UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[MajorLang]

Wonder if this was a suspect's relative's home?
Claudia Lawrence police search East Yorkshire house

@Yozzer As I mentioned earlier in this thread. 15 Heworth Place was purchased by POI-PR in October 2009. Was it empty before or did he have some ownership. When he purchased it he did so as a Joint Ownership???

 

[MajorLang]

What I am struggling with at the moment is why was there suspicious activity in the evening at least 2 hours before CL normal bedtime?
Again, why did they wait until 5am next day to return to do something?

The only thing I can make of this is that she went out that night and wasn't at home at first sighting of Dark Person.
The Perps key reason for being at her house both evening and morning was as a staging operation to make it look like she did leave home for work the next day.

If she was in and they murdered her then they could clear up fairly quickly.
It wouldn't take hours to move her, make a bed and put some breakie dishes in the sink?

I also think that if there was activity in the evening it was because she was somewhere else and dealt with at that location.
I also believe that what we don't know is why?
Did she get too close to someone undercover. Of course we dont know if they met their end at the same time.
Scenario "We know he has been getting close to Claudia but we don't know what she knows so they will both have to go".
Lots of BNP activity reported at Nags and the undercover was likely looking to infiltrate that.
NYP may not even know about this and if an undercover meets their end, it is often not reported.

 

[MajorLang]

Good thinking ML. Another possibility is the utility box on the wall of the end terrace in the alley. This would be more discreet than running the risk of being spotted by a HP resident and would be easily accessible with a standard key.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIANGULAR...argid=aud-545671390501:pla-421167198120&psc=1

@Yozzer Yes I have one of these keys but for the record it wasn't me!!

 

[Yozzer]

More on the 2010 Ellerton search:

The man said he understood that the search operation was conducted because his son had been an acquaintance of Claudia in her work at the university, and had gone back to her home with some friends after a night out about three years ago.

Man's shock over home search in hunt for missing Claudia Lawrence

 

[MajorLang]

@Yozzer As I mentioned earlier in this thread. 15 Heworth Place was purchased by POI-PR in October 2009. Was it empty before or did he have some ownership. When he purchased it he did so as a Joint Ownership???

@Yozzer Her are the details of Heworth Place properties for 2009 that were occupied at time of CL dissapearance:

#3 Sold in May 2007 and again in June 2016
# 5 Sold in April 2007 and Oct 2012
#7 Sold in March 2006
#9 Sold in April 2000

#17 Sold in Dec 2007 and in March 2017
#19 Sold in Dec 2006

Flat 1 #21 Sold in Nov 2007 and Sept 2012
Flat 3 #21 Sold in Mar 2007 and Jan 2016

The following properties could well have been empty at time of her dissapearance:

#11 and 13 Student lets
#15 Sold in Jul 2009 but PR is not on Electoral roll for this property until 2011
Flat 4 #21 Sold in March 2015

The Landlord who NYP initially said was Morning Dark Man:

Owner of searched house was seen near Claudia's home on day she disappeared

Died on April 9th 2009. Again police claimed it was him but the same person appears as Dark Man in evening CCTV. This is why I am highly suspicious of their claims.

I cannot find any of properties with his name against them and so they were likley let out and tenants paying council tax on them.

The properties of interest are:
#11,13 & 15
All within the timed walking range for both Evening and Morning Dark person visits

 

[MajorLang]

More on the 2010 Ellerton search:

The man said he understood that the search operation was conducted because his son had been an acquaintance of Claudia in her work at the university, and had gone back to her home with some friends after a night out about three years ago.

Man's shock over home search in hunt for missing Claudia Lawrence

So that would be in Summer 2007. Sounds a bit weird as Claudia didn't move into Heworth Road until Nov / Dec 2007. Perhaps they went back to the house she lived at before then?

 

[Yozzer]

So that would be in Summer 2007. Sounds a bit weird as Claudia didn't move into Heworth Road until Nov / Dec 2007. Perhaps they went back to the house she lived at before then?

Not every witness is pinpoint accurate with dates though and 2007 is 3 years before 2010. Wonder if this may have been the colleague in York Uni with the faulty memory which he recovered in March 2010...or did he suggest another colleague's name and they followed it up? It may not have been connected with the Nag's Head crowd. Perhaps it was when she had just bought the property and was establishing herself in Heworth? It demonstrates the extent of her circle of contacts i.e. work, local, Cyprus, previous boyfriends incl from other areas of the country, people from previous workplaces e.g. in Malton etc.

