Tommy describes attack

[Melanie]

Also, in this version there is no black bag?

An earlier version quoted misty as saying she had her head under the covers with Jr. and Haleigh was on the couch with the perps. But from the angle of the bed, she would have to be Superman and see through the wall. I didn't buy that story, and this one is hinky too.

If the story were true, what time did this all go down. I'd like to know the timeframe between the "kidnapping" and the 911 call.

Best,

Mel

ETA: I think we can talk about Art Harris here. This is what he offered up on his web site:

“She was scared and dove under the covers with Ronald, Jr to hide,” he said.
Fields also tells us that Misty recalls Overstreet take Haleigh from Ronald Cummings trailer in “some kind of black bag. She’s not sure if it was a garbage bag, or a suitcase. She just peaked from under the covers and saw that much.”

The next thing she heard was “a door slamming” that sounded like the van her brother, Tommy, drove, he says.

Again, I beg to question how she saw anything from her vantage point, and a peek out from under the covers.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I don't understand how both Misty's attorney and Tommy's attorney can relate their client's bizarre tale of "Joe went to steal a machine gun and decided to kill a child instead" with straight faces to the media. After all the lies that have been told by these two, how can a reasonable mind be expected to believe something this irrational?

While Fields has been a little more low profile, Werter has teed it up on JVM and NG numerous times. Does he think he's going to create some type of public groundswell of support that will benefit his client with this tale?

If their client's story is the truth, what's their problem with passing a polygraph? Strap them up, and if true, there would likely be support generated. If not, they're only making matters worse and silence becomes the better alternative.

 

[Emeralgem]

An earlier version quoted misty as saying she had her head under the covers with Jr. and Haleigh was on the couch with the perps. But from the angle of the bed, she would have to be Superman and see through the wall. I didn't buy that story, and this one is hinky too.

If the story were true, what time did this all go down. I'd like to know the timeframe between the "kidnapping" and the 911 call. Best,

Mel

ETA: I think we can talk about Art Harris here. This is what he offered up on his web site:

“She was scared and dove under the covers with Ronald, Jr to hide,” he said.
Fields also tells us that Misty recalls Overstreet take Haleigh from Ronald Cummings trailer in “some kind of black bag. She’s not sure if it was a garbage bag, or a suitcase. She just peaked from under the covers and saw that much.”

The next thing she heard was “a door slamming” that sounded like the van her brother, Tommy, drove, he says.

Again, I beg to question how she saw anything from her vantage point, and a peek out from under the covers.

In the first place she couldn't have...
Now to attempt to answer your question in regards to the timeframe of the alleged kidnapping and the 911 call..and when did this ALL go down


IMHO.. I suspect whatever initially happened occured not too long after Haleigh got off that school bus..And I suspect before Ronald Cummings ever went in to work..
I feel somewhat certain he showed up at his place of employment sometime before GGMS stated she saw Haleigh alive and well on the front porch eating dinner that night which she claims was sometime between 7:00 pm and 8:00 pm.. I also suspect she put that story out to provide her grandson with an alibi eventhough it didn't come out that she was there until around 11 days after Haleigh was reported missing..Miisty never stated in the beginning GGMS came by that night..She just named Tommy, her nephews, niece and the ac man as those who were there at the MH that afternoon...

I'm thinking whatever happened occurred before 7:00 pm on the 9th and since the 911 call wasn't made until 3:27 am on the 10th, in all reality they had over eight hours to plan a coverup, clean up, stage a kidnapping scene and dispose of Haleigh's body before 911 was ever called...JMHO

EDIT..Let me please add this is just my perspective on what I believe is the case concerning the timeliine..

 

[dodie20]

I don't understand how both Misty's attorney and Tommy's attorney can relate their client's bizarre tale of "Joe went to steal a machine gun and decided to kill a child instead" with straight faces to the media. After all the lies that have been told by these two, how can a reasonable mind be expected to believe something this irrational?

While Fields has been a little more low profile, Werter has teed it up on JVM and NG numerous times. Does he think he's going to create some type of public groundswell of support that will benefit his client with this tale?

If their client's story is the truth, what's their problem with passing a polygraph? Strap them up, and if true, there would likely be support generated. If not, they're only making matters worse and silence becomes the better alternative.

legally speaking, they DO need to shut up. Joe's not talking & look where he is. 'Skinny & happy' in Tennessee. Timmy's not talking & look where he is. in Mass. shaking in his boots maybe, but not in jail. Ron hasn't talked in over a year & look where he is. Jail, yes, but sitting pretty with a sweet deal. but these 2 just go on & on & on & on & on........................

