UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #11

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  • #61
I think id criticise the police in the first phase for the same reason as Claudius mother....even though were coming at it from different angles.
it seemed they wouldn't be budged from the idea that it concerned nothing but Claudius love life and that shed been abducted on the way to work.
obviously, her mother would prefer to believe it was a random attack, but the criticism is still the. same....their focus was too narrow ...they really should have kept more of an open mind
 
  • #62
You see even her mother had no respect towards the police at least in the first few years .

To be honest parts of her life must have been incredibly difficult to investigate I cannot put it any more clearer than Gerard Tubb who says in this article

Claudia Lawrence Mystery Has Dark Undercurrents
The article points out that the police did not know what they were walking into: Claudia apparently lived a significant part of her life in secret.


Claudia Lawrence Mystery Has Dark Undercurrents

In my opinion as uncomfortable as it might be we will not come anywhere near understanding just what happened to Claudia until the darker side of the parts of her life which were led in secret can be spoken about openly.

MOO
 
  • #63
yes, id go along with that...I assume tubb has. told the police what he knows....asn it has not yet been proved that she is dead, could anything be said about the. nature of these activities or could the police be sued...could they hedge their statements around with maybes and. it could bes...could they protect tubb.

although they may not have known what they. were walking into, it seems as though the drugs side of their police force were keeping watch on the nags.

I know drugs are horrible, but would that be enough, by. itself, to constitute a dark side....dont think were talking about selling a bit of marijuana here
 
  • #64
To be honest parts of her life must have been incredibly difficult to investigate I cannot put it any more clearer than Gerard Tubb who says in this article

Claudia Lawrence Mystery Has Dark Undercurrents
The article points out that the police did not know what they were walking into: Claudia apparently lived a significant part of her life in secret.


Claudia Lawrence Mystery Has Dark Undercurrents

In my opinion as uncomfortable as it might be we will not come anywhere near understanding just what happened to Claudia until the darker side of the parts of her life which were led in secret can be spoken about openly.

MOO
Gerrard Tub did say he thought the police did not know what they were getting into but it does not mean he knew either.
I think she kept things as private as possible so not to perhaps embarrass her dad’s carrier or her mother’s chance of being a mayor.
She liked her drink but she was also hard working.
I think both police and family advised one and all not to say too much.
Hence the silence and the fact police often suspect innocent witness so keep your mouth shut mate !’
And this country is / was becoming Sue crazy like the USA
Imo
 
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  • #65
Gerrard Tub did say he thought the police did not know what they were getting into but it does not mean he knew either.
I think she kept things as private as possible so not to perhaps embarrass her dad’s carrier or her mother’s chance of being a mayor.
She liked her drink but she was also hard working.
I think both police and family advised one and all not to say too much.
Hence the silence and the fact police often suspect innocent witness so keep your mouth shut mate !’
And this country is / was becoming Sue crazy like the USA
Imo

Not say too much about what PJ?
 
  • #66
Not say too much about what PJ?
About Claudia !
Galloway complained ...very early on in the investigation...that people were putting out information before / without even telling the police first !
Her Facebook page became too successful if that was possible.
 
  • #67
About Claudia !
Galloway complained ...very early on in the investigation...that people were putting out information before / without even telling the police first !
Her Facebook page became too successful if that was possible.

And just what were these people saying about Claudia PJ?
 
  • #68
And just what were these people saying about Claudia PJ?

The police at the time did not specify which info they were reading about for the first time!
And told people to go to them first !
I would have thought this would be obvious.
But I’m guessing people’s experience of the police comes from watching Law and Order on tv.
You know it always makes me laugh: “ oh it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack... we’ll never find him...hmm what’s that? He’s been located downtown? We’re on our way !”
 
  • #69
well, I dont think that gt is hinting at affairs with married men etc., but something much worse....weve got a right to comment on what he said....and people can agree or disagree with his opinion.

just want to row back on something ive said....the fact that some people didn't cooperate with the police doesn't mean they weren't forced to turn up at the police station...they maybe didn't cooperate when they were there
 
  • #70
I’m sure more than one person know what happened to her and may have helped clean up etc but the fact remains they all just got lucky.

This David Oxen chap may well feel he doesn’t need to comment because frankly it was so long ago now that it’s pointless him defending himself, especially if he knows he is completely innocent.

What was said in the early days on her Facebook missing person site?!

I don’t think I’ll ever be convinced drugs were involved until someone actually shows some concrete evidence of that not just baseless rumour ...
 
  • #71
  • #72
I agree with both your points, af, both that the perp or perps have been very lucky and that do probably doesn't feel he needs to defend himself....but I do think the whole thing was planned and I dont think you'd agree to put your neck on the line for someone in this way unless they were important or there was something important at stake
 
  • #73
Yes planned perhaps but still lucky. I think everyone on here should read the concluding explanation to the article I’ve just posted it’s very hard to disagree with.

Clearly JK partner is one of the nags 4 they tried to prosecute. If he’s involved he’s got the perfect cover, hiding in plain site. People are hardly going to suspect the partner of one of her best friends who speaks candidly in the media about wanting her to be found...
 
  • #74
af...i dont see why this article rules out drugs....on one hand, the author seems to think it was carefully planned and then goes on to talk about alley man blundering about.

one thing is clear...although the perp may have been lucky, it was a very efficient clean up operation...so I. return to my original argument...somebody. important or wealthy enough to pay for professionals, or connected to a group of people who were used to doing this kind of thing.

drugs are just the most obvious connection...but it could. have been something else...someone mentioned. they'd heard. rumours about sex films way back when...im not saying thats correct but its that kind of thing...as ive said, the only purely ex lover scenario I can. think of is someone wealthy and outwardly respectable c was threatening to expose.