 

[MajorLang]

Not every witness is pinpoint accurate with dates though and 2007 is 3 years before 2010. Wonder if this may have been the colleague in York Uni with the faulty memory which he recovered in March 2010...or did he suggest another colleague's name and they followed it up? It may not have been connected with the Nag's Head crowd. Perhaps it was when she had just bought the property and was establishing herself in Heworth? It demonstrates the extent of her circle of contacts i.e. work, local, Cyprus, previous boyfriends incl from other areas of the country, people from previously workplaces e.g. in Malton etc.

@Yozzer Could have been her housewarming party before she met the Nags

 

[Yozzer]

Did the NYP check 15 HP for prints? I know that they checked RC's properties for prints

I'm pretty sure they searched that property at the same time as the alley search. Just can't find the webpage.

Edit...
Here it is. The 3rd pic down with the police in white forensic suits. They are entering 15 HP. The drainpipe is the marker and you can just see the little black keycode box at head level. Note also the positioning of the 'crime scene - do not enter' tape indicating the location of the suspect's property and excluding the ones near the alley.
Three men arrested on suspicion of murder of York college chef Claudia Lawrence

 

[Angleterre]

Could be totally uninvolved in her disappearance but presumably police officers/detectives have their prints on file for ref. how easy is it to assign yourself to a case/call as an officer/detective? surely a trail of command to trace back through......

Alleyman: if he retrieved a spare key at 7.15 was the intention to prevent Claudia from being able to get back into her house, by him or someone else sneaking her housekeys from her bag/pocket wherever she went? Did she then call someone nearby? Then ambushed wherever she went, Nag's even? Was the pocket rummaging a signal to someone, "I can't find them!"
Or in the morning or even early am, was Claudia lured to her back garden/as far as the alley then grabbed? Narrows possibilities somewhat. This is why it's important to grasp exact layout of alleyway, how far the path goes/went in 09 and how: jumpable fence/gate/neither? We shouldn't rule out other neighbouring houses too obvs. Was it inaccessible enough to warrant leaving a spare key to her house outside her backgarden in the pathed alleyway area rather than beneath a plantpot/similar near the backdoor? Risky. She could have left one at the Nag's even, but more likely a friend's house.

So does that suggest if he is retrieving a key and is involved in Claudia's disappearance it is more likely a spare for nearby shed/garage as ML said, which belongs to whom? Did Jen still have a copy of the house key having lived w Claudia? Did she live across the road in March 2009? Pretty sure she didn't when I worked at the Nags.

Apologies if any/all this has already been said.

I can answer the first part of your question and yes all Police officers in the UK have their fingerprints taken upon recruitment as do all support staff in the Police
It wouldn’t be at all easy for a case to be assigned as you described as there is a process to go through and categories of investigations can be assigned having regards to many different factors. I have personally worked alongside Det Supt Ray Galloway.... I will park that comment !

 

[MajorLang]

I'm pretty sure they searched that property at the same time as the alley search. Just can't find the webpage.

Edit...
Here it is. The 3rd pic down with the police in white forensic suits. They are entering 15 HP. The drainpipe is the marker and you can just see the little black keycode box at head level. Note also the positioning of the 'crime scene - do not enter' tape indicating the location of the suspect's property and excluding the ones near the alley.
Three men arrested on suspicion of murder of York college chef Claudia Lawrence

@Yozzer Great stuff. So the alleyway search revealed that it was necessary to then search properties off the alley and in particular as can be seen from the photo you provide, Number 15.

It would be good to know who purchased this property in a joint purchase with POI-PR?

 

[MajorLang]

I can answer the first part of your question and yes all Police officers in the UK have their fingerprints taken upon recruitment as do all support staff in the Police
It wouldn’t be at all easy for a case to be assigned as you described as there is a process to go through and categories of investigations can be assigned having regards to many different factors. I have personally worked alongside Det Supt Ray Galloway.... I will park that comment !

@Angletterre Thanks for clearing this up.
Do you know why NYP decided that one of CVTVs of Dark Person in Heworth Place was designated as being the dead landlord RC yet the other one with exactly same Dark man in it was such a major push in their appeal?

It appears to be rather strange?