 

[1Chump]

The part about this story that makes me wonder if at least SOME of it is true is that during the 911 call, Ron was sure someone "stole" Haleigh. I can't get rid of that. And I want to see Misty arrested for obstruction of justice if this is even true at all.

P.S. A link would be nice in here too.

Funny how two people see it completely opposite. That is the exact reason I do not believe this story. The first time we heard it was during the 911 call when Ron said "stole."

The "story" is that Misty woke up and found Haleigh missing. Ron told it...TN told it....Misty told it. Misty NEVER saw anyone "steal" Haleigh.

IMO, for Ron to say someone "stole" Haleigh, Misty would have had to tell Ron before the 911 call. Because both Ron and TN were too sure Haleigh had not wondered off. Anyone who found their child missing in the middle of the night, even if they KNEW that child was terrified of the dark, would not give up HOPE so quickly that the child for some reason wandered off or hid and feel asleep. Because those are the best case scenarios with the child being found. Ron and TN immediately went to the worse case scenario that someone took Haleigh to the point that they NEVER LOOKED around the MH. IMO, that could only be explained by Misty tellling them she saw someone take Haleigh.

IMO, if Misty admitted she saw someone take Haleigh, Ron would have beat it out of her to find out who. If she did not know, Ron would have told LE. But no one told LE that Misty saw anyone.

However, it would be explained if Misty told Ron who and Ron decided to cover it up because Ron wanted to handle it himself. I could then understand the "cover-up." Except Ron NEVER did go after Joe or Tommy. Ron NEVER looked for anyone who stole his daughter.

IMO, Ron saying "stole" in the 911 call, was part of the script. I thought it at the time I heard the tape. The story now just confirms that they had a script. Haleigh was kidnapped and if LE starts looking too close to home....start throwing Joe's name out there....just like it has happened.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I deliberately left out the hit with a chunk of wood, the cinder blocks, the rope, the 'woke up and Haliegh was gone', the bricked open door,the 'I was washing blankets', the machine gun, the 'Jo didn't do it ...I dreamed it', the 'I was influenced by others' details because my mind just couldn't take anymore. LOL!:burn:

I just want to know 'where is Haleigh?' and 'who made her disappear?' :banghead:

Let's not forget the: "I'm only a 16 year old girl." ugh!:sick:

 

[Concerned Papa]

~Respectfully Snipped~

“She was scared and dove under the covers with Ronald, Jr to hide,” he said.
Fields also tells us that Misty recalls Overstreet take Haleigh from Ronald Cummings trailer in “some kind of black bag. She’s not sure if it was a garbage bag, or a suitcase. She just peaked from under the covers and saw that much.”

The next thing she heard was “a door slamming” that sounded like the van her brother, Tommy, drove, he says.

But...but...but Art, are you saying Fields didn't tell you about her hearing the house door open and close so many times?

As Croslin again hid under the covers with Ronald Jr., she said she heard the house door open and close several times, then the sliding door on a van opened and closed.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=163441&catid=3

Gosh, I hope it wasn't anything I said!

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.08.17 - Croslin says she heard Haleigh Cummings attack

 

[Nonni Brenda]

In the first place she couldn't have...
Now to attempt to answer your question in regards to the timeframe of the alleged kidnapping and the 911 call..and when did this ALL go down


IMHO.. I suspect whatever initially happened occured not too long after Haleigh got off that school bus..And I suspect before Ronald Cummings ever went in to work..
I feel somewhat certain he showed up at his place of employment sometime before GGMS stated she saw Haleigh alive and well on the front porch eating dinner that night which she claims was sometime between 7:00 pm and 8:00 pm.. I also suspect she put that story out to provide her grandson with an alibi eventhough it didn't come out that she was there until around 11 days after Haleigh was reported missing..Miisty never stated in the beginning GGMS came by that night..She just named Tommy, her nephews, niece and the ac man as those who were there at the MH that afternoon...

I'm thinking whatever happened occurred before 7:00 pm on the 9th and since the 911 call wasn't made until 3:27 am on the 10th, in all reality they had over eight hours to plan a coverup, clean up, stage a kidnapping scene and dispose of Haleigh's body before 911 was ever called...JMHO

EDIT..Let me please add this is just my perspective on what I believe is the case concerning the timeliine..

I wonder if LE questioned her nephews a niece? Anyone know?

 

[seeking truth]

In this story, I think Joe = Ron.

Ron's statement says it all...."I'd give my life for my child's life back". He KNEW from the start what happened.

JMO

I'm in total agreement with you there, watchinginky.

