UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[Pinkizzy]

But you mention it in the same post and don't elaborate!

No, I didn't. I mentioned the Corsa and the coat in the same post

 

[MajorLang]

No, I didn't. I mentioned the Corsa and the coat in the same post

Ok so the Mattress-Please elaborate???

 

[Popejohn3]

Claudia update:
The ten year anniversary of Claudia's disappearance brought with it renewed interest in the still unsolved North Yorkshire murder mystery, not to mention new discussion: some of it a refresher of ideas already covered, some of it topics entirely new or at least more explicitly phrased elaborations on previously discussed theories, questions, and the like.
I think the timeline most agreed upon: the one suggesting Claudia was asleep at her house by 21.30 on March 18th 2009 and is why she didn't reply to her later texts that evening; entirely plausible had she stayed out drinking late the night before, and indeed this jived with the scene her father reportedly found at the house on Thursday evening, is that Claudia was abducted on her way to work from her own home on the Thursday morning, March 19th. Family have disputed some witness accounts though, based on presumably detailed review of exactly what was described. Is it possible that one or more witnesses turned out to be some of the main POI?

If Claudia met with her abductor and probable murderer at some point before or after her last known texts and phonecalls made in the evening on March 18th 2009, myriad possibilities abound, bringing with them their own set of puzzles and questions.

The alleyway behind Claudia's house is as potentially relevant as it is seemingly obscured. No detailed aerial photo evidence of the alleyway pre-2013 review exists online, according to Google. One photo uploaded and presumably taken in 2015 shows that the alley path ends a couple of doors down from Claudia's house. Adjacent and opposite to it as revealed on Websleuths is the back garden of 15 Heworth Place, once owned by suspect Pete Ruane's father, which was more or less open plan with Claudia's and two neighbouring ones. Was the layout the same in 2009? The shrubbery at the end of Heworth Place culdesac through to towards the Nag's Head car park as evidenced by Google maps has varied in density dramatically over time. Thick with bushes in 2008, by October 2009 it had been stripped bare and cleared, hopefully because the area had been forensically searched by investigators. If not, who did the work and who said they could do so? I do think that certain abnormalities in the investigation we see, including some which might point to police incompetence, are intended as a gotcha, but there is surely a reason for that.

One would assume that the most likely reason is in order to distract from a mistake or error of judgement that police really don't want us to notice, including embarrassment about being led down a garden path or two in the early days of the investigation by the very people they would eventually strongly suspect.

At first, police focused on the 'Rogue's Gallery' of men Claudia allegedly had vague relationships with. Perhaps some of them were at the pub the evening of March 18th. It bears thinking about the timing. Why then? If the RG aren't involved and were say attending a sporting event being shown at the pub that night and the perps knew them so knew they would attend said match/game, could they have designated then as the night Claudia went missing to implicate RG amongst others? And when so many people are implicated at once, the chance that a local/s amongst them are responsible is high.

Limes Court CCTV. If the man/men filmed are at least in part responsible for whatever happened to Claudia, what are the possibilities? I am less convinced than ML that the CCTV men had nothing to do with her disappearance, but it is quite plausible. Evening man could be checking for lights at her house before knocking at the front door or her car, retrieving/replacing a key or similar. Morning man ditto, the passerby in the evening footage could be coincidental or an accomplice. The possible third person could be looking out for people walking up LC and HP and of course morning and evening man could potentially be doing the same.

Consider though that evening and night man are involved in Claudia's disappearance, knowingly or not at the time, as a misdirecting force in the context of the CCTV. This would imply both knowledge about and potentially access to the LC cameras and the quality of footage they recorded. So too that Claudia's disappearance was a group effort. It's also not beyond the realm of possibility that York Uni and St John contracted out to the same or affiliated security firms for their halls of residence/grounds patrol staff and that those companies might have contracts with the council and even bars in the city centre too, which could be significant. Involved but unaware of the CCTV the possibilities are the same: unknown person/s enters the property--whether by door, skylight or window--stakes out, or retrieves something from nearby Claudia's house. Alternatively she is at some point that night coaxed or voluntary walks outside, perhaps to a car.