 

[MajorLang]

@Yozzer Great stuff. So the alleyway search revealed that it was necessary to then search properties off the alley and in particular as can be seen from the photo you provide, Number 15.

It would be good to know who purchased this property in a joint purchase with POI-PR?

The GHD Hair Straighteners
And if you zoom into the picture which is the 3rd one down-PC carrying evidence out in a plastic storage box what can you see? I can see a box with GHD on the side, the hair straighteners......Any Sleuths make out anything else?

 

[Yozzer]

@Angletterre Thanks for clearing this up.
Do you know why NYP decided that one of CVTVs of Dark Person in Heworth Place was designated as being the dead landlord RC yet the other one with exactly same Dark man in it was such a major push in their appeal?

It appears to be rather strange?

Do you think the NYP's decision to discuss the probability with the press that this was most likely to be RC had made that particular piece of evidence inadmissable? Hoist by their own petard, so to speak.

 

[MajorLang]

Do you think the NYP's decision to discuss the probability with the press that this was most likely to be RC had made that particular piece of evidence inadmissable? Hoist by their own petard, so to speak.

I dont believe so. If they had named who they thought the SUSPECT was then they would have found it to be inadmissible but as RC was dead and not their suspect. I believe that they could still produce this as evidence. They can claim they were initially wrong but on further analysis believe that the man in CCTVs are believed to be the same and not RC.

 

[Yozzer]

The GHD Hair Straighteners
And if you zoom into the picture which is the 3rd one down-PC carrying evidence out in a plastic storage box what can you see? I can see a box with GHD on the side, the hair straighteners......Any Sleuths make out anything else?

Excellent spot! Taken from P's property where, as we know, a female resides.
Why do you think the police place so much importance on finding CL's straighteners? Is it because their absence from the house implies she may have gone out for the night on 18th March? Or some other reason?

 

[MajorLang]

Excellent spot! Taken from PR's property where, as we know, a female resides.
Why do you think the police place so much importance on finding CL's straighteners? Is it because their absence from the house implies she may have gone out for the night on 18th March? Or some other reason?

I think that she may have been doing someone else's hair. Probably because they wanted DNA. Also hair straighteners tend to stay at home unless the person has planned to go straight out from work or is staying over. How did you know that another female lived at number 15?

 

[Yozzer]

I think that she may have been doing someone else's hair. Probably because they wanted DNA. Also hair straighteners tend to stay at home unless the person has planned to go straight out from work or is staying over. How did you know that another female lived at number 15?

There are 3 properties pictured. It is very difficult to discern the other 2 which is deliberate due to Dai Malyn's stern instructions in 2015 about identity. However I am pretty sure S lived in 15, P's house can be identified by the pillar (!) and the pic of the bay window is the detached house with the builder's van near to CL's home (the article's description), owned by D who became very agitated in 2018 about being roped into the investigation. It wouldn't surprise me if the police were threatened with being sued for wrongful arrest too.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I read on the Find Claudia FB page ages ago, when an old friend of hers posted (first initial was A) that she had naturally quite frizzy hair and hated it. So it was likely she took the straighteners to work to de-frizz after the heat of the kitchen. To me, that's quite extraordinary, but this is a woman who walked all those miles every day to lose a couple of pounds. So appearance was v important to her.

 

[MajorLang]

There are 3 properties pictured. It is very difficult to discern the other 2 which is deliberate due to Dai Malyn's stern instructions in 2015 about identity. However I am pretty sure S lived in 15, P's house can be identified by the pillar (!) and the pic of the bay window is the detached house with the builder's van near to CL's home (the article's description), owned by D who became very agitated in 2018 about being roped into the investigation. It wouldn't surprise me if the police were threatened with being sued for wrongful arrest too.

@Yozzer Yes it is definitely Number 15 where they searched. I have, like you checked the property photo.

Do you mean S being female or S as brother of PR?

Also. Bay windows in press article with policewoman outside show 5 small top and 5 larger in Bay. House opposite CL that is detached only have 4 top and 3 bottom. Are you referring to a different press article other than:
Three men arrested on suspicion of murder of York college chef Claudia Lawrence

Have you noticed the soft top Mercedes CLK in the Press photo of 2015 at time of Heworth Place search-Dark blue? It appears in Google in 2014. In 2012 a silver BMW appears here, likely to be the same owner who likes German sporty cars? At all times they are parked outside number 13 next door? Nice car for house types in this area. Always appear to be parked up here?