For someone who truly, and most definitely, believes that Ronald Cummings is the perpetrator of the crime against HaLeigh, and who also thinks that many others, both in and out of LE believe the same thing, it definitely DOES seem likely that all the Joe O. talk over the months has been an agreed upon tactic; LE, attorneys, and the Croslins substituting JO for rc.

Keeping this volatile, revengeful criminal and his family in the dark seems the wisest way to go at this point. Their egos and sense of power over others ( mostly the Croslin family) would appear to keep them (Ron, Teresa, Annette) from thinking and believing that they are in any way suspects; though deep down they just have to know they are. Don't they, or are they really that arrogant and ... dumb?

My OPINION, and just an opinion, 'cuz that's all i have ~ besides a little, tiny bit of experience with human beings and the aberrant behavior that some of our species are capable of.

 

[Concerned Papa]

While we're on the subject of doors, LOL, I noticed this at another AH article:

From where she says she was hiding, Misty has told investigators she heard Haleigh scream, then a house door slam, then a car door that sounded like the mini van her brother drove.

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/20/exclusive-misty-croslin-i-would-have-shot-joe/#more-4625

So as Haleigh was carried out, the house door was slammed SHUT?

Uhhh....why was the back door standing WIDE OPEN and the screen door propped open with a block right after she seen a 3?

 

[dodie20]

Funny how two people see it completely opposite. That is the exact reason I do not believe this story. The first time we heard it was during the 911 call when Ron said "stole."

The "story" is that Misty woke up and found Haleigh missing. Ron told it...TN told it....Misty told it. Misty NEVER saw anyone "steal" Haleigh.

IMO, for Ron to say someone "stole" Haleigh, Misty would have had to tell Ron before the 911 call. Because both Ron and TN were too sure Haleigh had not wondered off. Anyone who found their child missing in the middle of the night, even if they KNEW that child was terrified of the dark, would not give up HOPE so quickly that the child for some reason wandered off or hid and feel asleep. Because those are the best case scenarios with the child being found. Ron and TN immediately went to the worse case scenario that someone took Haleigh to the point that they NEVER LOOKED around the MH. IMO, that could only be explained by Misty tellling them she saw someone take Haleigh.

IMO, if Misty admitted she saw someone take Haleigh, Ron would have beat it out of her to find out who. If she did not know, Ron would have told LE. But no one told LE that Misty saw anyone.

However, it would be explained if Misty told Ron who and Ron decided to cover it up because Ron wanted to handle it himself. I could then understand the "cover-up." Except Ron NEVER did go after Joe or Tommy. Ron NEVER looked for anyone who stole his daughter.

IMO, Ron saying "stole" in the 911 call, was part of the script. I thought it at the time I heard the tape. The story now just confirms that they had a script. Haleigh was kidnapped and if LE starts looking too close to home....start throwing Joe's name out there....just like it has happened.

I agree with a lot of your post, but now that it is being insinuated through Kim P? that Ron's work hours are in question, I think Misty may have called him early in his shift, told him what happened, (or lied-who knows), he went home to 'clean' up, called his mom, & then went back to work, then went home & had Misty call 911. maybe the original intent was for her to call before he got back home? but she chickened out? maybe it was she who made that 1st reported call? IDK, but Ron knowing sooner, going home, & calling his mom, sure would explain a lot of the mysteries... like Misty just coincidentally meeting him at the door, TN arriving so soon & prepared with Haleigh's picture, Misty sticking to a script, (but not doing very well), Ron not entertaing the idea of Haleigh wandering off, him knowing that she was wearing her shoes, Ron blaming Misty for letting it happen, so many things...Actually, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that these people would never call 911, before taking care of a few priorities. I don't see it in Ron's nature, to call for help, & let the chips fall where they may, as far as drugs, guns, whatever being found in the house. wasted hours, IMO. & let me add this...Ron must have told LE something big that incriminated himself, or he would've told them from the get go...something worthy of those dropped charges. & I think this is a possibility, or something just as big.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Have not read the whole thread not sure if this has been posted yet. I will assume Art will be discussing this tonight on NG.

Exclusive: Arm Seen Around Haleigh Cummings?

"Snip"

By Art Harris, The Bald Truth, © www.artharris.com, all rights reserved

The Bald Truth has now learned that Tommy elaborated he actually saw Joe O. holding Haleigh “with his arm around her chest” inside the bedroom of the trailer Feb. 9, 2009.

