UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[TheTruthWillOut]

Well for my sanity I think it better to keep things as simple as possible, James.

With that said I think with the info we have there are two possibilities. Something happened with the bin lorry or he got into a car willingly or not near the bins. Right now if the latter happened it wasn't pre-arranged earlier. The former seems to be ruled out by Police.

We need a lot more information to move forward and hope we get more in the update from the family later.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Just to provoke the discussion and gauge peoples opinions - could he have been meeting a female after the clubs closed and people were leaving? A female who was perhaps known to Corrie, but maybe in another relationship and they got caught? I still think the hanging around for so long was a deliberate choice on Corries part, otherwise why did he sit around after waking up, why not just start moving again, why not head home with food in his hands. The difficulty is second guessing why he would hang around as there are so many possibilities. There is also the added aspect of three teenagers (2male, 1 female)heard arguing very close by shortly after 4.00. They have been interviewed, but it must have been an awful argument to wake up the person who notified the police in the early days.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

There is also the added aspect of three teenagers (2male, 1 female)heard arguing very close by shortly after 4.00. They have been interviewed, but it must have been an awful argument to wake up the person who notified the police in the early days.

I think I must have missed this bit ... are these the same teenagers seen by the bin lorry driver? Or are we no longer saying the bin lorry driver saw anyone?

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think I must have missed this bit ... are these the same teenagers seen by the bin lorry driver? Or are we no longer saying the bin lorry driver saw anyone?

I have seen both comments and it is quite possible for both to be true, however my understanding (or misunderstanding) was that they were initially not identified, but a woman had private cc tv footage of them and had heard them arguing outside her flat and handed it to the police, it was only afte this cc tv was handed in that the three were traced and identified by the police, it does not therefore rule out that the bin lorry driver saw them. Again, where that bit becomes confusing is that they were seen after 4.00- the bin lorry would have been well and truly away from that area by then.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

I have seen both comments and it is quite possible for both to be true, however my understanding (or misunderstanding) was that they were initially not identified, but a woman had private cc tv footage of them and had heard them arguing outside her flat and handed it to the police, it was only afte this cc tv was handed in that the three were traced and identified by the police, it does not therefore rule out that the bin lorry driver saw them. Again, where that bit becomes confusing is that they were seen after 4.00- the bin lorry would have been well and truly away from that area by then.

<modsnip>

Edit: Though I've said before and I'll mention it again ... we've been told the bin lorry driver saw the teens, but nobody said he was in the bin lorry at the time. He could have finished work and been on his way home.

<modsnip>

 

[JamesKing]

Well for my sanity I think it better to keep things as simple as possible, James.

With that said I think with the info we have there are two possibilities. Something happened with the bin lorry or he got into a car willingly or not near the bins. Right now if the latter happened it wasn't pre-arranged earlier. The former seems to be ruled out by Police.

We need a lot more information to move forward and hope we get more in the update from the family later.

No... I said "something could have happened near the bin OR he got into the car willingly".

Nothing to do with the "bin lorry".

The reason for that presumption is, if the phone travelled to Barton Mills, because it was first in that bin, then that bin was chosen for a reason. Likely that reason was "that bin was the nearest".
Leaping ahead a bit.... if the phone went to Barton because it had been in that particular bin, then Corrie got into a car unwillingly and he wasn't going for a pee as the car (and driver) were (in the way) there.

Taking that assumption one step further (or actually in "timeline speak" one step backwards) If Corrie wasn't going for a wee but walked to the loading area, purely based on the fact(s) that he waited 2 hours and he refused a lift of the USAF guy, a "pre-planned meeting" has to be a live option.

 

[Ruthbullock]

<modsnip>

Edit: Though I've said before and I'll mention it again ... we've been told the bin lorry driver saw the teens, but nobody said he was in the bin lorry at the time. He could have finished work and been on his way home.

<modsnip>

<modsnip>The bin lorry driver may have seen them near the bins during his pick up. When this all started they could not be identified (however bin lorry driver may have mentioned them to police) and people were initially offering up specific private cctv through the facebook page (many weeks ago now). These teenagers were not able to be identified on public cctv (so it is not that uncommon to avoid cctv in that area), but shortly after, a woman offered up private cc tv of the teenagers and said she had heard them arguing and it woke her up. This cctv was passed to Nicola as she confirmed she received it after being asked about it several times and a couple of days later the teenagers had been identified and spoken to by the police.

 

[Amonet]

*IF* there was a pre-planned meeting for 3.30am for a lift home, Corrie was a couple of minutes early. He still might have nipped in by the bins for some privacy for a pee.

The hypothetical meeting might not have been in the bin area but further along, and the loading bay was just on the way there.

IF there was a meeting for a lift home, then it was probably arranged by mouth (as opposed by phone) earlier in the evening, maybe before Corrie left the Flex club.

I can't see how this scenario leads to Corrie going missing. If he didn't make this hypothetical lift, then there's no reason for the person offering the lift to not come forward and say he was supposed to be at X place at 3.30am but didn't turn up.