I find the articles comment that. Claudius reason for wanting to take a holiday was because of a stalker very strange...I dont know why we should assume. this and, for me, this makes the whole article a bit dubious
 
  • #75
Different interpretations I guess. It doesn’t have to be anyone wealthy to pay for professionals it was just those 4 who as friends made a pact to never say anything. People are chasing shadows where there aren’t any
 
  • #76
yes, well have to agree to disagree on that one...as ive said before, nothing is impossible.

but I think, that if it was planned, the remaining 3...for example...would have been very reluctant to take all those risks because the other one had been cheated on.

and if it wasn't planned, well, even if they got lucky, I really dont think it could have been done with the speed and efficiency it was.

but you never know......it doesn't have to be anyone wealthy...just someone they're frightened of
 
  • #77
gt is a respected journalist....he wouldn't speculate on these things if he wasn't pretty. sure....and I can't see one of the 4 threatening him or doing something to him when they're the ones the police have in their sights
 
  • #78
Yes planned perhaps but still lucky. I think everyone on here should read the concluding explanation to the article I’ve just posted it’s very hard to disagree with.

Clearly JK partner is one of the nags 4 they tried to prosecute. If he’s involved he’s got the perfect cover, hiding in plain site. People are hardly going to suspect the partner of one of her best friends who speaks candidly in the media about wanting her to be found...
Can you please tell us in your own words what the conclusion is because my internet provider keeps telling me not to click on it because of a virus Thank you
 
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  • #79
Yes I had a similar problem first time opening the article. It is as follows...

We, the public, will probably never know exactly what is sitting in the police files in North Yorkshire HQ, but we would imagine they make fascinating reading. Having spoken to those familiar with the case, officers clearly have more information and evidence than they are letting on.

In summary, based upon the material gathered during this cold case review, we can only theorise some of the following to those looking for an answer. Ignore the salacious conspiracy theories, this case is much clearer cut than it would first appear.

Claudia was an attractive woman who spent many nights of the week drinking and socialising with older men; it is highly likely her killer was known to her. It is also very probable that her killer was motivated by extreme jealousy, or the rage of unrequited love.

Her killer was able to commit the crime and cover it up without being noticed, this suggests to us that he was likely self-employed and therefore able to spend time away from his place of work and free from the watching eye of his superiors. Several of those suspected of being involved were self-employed and ran their own companies.

We also believe she was killed by a single individual and that his crime was then covered up by friends and family members who protected the perpetrator.

North Yorkshire Police have gathered an extensive file of evidence against certain suspects, we have learned that this includes mobile phone data, eyewitness testimonies, satnav activity and an alleged ‘confession’ among other elements.

However, a lack of body or confirmed crime scene have made it hard for officers to press charges. Crucially, key suspects have also been given alibis by partners and loved ones who have given statements saying to the effect of ‘they never left the house, they were with me’ – making the case for prosecution almost impossible, especially for a cautious CPS.

Why was Claudia drinking in the Acomb area in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, had something happened that upset her?

Claudia had recently booked a holiday to Cyprus to see a ‘close male friend’, was it to escape the obsession of a local admirer? Did that admirer explode with rage after hearing of her holiday plans to meet up with an alleged old flame?

Did that admirer then knock on the front door of her house on the evening of the 18th March 2009 and get no answer?

Did he then walk around the back of the house to the alleyway to see if the light was on in her room, trying her back gate, then walking back and trying the front door again?

If he is the guilty party, then blundering around in front of the CCTV cameras was sloppy in contrast with the swift cover-up that has left police struggling to build a clear case. In the footage, he was carrying a rucksack and walking purposefully, had he just finished work or was he hoping to stay over?

Did he pause for a moment to avoid being seen by a friend who crossed the road? If he is innocent, then why has he not come forward to police?

We know Claudia’s outbound phone activity ceased just over an hour after this footage was captured, it is our belief that this individual entered the house, either through a spare key or eventually coaxed Claudia to answer her door.

A confrontation escalated out of control, perhaps even accidentally, and he then removed her via the rear of the property under the cover of darkness, which would be the best time to commit such as crime without detection.

This rushed scenario would explain why the same man is seen once again lurking around the house at 5am in the next morning. Was he collecting carelessly forgotten items such as her phone or bag under his coat and hiding it, perhaps in one of the neighbouring properties in Heworth place until it could be disposed of later that day? Did he return to clean up the crime scene? Did he call friends or family members to help the cover up?

It is likely the Police have tell-tale phone records of activity such as the ‘chatter’ of texts and calls between those thought to be involved that evening and the next day. The police have also confirmed that several men have left fingerprints inside Claudia's house, despite denying they have ever been there.

The CCTV man was most certainly local to the area and his frequency on camera and knowledge of the area behind Claudia’s house suggests he lived either in Heworth place or one of the surrounding streets and had visited there before.

We believe he has not come forward, because he is guilty and is being protected by a false witness statement, giving him an apparently secure alibi.

In conclusion, it is crystal clear that those close to Claudia Lawrence have been telling lies to police for a very long time and that the identity of the ‘mystery man’ on CCTV is key to the investigation.

She was a prolific texter, who regularly sent messages to friends, yet outbound communication from her phone ceased that evening at 8.23pm.

Moreover, a suspicious individual was captured on CCTV outside her house around one hour before her last known communication.

In response to our submission of enhanced images, North Yorkshire Police emphasised that they would like the man in question to come forward so he can be eliminated from their enquiries.

We now have a clear outline and profile image of this 'mystery man' - we can see he has a dark receding hairline and we believe local people can identify him from this image.

Those who know the identity of this man should come forward and do the right thing.
 
  • #80
Interesting that they have satnav data. They should dig in those areas if possible where the route shows as clearly that is where she was taken on once leaving her property
 
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