He claims Haleigh wasn’t moving, that she appeared limp as a ragdoll. James Werter, says Croslin came clean with the details in April, when he told investigators he drove to the trailer with Overstreet—who denies any involvement in the missing child —to “borrow” a machine gun Ronald showed off one night over beer.

“Joe picked up Tommy from his house to borrow the gun to shoot deer at night,” Werter tells The Bald Truth. “He sat on the couch while Joe looked for it.”

When he couldn’t find it because Ronald had taken all the guns out of the house, Misty says “Joe went crazy,” her lawyer told me, pulled out his knife, threatened and sexually groped her, and warned he’d kill her and her family if she told.

She’s also told investigators she heard Haleigh screaming after Joe grabbed her and she dove under the covers and held her little brother tight.

Steve Brown, a former FBI agent, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth said Thats what prompted him to get up off the couch in the living room and “look around the corner” into the bedroom.

“That’s when he saw Joe holding Haleigh with his arm around her chest,” Brown told me. “She wasn’t moving then, and she wasn’t moving (later) when he looked over his shoulder after Overstreet put her in the van and she was lying in the back.”

Read the rest of the Article here: http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/22/exclusive-tommy-croslin-haleigh-died-in-trailer/

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I don't understand how both Misty's attorney and Tommy's attorney can relate their client's bizarre tale of "Joe went to steal a machine gun and decided to kill a child instead" with straight faces to the media. After all the lies that have been told by these two, how can a reasonable mind be expected to believe something this irrational?

While Fields has been a little more low profile, Werter has teed it up on JVM and NG numerous times. Does he think he's going to create some type of public groundswell of support that will benefit his client with this tale?

If their client's story is the truth, what's their problem with passing a polygraph? Strap them up, and if true, there would likely be support generated. If not, they're only making matters worse and silence becomes the better alternative.

I have been wondering the same things and the only two reasons I can come up with are 1. LE wants them out there talking so that Ron feels comfortable that he is in the clear and that the Joe did it story is going to fly.
Or 2. Maybe Misty and Tommy have told LE this story and some and LE is just not buying it so the lawyers are off on a rampage.
I would go with number 1. LE can't be so blind...from day one I felt Ronald either knew what happen to Haleigh or was the POI and if LE does not see that then something fishy going on in PC IMO. :cow:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does heard noise equate to hearing gun went off?

Does seeing Jo with arms around Haleigh's waist equate to Jo strangled her?

Thrown in the back of the van.. Someone forgot to mention the black bag.. When did that happen?

Was she put in the back of the van first and then put in the bag later..
I recall Tommy said.... she looked like she was just sleeping ..

It is quite common for two people to remember events differently.

imo

 

[Coldpizza]

Passionflower. Good question about Ron's reaction to the gun. I have some thoughts on that. The gun was probably stolen to begin with and illegal because it was not registered. Any information about the gun in his possesion would put Ron in legal jeopardy. To me the gun figures into the story as something Ron promised Jo as payment in a drug deal. That's one of the other reasons Ron would remain silent about the gun.
I believe Ron would hide facts about the gun from LE in order not to be arrested, it would be a federal charge, but less concerned about solving what happened to his daughter. I see Ron as that kind of parent. jmo

I agree about the gun. It could have been used in prior crimes including gang related instances, murder included. I'm just speculating here, but if that gun was used and sold for drugs just PRIOR to Haleigh gone missing and RC acquired that gun in exchange for drugs and was in the midst of a huge drug deal (gone bad) it is possible Haleigh got caught up in the mix of that deal.

It's a speculation based on speculation based on innuendo! (not you AZ) If that makes sense after this sordid case.

Where are you Haleigh?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have been wondering the same things and the only two reasons I can come up with are 1. LE wants them out there talking so that Ron feels comfortable that he is in the clear and that the Joe did it story is going to fly. Or 2. Maybe Misty and Tommy have told LE this story and some and LE is just not buying it so the lawyers are off on a rampage.
I would go with number 1. LE can't be so blind...from day one I felt Ronald either knew what happen to Haleigh or was the POI and if LE does not see that then something fishy going on in PC IMO. :cow:

I think LE wants it wanting it out there so Joe will know they haven't forgotten about him for one second.

Imo, Ron had nothing to do with this.

imo

 

[lonetraveler]

tlcox, thank you bunches..