I think the phone in the bin is very low probability now, as there doesn't seem to be a way to place the phone in the bin lorry *and* have the phone come to a complete or near standstill in the Barton Mills/Mildenhall area.

ETA.

To continue that line of thought. I believe the times given by police are approximate. But if we go by their times of the phone traveling to Barton Mills area between approx 4 and 4.30am, then we've got a missing half hour where Corrie stays in BSE. We haven't really been given any idea of triangulation for that time period, whether Corrie was hanging around a particular area or made a ten minute walk toward the Tesco filling station.

So this missing half hour in BSE could be why the police are still focusing on getting everyone in BSE at that time to come forward just to give the lay of the land in that timeframe.

The police have asked all the way through for people in Bury, Barton Mills, Mildenhall and surrounding areas to check gardens and outbuildings, but even if Corrie was with the phone when it left on that journey, that half hour time frame could be when/where something happened and maybe went wrong...and then 4am would be after-the-fact/covering up for what happened in Bury city centre.

Corrie could have just been hanging around because the time the clubs emptied out was the most likely time to meet up with mates getting into taxis and cadge a lift with them...but on the other hand, why not saunter back to the doors exiting Flex? Unless he knew his mates were heading to a second club?

 

[Gene Hunt]

And it's a straight run through from Short Brackland, rather than turning left, then right.
That time of night ? A local ? Or someone that knew it is possible as its not all One Way ???? Hmmm

Yep it could be any of those reasons,or someone who wanted to leave the area quickly with the least chance of bumping into police

 

[Warner]

I wonder if the club had CCTV. It was said corrie was asked to leave, he obviously wasn't with his friends at the time he was ejected so who was he with? Did he arrange as he was escorted to meet a girl he was talking with in the spot he was sitting? Makes sense that he could have been and would explain why he didn't want a lift in a car when asked, because he had plans to meet someone. I used to live in a village 8 miles from a town like BSE we used to go out in, the only way any of us would walk that far was if we have absolutely no other options.

Going back to the doorway, Alcohol increases in the blood after your last drink so at that time he sits down and after the food maybe whilst waiting for this possible person just fell asleep. Whilst asleep some chancer rummaged in his pockets and took his wallet and phone. Corries phone wasn't a valuable iPhone and probably had a password so took money and threw phone and wallet in the bin. Corrie wakes up discovers he has been robbed, sobering up, cold, and now wondering how the hell he is going to get home, on waking needs a pee.. (Makes sense, he's been drinking and had a power nap, pretty sure he'll be needing to go) - in the CCTV when he is last seen he looks like the way I explained, defeated, cold, sobering up.

From then on I have no idea like any of us but am with he either hitched a ride, got on a unlocked bike, found a hidden away area to get his head down for a couple of hours before daylight or walked back home. But I would be surprised if he did walk he would be treking off road even if there is a short cut. When any of my friends got cut short on a night out the shoelace express would be on the main a roads. It also wasn't unheard of to get into someone's car boot if offered a ride.

I think corrie succoming to one of these options is more likely. I just don't buy him catching a nap in a bin, even homeless people don't do that. And if he was forced into it he would have put up a fight and made noise. I know we can't rule out anything but I do think his fate was met but a set of unfortunate circumstances which unbeknown to him at the time would make him untraceable until his body is stumbled upon.

 

[JamesKing]

@Amonet

I'm not saying there was a possible lift.
But I am saying "there was a strong reason that night for Corrie to wait for two hours".

 

[Warner]

There's a difference between sitting waiting alert and falling asleep.

 

[JamesKing]

And IF there was a strong reason that night for Corrie to wait for two hours.....
....then whoever he was waiting for, has not come forward to say.

The logical thing then to ponder is, where was this meeting due to take place ?

Due to what happened, it is likely to have taken place where he was heading to.
But we don't know where that was.

All we know is, whatever happened, seems to have happened in the Short Brackland vicinity.

These are just thoughts, but....

Was he meeting a married woman and the husband turns up instead ?
Was he meeting a girl who's family didn't approve of him ?
Was he meeting to buy drugs (although drugs sellers like their users alive and spending) ?

The possibilities are endless. But it should be considered.

 

[JamesKing]

There's a difference between sitting waiting alert and falling asleep.

Yeh, I agree. Waiting ten minutes for a bus. Waiting till from 1.20am to 3.30am. I'd have a doze.

 

[Warner]

Yeh, I agree. Waiting ten minutes for a bus. Waiting till from 1.20am to 3.30am. I'd have a doze.

I think you are missing my point. I don't think corrie had any intention of being there that long, he certainly wouldn't have with a sober head on - just decide to have a sleep making himself vulnerable in a doorway. I think he just simply dozed off pretty quickly and woke up when he woke up. It's important to remember alcohol is a mind altering substance. it's very difficult to sit and reason with an intoxicated mind. Alcohol makes us loose inhibitions and makes us do things we wouldn't usually.
He clearly had had enough to drink that he was asked to leave a nightclub, another thought is maybe he got in a scuffle in the nightclub - maybe chatting up someone's girlfriend - and the other people stayed, corrie got kicked out, and when he woke up the people he had a scuffle with saw him on their way out of the club heading home. Just another thought.

