UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #13

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  • #741
I believe that this was the scenario @Yozzer.

It is only my opinion and perhaps others should do their own research but it goes like this:

At some point after CL returned home from work, she goes out and returns back to her cottage

She has arranged to meet with someone who she is in a relationship with, he has been having personal issues and we know that CL has been helping someone with this.

She goes out of her back door so as not to be seen and crosses the Alley into one of terraced houses where her "New Friend" is awaiting.

They have some fun, watch some telly, she checks her phone and does her normal texting

Her Dad calls, her Mum calls.

CL and her "Friend both enjoy Location, Location, Location" Perhaps he will build CL her dream location one day?

She returns a text to JK about "working 12 shifts on the trot, no fun for me" JK is suspicious of the text as she knows that CL is meeting SC on Thursday night and so knows the text is inaccurate. She knows that CL is also meeting her Dad on Friday and that CL doesn't work weekends and Mothers Day is approaching
(She reads this text as an F Off message)

JK feels she is being snubbed for some reason?

CL is clearly distancing herself from someone at Nags Head and so hasn't attended as normal since weekend (She was helping JK also with a problem that weekend)

It was the SAME problem and CL was the cause of the problem.

CL goes to bed with "new" friend as things are getting steamy.

Its now after 9 at the Nags and one of staff goes on their break, they smoke and so they go outside. They can see a light on in their boyfriends house and he is supposed to be working late?

She lets herself into boyfriends house and catches CL and boyfriend inflagranti.

A row emerges

CL gets caught in the crossfire and somehow she is strangled by the wire of her curling tongs.

"She is gone before she hits the ground"

The two return to CL house and make sure it looks like CL has just left for work. One of the two has an intimate knowledge of how CL lives and so it makes the setting of the scene easier, except someone always makes a mistake and

  • They put the wrong slippers by the door-Joan spots this at a later date
  • When they stage the scene, they forget that if she is supposed to look like fleeing she would have taken her handbag and passport / cards
  • The man puts a footprint on her bathroom scales.

SC has a very good idea of what has happened but has already lost one friend and doesn't want to lose another and knows what the implications for the close group of Nags friends would be.

PL has his suspicions and will have shared them with police.

SC and PL remain close to friends to see if they can glean any information

Sightings

Breaking car-Car was flashing rear fog lights AFTER it passed someone they knew that morning to signal to them-It wasn't breaking

Alley man Evening-An admirer of CL who didn't know that she was seeing someone else that night, checking up on her as she didn't answer her door
Alley man Morning-Same person but starting to feel they were being avoided-Not Guilty of murder though.
White Jacket man was DR in the evening on his way to Nags
White Jacket man again was DR-It was his Maroon Volvo
Melrosegate sub station sighting-Not relevant
University Road argument-The two culprits having a row about where to put the body in the Maroon Volvo car they had borrowed that was always parked in HP
People at CL door (Man with fringe, Two men the week before, Person on morning) All CL's complex and mysterious friends)
Hair Dye, To make it look like she had changed her identity and fled

I recall one of CL friends saying "If I knew who murdered CL I would march them straight to the police station"

But what if it wasn't murder but manslaughter and that person was the culprit?
Would they march themselves to the cop shop?

And so it was a dreadful accident but because of CL complex and mysterious relationships.

Oh so many killings happen in this way.

She was a Lovely Lovely lass, she enjoyed her life and was single so why not-She didn't deserve to die for it though.

Tragic for all involved but its time for the truth to out.......

IMO DYOR
Well thought out and ties a lot of loose ends together. Many of us (not 'all' obviously - perish the thought :eek:) would generally agree with this version. Like others, I differ on a few points, but it follows the direction suggested by Dai Malyn in his summing up statement that it may have been a joint enterprise committed by her acquaintances or even, dare I say, people who she thought were her friends. I struggle with the term 'accident' because all adults have to take responsibility for their actions; jealousy or momentary loss of control should never justify the taking of a life. The law is more forgiving of young people who are still not mature enough to control their impulses but if an adult is of sound mind when the act was committed (and the perp/s have been smart enough to cover their tracks for 12 years) then they should feel the full weight of the law for not only taking a person's life but preventing a lawful burial and perjury. If or when this case is cracked, it will be interesting to learn whether it was 'a moment of madness' or a more calculated act.

I should add that I do understand the difference between murder and manslaughter but think in this case that even if the outcome was the lesser charge, there are so many aggravating factors in this case that the guilty should not see the light of day for a good stretch of time.
 
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  • #742
if the Allyman was just an innocent admirer why wouldn’t he come forward and helping police by doing so ?
Good point @Popejohn3. If I may suggest an opinion, perhaps he wanted to protect his long marriage record.
 
  • #743
I believe that the killer is female-Just my emotional intelligence.
I think yes, female involvement, culpability but not necessarily the killer.
Sometimes, men who stray from the bedroom are fiercely loyal in other departments of their relationship.
I think under confrontational circumstances they will defend the partner, not the bit on the side. JMO of course.[/QUOTE]


Especially if they are recently divorced due to extra marital shenanigans and don't want a 2nd relationship to go the same way.
 
  • #744
[/QUOTE]
Especially if they are recently divorced due to extra marital shenanigans and don't want a 2nd relationship to go the same way.[/QUOTE]

So, who is she going to be more angry with, on discovering the affair? Her partner or her BF who has broken the golden rule in the girl code handbook?
 