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2010...icious-attack/

Breaking rpt: Tommy Croslin saw cousin's arm around Haleigh


I don't know about anyone else, but IF I heard a noise and didn't know what happened and then saw someone with their arms around someone, my first thought would be they were trying to help them..
Not too much though IF they just threw them in the back of the van/car.. Unless they were trying to get them to the nearest hospital..JMHO

The van is right smack dab in the middle of the major story here and yet LE took the van and processed it for quiet a while but then returned it without arresting anyone. Same with Ron's MH, LE investigated it then turned it back over to Ron, with no arrests. It looks like if a dead Haleigh was thrown into the back of the van that there would have been enough evidence along with this "major" story that an arrest would have occurred. This case is beginning to look like a "Joran van der Sloot" story with all the lying and confessing and still no arrest for Natalie. I keep waiting for the "deer blood in the van" story to come back up.

 

[dodie20]

I think LE wants it wanting it out there so Joe will know they haven't forgotten about him for one second.

Imo, Ron had nothing to do with this.

imo

I think LE has put together a solid chain of events, knows pretty much what happened, but is still unsure on some things, & they don't mind Joe hearing his name associated with this case... hoping he'll get nervous & come to talk, maybe? When Joe was recently arrested, I was a little surprised to hear Gmaw Flo, (I know, I know, lol), state that 'somebody' in LE called HER & asked for her take. Now that would indicate, to me anyway, that LE isn't keeping real close tabs on Joe, but I do realize that that that 'somebody' could've been a reporter, a Cummings, a Croslin, or just some nut, posing as a cop. But regardless, I think we're all gonna hear something, real soon. This case seems to have picked up tempo, & I don't really see it slacking back off. especially after hearing about Ron's deal. That IMO, says LE is moving forward, & there won't be any turning back. MOO.

 

[krkrjx]

Have not read the whole thread not sure if this has been posted yet. I will assume Art will be discussing this tonight on NG.

Quote:
Exclusive: Arm Seen Around Haleigh Cummings?

"Snip"

By Art Harris, The Bald Truth, © www.artharris.com, all rights reserved

The Bald Truth has now learned that Tommy elaborated he actually saw Joe O. holding Haleigh “with his arm around her chest” inside the bedroom of the trailer Feb. 9, 2009.

He claims Haleigh wasn’t moving, that she appeared limp as a ragdoll. James Werter, says Croslin came clean with the details in April, when he told investigators he drove to the trailer with Overstreet—who denies any involvement in the missing child —to “borrow” a machine gun Ronald showed off one night over beer.

“Joe picked up Tommy from his house to borrow the gun to shoot deer at night,” Werter tells The Bald Truth. “He sat on the couch while Joe looked for it.”

When he couldn’t find it because Ronald had taken all the guns out of the house, Misty says “Joe went crazy,” her lawyer told me, pulled out his knife, threatened and sexually groped her, and warned he’d kill her and her family if she told.

She’s also told investigators she heard Haleigh screaming after Joe grabbed her and she dove under the covers and held her little brother tight.

Steve Brown, a former FBI agent, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth said Thats what prompted him to get up off the couch in the living room and “look around the corner” into the bedroom.

“That’s when he saw Joe holding Haleigh with his arm around her chest,” Brown told me. “She wasn’t moving then, and she wasn’t moving (later) when he looked over his shoulder after Overstreet put her in the van and she was lying in the back.”

-------------
Hmmmm....no black bag mentioned in this version either. Amazing how Tommy chose to sneak peeks around corners and over his shoulder, when he could have used those few seconds that he was not being threatened by JO to run as fast as he could to pound on doors screaming for help--or even hightail it back to his Tyler Street home to call 911 to report a crime in progress.

Misty hid and let JO do whatever he wanted. Tommy sat on the couch and let JO do whatever he wanted. Misty reportedly came out from hiding after she heard the MH door close and the van drive away. She, too, never ran out to pound on doors for help, or to the nearest phone to call 911. :furious:

Also, this latest Tommy-tale as relayed by James Werter claims "they went to the MH to 'borrow' a gun." Unfortunately for his client, Mr. Werter had previously publicly stated that his client had admitted that they went there to steal a gun.

Yes, Mr. Werter, you have erred big time, which is obviously why you chose to change steal to borrow. Borrowing a gun is not a crime, but stealing a gun is. And a death that occurs during the commission of another crime could mean a felony murder charge for all involved, including your client--even if he did nothing more than sit on the couch.

ETA: Just want to add that I do not believe the story regardless of how many ways they choose to tell it.

 

[passionflower]

Why was Haleigh the victim? What did she see or say?
Why was JR. not harmed in all of this?

Thank GOD he slept through most of this.........(man in black, squeeky shoes, boucing couch.
IMO, if someone wanted to get even with RC ..........they would take, hurt JR, boy child.
Will we ever know the truth.
I pray LE gets ALL the pieces to this crime! JMOO