 

[ByTheRiver]

The bin area is tiny, takes seconds to walk through and either left into short brackland or into cornhill. It really doesnt look a scary area. The red Biffa bins are lined up and on Friday the blue recycling bin full to bursting withe lid propped open from the paper. There are so many discrepancies about when he left Base, how much he drank, where he went etc etc, that nothing was out of character such as falling asleep in doorways to walking home to then his Mum saying he didnt intentionally fall asleep and that he had never walked back to base.

there was a report on fb in the early days of the search dogs reacting at tesco roundabout to a sighting of him in Mildenhall between 4.30am and 8.00am to a sighting at the sugar beet factory. There are allotments and a travellers site on the roundabout at tesco too, with sheds on the allotment.

if he had been mugged in Hughes doorway surely that would be on the cctv?

I cant imagine him being kidnapped in the bin area as you cant make a quick get away by the looks of it whereas at Marham you are on a busy main road and i think could do that.

as regards to stealing a bicycle are we not under the impression he was very drunk and there perhaps remind ourselves the effects alcohol has on the body ie disorientation, dehydration, poor coordination, confusion, vomitting, diarrhoea, headache, possible hupothermia...

 

[JamesKing]

I think you are missing my point. I don't think corrie had any intention of being there that long, he certainly wouldn't have with a sober head on - just decide to have a sleep making himself vulnerable in a doorway. I think he just simply dozed off pretty quickly and woke up when he woke up. It's important to remember alcohol is a mind altering substance. it's very difficult to sit and reason with an intoxicated mind. Alcohol makes us loose inhibitions and makes us do things we wouldn't usually.
He clearly had had enough to drink that he was asked to leave a nightclub, another thought is maybe he got in a scuffle in the nightclub - maybe chatting up someone's girlfriend - and the other people stayed, corrie got kicked out, and when he woke up the people he had a scuffle with saw him on their way out of the club heading home. Just another thought.

But that is speculating that the same people he could have had a scuffle with in the club are the same people that saw him going for a pee, AND were missed by all the cctv in the area heading towards Short Brackland.....

.....and that they were then willing to move a body.

And that they have access to a car, which was parked nearby if not exactly where Corrie was peeing !

The holes in the cheese need to line up almost perfectly


EDIT....
I don't buy this idea....but running with this idea for a moment, were the 3 people seen at 4.20am in Flex earlier ?
Did they have access to a car ? And had they come back because they'd dumped the phone in the bin and were going to retrieve it and dump it somewhere else....and not where the crime had happened. But the bin lorry had already been ?

 

[Warner]

But that is speculating that the people that saw him going for a pee, were missed by all the cctv in the area heading towards Short Brackland.....

.....and that they were then willing to move a body.

And that they have access to a car, which was parked nearby if not exactly where Corrie was peeing !

The holes in the cheese need to line up almost perfectly

I never said about anything happening when he went for a pee. They could have seen him on a walk home, they could have seen him anywhere. Like everyone here your guess is as good as mine.
I'm still more certain that any other options that he lost his phone and money l/ and or was pick pocketed - slept somewhere hidden away for a couple of hours before daylight after he woke. Dropping and losing things is common place when drunk.
I had an incident myself when younger that I drank a skinful, managed to get home 3 hours later from my last drink and my parents had to call an ambulance as I passed out on the bathroom floor and was Barely able to talk to them at that point. If they hadn't found me it was a strong certainty I would have choked on my own vomit, and that was hours after my last drink and being able to walk home. Corrie must have been very wobbly to be asked to leave, in the UK that only usually happens if you are in a right state.

 

[JamesKing]

I never said about anything happening when he went for a pee. They could have seen him on a walk home, they could have seen him anywhere. Like everyone here your guess is as good as mine.
I'm still more certain that any other options that he lost his phone and money l/ and or was pick pocketed - slept somewhere hidden away for a couple of hours before daylight after he woke. Dropping and losing things is common place when drunk.
I had an incident myself when younger that I drank a skinful, managed to get home 3 hours later from my last drink and my parents had to call an ambulance as I passed out on the bathroom floor and was Barely able to talk to them at that point. If they hadn't found me it was a strong certainty I would have choked on my own vomit, and that was hours after my last drink and being able to walk home. Corrie must have been very wobbly to be asked to leave, in the UK that only usually happens if you are in a right state.

I get what you're saying, but I'm just trying fit everything together and come up with a "best guess", which is all it could ever be.

If he's walking home from Short Brackland (which it appears he has never done before), he isn't captured on the static camera the family recovered the cctv images from.

He could of lost his phone, but then it would then have to find it's way into the bin. I have lost my phone before...and sunglasses and my wallet, but never in a bin.

And then he's not been recovered. If he is lying out on the ground, in a likely to have travelled spot, he's in the open. There have been helicopters and search dogs and people all over (and it's a big area I know, but not to be seen after weeks of looking).

 

[hermes&&]

Static camera was as revelation to me, up till now there was a thought he could have walked out and been missed as the cctv changed position.

Can anyone tell us what if any physical searches are being carried out currently. Which areas are being searched and how?

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