As per my post about Claudia's disappearance and my experience working at the Nag's, I go into some detail about the Ford Focus but do not muse outright that perhaps Claudia was the driver of that car, in the footage we see at least, and that perhaps she was convinced that night that her Corsa was a write-off and she needed a new one, perhaps offered to her by someone. I do think that Claudia would have been wary about driving a car she wasn't insured on though, and this scenario given the CCTV would imply she spent the night at someone else's house.

Thanks for the detailed write-up ML, I think as most Sleuths realise ultimately we can only speculate. What brought me to this forum is knowing the victim. What happened to Claudia was unjust, unfair and an indictment of our times, like so many injustices before and since.

Claudia’s father lent her his car a couple of times.What did he drive ? And I’m guessing it would be weekends because he still worked or when he was abroad !

 

[Popejohn3]

What do car and mattress have to do with one another?
I thought that her little Corsa would be too small to accommodate a mattress?

Oh yes she did lol

 

[Yozzer]

Oh yes she did lol

She did what?!

 

[MajorLang]

She did what?!

Like in a mini PJ3

 

[Pinkizzy]

Ok so the Mattress-Please elaborate???

I can't find the link ATM. However, I remember reading something about a mattress being removed from the Nags Head around March 2009

 

[MajorLang]

I can't find the link ATM. However, I remember reading something about a mattress being removed from the Nags Head around March 2009

Yes that's the one they were checking for DNA. Clearly didn't find any as they didn't arrest anyone for some years to come.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The mattress gives credibility to the drunken group games IMO. She only lived a few doors down

 

[Yozzer]

The mattress gives credibility to the drunken group games IMO. She only lived a few doors down

Nag's Head manager would argue (& G Foreman did vociferously) that they ran, and still do, a B & B service so there would be rooms with beds (& mattresses).

 

[Pinkizzy]

Yes that's the one they were checking for DNA. Clearly didn't find any as they didn't arrest anyone for some years to come.

I can't find the reference on reddit, I guess I read it on facebook

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Nag's Head manager would argue (& G Foreman did vociferously) that they ran, and still do, a B & B service so there would be rooms with beds (& mattresses).

Yes but where's the relevance to Claudia in the police investigation I wonder

 

[Yozzer]

Yes but where's the relevance to Claudia in the police investigation I wonder

It would certainly explain that line of enquiry if there was a dvd.

 

[MajorLang]

I can't find the reference on reddit, I guess I read it on facebook

Yes it's where they wanted to see if CL had left any DNA

 

[MajorLang]

Yes it's where they wanted to see if CL had left any DNA

But there was likely to be another females DNA on the mattresses at the Nags

 

[Pinkizzy]

The police found blood on one of the mattresses in the Nags Head

 

[Yozzer]

The police found blood on one of the mattresses in the Nags Head

They did indeed.
According to the pub landlord, she NEVER slept there.
Pub blood can't be Claudia's... she never slept here
My eye was drawn to this quote from GF:
They found a spot of blood on a mattress – but that could have been there 20 years.
Nice.

 

[Yozzer]

Interesting comment from CLs mum.
“I should have been shown around her house immediately afterwards, to see if I could spot anything amiss.
“It was years later when I was shown photos of her living room and something looked very odd. Some old fashioned slippers were neatly placed by the hearth – I can’t imagine Claudia wearing that style, let alone putting them down so meticulously.
"It looked as though someone had gone in and tidied up. I would have immediately said something was amiss.”
Missing Claudia Lawrence: Her mum's 12 unanswered questions

 

[MajorLang]

Interesting comment from CLs mum.
“I should have been shown around her house immediately afterwards, to see if I could spot anything amiss.
“It was years later when I was shown photos of her living room and something looked very odd. Some old fashioned slippers were neatly placed by the hearth – I can’t imagine Claudia wearing that style, let alone putting them down so meticulously.
"It looked as though someone had gone in and tidied up. I would have immediately said something was amiss.”
Missing Claudia Lawrence: Her mum's 12 unanswered questions

The old slippers would suggest that the person didnt know Claudia that well or hadn't been a regular visitor at her home

 

[MajorLang]

This appeared on Facebook in the earlier days after she went missing
It was suggested the poster was Male