  • #745
  • #746
Well thought out and ties a lot of loose ends together. Many of us (not 'all' obviously - perish the thought :eek:) would generally agree with this version. Like others, I differ on a few points, but it follows the direction suggested by Dai Malyn in his summing up statement that it may have been a joint enterprise committed by her acquaintances or even, dare I say, people who she thought were her friends. I struggle with the term 'accident' because all adults have to take responsibility for their actions; jealousy or momentary loss of control should never justify the taking of a life. The law is more forgiving of young people who are still not mature enough to control their impulses but if an adult is of sound mind when the act was committed (and the perp/s have been smart enough to cover their tracks for 12 years) then they should feel the full weight of the law for not only taking a person's life but preventing a lawful burial and perjury. If or when this case is cracked, it will be interesting to learn whether it was 'a moment of madness' or a more calculated act.

I should add that I do understand the difference between murder and manslaughter but think in this case that even if the outcome was the lesser charge, there are so many aggravating factors in this case that the guilty should not see the light of day for a good stretch of time.
@Yozzer I agree. Had the culprits reported the "Accident" at or around the time, im sure a court would have returned a manslaughter verdict.

However, due to the time taken and the covering up, the perverting the course of justice, the lies quite blatantly on MSM, press and TV Media. There can only be one verdict today and that would be:

MURDER
 
  • #747
  • #748
Good point @Popejohn3. If I may suggest an opinion, perhaps he wanted to protect his long marriage record.
Good suggestion but foolish on his part because of the cctv and police determination to find him and subsequently his woman finding out that way .
As the police have said many times before, they would have treated his coming forward with discretion.
 
  • #749
If today’s posts are not seen as a challenge by her friend I don’t know what will !
 
  • #750
If today’s posts are not seen as a challenge by her friend I don’t know what will !
Thanks @Popejohn3 And a very good point. We cant always be mindful of pleasant semantics if we want to get close to the truth.
 
  • #751
Moving on to the uncomfortable conversation of disposal.
I think it's fair to say CL demise didn't involve bloodshed so no evidence to be found in that department.
Cadaverine on average takes about 90 min to start to leave traces.
I assume the dogs have been in Heworth place without alerting?
I'd guess that CL resting place is within the County of York.
 
  • #752
County of Yorkshire I should say.
No takers on this topic? Must admit, it is distasteful, but still, a big part of the mystery.

I think it's a straightforward clandestine burial in a very secluded place, by people with a lot of local knowledge. The culprits are lucky enough for it to have gone undiscovered so far.
Handy though, living and having property in Heworth Road/Place. They'll be the first to know if there's any renewed police activity at CL house. IMOO
 
  • #753
  • #754
County of Yorkshire I should say.
No takers on this topic? Must admit, it is distasteful, but still, a big part of the mystery.

I think it's a straightforward clandestine burial in a very secluded place, by people with a lot of local knowledge. The culprits are lucky enough for it to have gone undiscovered so far.
Handy though, living and having property in Heworth Road/Place. They'll be the first to know if there's any renewed police activity at CL house. IMOO


I cant imagine what must go through someone's mind when they discover they have a body on their hands
Once they have decided to conceal it and the thought process:

  • "Do we drive to the river-No it will float or turn up soon"
  • "Do we drive to the moors, there are plenty within an hour of York-No what if our car is stopped at this time of night"
  • "A shallow grave is far more risky"
  • "Who owes us who can help us-Family or not?"
  • "What about x with the car disposal yard"
  • "I know-I've got to fill the foundations of a property this week-Where can we store temporarily or can we go straight there?"

Its fair to say, if you follow my theory, the Culprit(s) had some safe options
And
Nearly 12 years on-Their choice was a good one.
 
  • #755
I cant imagine what must go through someone's mind when they discover they have a body on their hands
Once they have decided to conceal it and the thought process:

  • "Do we drive to the river-No it will float or turn up soon"
  • "Do we drive to the moors, there are plenty within an hour of York-No what if our car is stopped at this time of night"
  • "A shallow grave is far more risky"
  • "Who owes us who can help us-Family or not?"
  • "What about x with the car disposal yard"
  • "I know-I've got to fill the foundations of a property this week-Where can we store temporarily or can we go straight there?"

Its fair to say, if you follow my theory, the Culprit(s) had some safe options
And
Nearly 12 years on-Their choice was a good one.
Yes plenty of places out of sight of the general public, safe options would be private land, possibly where there are stables, paddocks etc, plenty around York and Malton
 
  • #756
I cant imagine what must go through someone's mind when they discover they have a body on their hands
Once they have decided to conceal it and the thought process:

  • "Do we drive to the river-No it will float or turn up soon"
  • "Do we drive to the moors, there are plenty within an hour of York-No what if our car is stopped at this time of night"
  • "A shallow grave is far more risky"
  • "Who owes us who can help us-Family or not?"
  • "What about x with the car disposal yard"
  • "I know-I've got to fill the foundations of a property this week-Where can we store temporarily or can we go straight there?"

Its fair to say, if you follow my theory, the Culprit(s) had some safe options
And
Nearly 12 years on-Their choice was a good one.

Two quick witted individuals who can think on their feet, I'll give them that. Don't think they would risk a building project disposal imo. Too obvious
 
  • #757
Yorkshire moors a vast and somewhat desolate place, and not too far away
 
  • #758
554 sq miles of near nothingness apparently
 
  • #759
Can I ask a general question: is WS working as it should be ? Because I’m not getting notifications yet I see posts when I check ?
I don’t think this is working right??
 
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  • #760
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