tiger in any real way (ie - more than a stone, drunken "growl").

 

[LinasK]

I'm really intrigued by this court filing. The substance seems to be: We, the city of San Francisco, are gonna get sued, and the people who are going to sue us may have evidence to help us mitigate our damages. #2. The city is not liable anyway. But just in case, we want to preserve evidence that might mitigate our damages. #3. Somebody tried to pick up the car!!! Before the police impounded it!!! OMG!!!! #4. The car will prove they had been drinking and smoking pot. And some stuff in the car, stuff which never entered the zoo, will prove they pelted the tiger.


What is so intriguing to me is that there is no language in the filing to suggest that anyone dangled themselves into the enclosure or gave the tiger 'a leg up' in any fashion, suggesting that at most these guys threw things at the tiger. And the city seems to believe that will be enough to mitigate its damages? Or that it will matter that the guys were drunk, smoking pot, or whatever?

I think what matters here is that the tiger got out of her enclosure. Unaided.

What I gathered from the filing is that there is evidence at least in the car- at minimum is an open container of Vodka, they may also have seen slingshots and are playing it close to the vest. The vodka is important for more than one reason- they can be charged with violating open container laws, then there's public drunkenness. They have a witness who saw them verbally taunting the lions.
Moreover, in a civil trial, they are supposed to get this evidence anyhow in the discovery phase, so they want to make sure the brothers D don't destroy it. There may also be pictures on the cell phones of them throwing things at the tiger and they may also want to see who and when 911 was called from their phone logs.
We don't know that the tiger escaped unaided, there was no security camera there.