GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Alyce]

I'm wondering why the police issued the arrest warrant. You wouldn't accuse someone of murder just because they helped themselves to money that wasn't theirs. I think there must be more to it.

They've got something else for sure. Just seems it was not quite enough to make a charge.

Somewhere in one of the many articles I read yesterday and which I now cant find, there is a quote from the police saying that as a result of new information they have now decided this is a murder enquiry ( I am paraphrasing there ).

Plus the arrest will have given them carte blanche to search premises without needing permission from IS.

 

[Alyce]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cion-murder-disposing-body.html#ixzz4EJlx0m9M

Thanks Elainera. I have a feeling that article has been updated. Am fairly sure I read aneurysm yesterday and am guessing the reporter perhaps didnt have the full info ( which as we know has been hard to find ) and went for aneurysm which would fit the circumstances of a very sudden collapse and death.

 

[Elainera]

I'm wondering why the police issued the arrest warrant. You wouldn't accuse someone of murder just because they helped themselves to money that wasn't theirs. I think there must be more to it.

Was he accused of murder by LE? Maybe he was arrested for theft?

 

[Alyce]

Was he accused of murder by LE? Maybe he was arrested for theft?

Yes there were three reasons given for the arrest
Suspicion of murder
Disposal of a body
Theft

 

[Elainera]

Yes there were three reasons given for the arrest
Suspicion of murder
Disposal of a body
Theft

Thanks Alyce, I didn't get that at all :facepalm:

In that case I would assume they have strong pointers.

 

[neteditor]

I think the strong pointers could be that it seems she may not have left the house (handbag not taken (but that fact possibly kept from the police for a time?), no electronic trail, no phone use, no bank use, no contact with mum which is highly out of the ordinary), plus the police always look closely at the nearest and dearest. Yes there are possible sightings of her but eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable. It seems there's no CCTV, her car was left at home... to all intents and purposes, and from what we know, it looks like she didn't leave home alive. We don't know what info the police have about IS movements ie the CCTV / NPRS trail IS may have left in the days after she went missing, what neighbours and witnesses have seen him do etc.

 

[Tortoise]

Going through the article recently posted again https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...issing-mystery-disappearance-childrens-author I must have missed this before -

Chief Inspector Wheatley says

"[FONT=&quot]she doesn’t think the note was a suicide note. “To me, and I’ve seen many suicide notes, that’s not a suicide note. It is not like that. It just said: “Need some space. Going to Broadstairs.”[/FONT]

So it does exist, even though "[FONT=&quot]She is unable to give any details of what the note looked like or confirm whether it was typed or handwritten."[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

Also -

"[FONT=&quot]Officers have also gathered CCTV from neighbouring houses from the day she disappeared"[/FONT]

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

In theory wouldn't he have access to her bank account?
I know my parents had their own acct while having a joint and they both had access to those personal accounts.
Just because it was her account doesn't mean he couldn't access it.

All MOO!

 

[Satchie]

In theory wouldn't he have access to her bank account?
I know my parents had their own acct while having a joint and they both had access to those personal accounts.
Just because it was her account doesn't mean he couldn't access it.

All MOO!

Part of the difference between marriage and just living together is that partners can keep their assets separate.

"If you are living together and you and your partner have separate bank accounts, neither of you can have access to money held in the other partner’s account. If one partner dies, any balance in the account will be the property of your partner's estate and cannot be used until the estate is settled." https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/r...ving-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

 

[Tortoise]

Part of the difference between marriage and just living together is that partners can keep their assets separate.

"If you are living together and you and your partner have separate bank accounts, neither of you can have access to money held in the other partner’s account. If one partner dies, any balance in the account will be the property of your partner's estate and cannot be used until the estate is settled." https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/r...ving-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

Yes, it's only in exceptional circumstances that other parties, even married, have permission to operate another's personal bank account - if the person has given a power of attorney, for instance they are too ill to manage their own affairs.

That's the whole reason for the distinction between personal and joint accounts - if you wanted your spouse to have access to your money you would have to put it in the joint account which has joint permissions.

 

[Alyce]

In theory wouldn't he have access to her bank account?
I know my parents had their own acct while having a joint and they both had access to those personal accounts.
Just because it was her account doesn't mean he couldn't access it.

All MOO!

Yes, I am sure he could access fairly easily. He had her passwords for email ( I remember the police saying they didnt have to go to the trouble of contacting the IP to gain access ) so fairly sure he would have known, or would have known how to find, her passwords for on line banking.



sorry ETA - I just read the remainder of the comments re this ( note to self, read all of the thread before replying ! )

My point was, that yes he could access Helen's account on line, but as soon as he did, it would flag up that Helen had accessed her account and no doubt the police have the bank on stand by to alert them when this happens.

 

[Tortoise]

Still searching for that elusive whatever it was I read that gave his wife's cause of death. I will have to give up now, I've been through a few months of my internet search history.

Anyway, came across this article again from 2015 and re-read it. It's worth a read if you want more insight into the lovely Helen and how she met Ian, but I thought this excerpt was interesting -

[FONT=open_sans]"So there are still those moments when my brain hasn't caught up with my new life, and those moments are very hard."[/FONT][FONT=open_sans]What's also been hard, she admits, is that writing the book made her re-examine her relationship with JS, "and that was really painful, because the rose-tinted specs came off.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]"When you're married, you're so busy living it that you don't have time to examine it. But now I look back, and I'm suddenly faced with 'Ooh, he didn't behave very well there', 'Why didn't we talk about that?', and 'That really wasn't healthy'. And so I decided to include that in the book, because I felt it was very much a part of grieving.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]"For some people it goes the other way," she adds. "Some people are married to absolute bastards, and then after they've died it's 'Oh, he was the most wonderful man in the world'. Whereas I'm certainly not saying he was a , but he was very alpha male and very stubborn, and I made excuses for him in a way that I wouldn't do now.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]"It's been fascinating to me, and very painful. I just jumped back and thought 'Oh my God, I can't put this book out, leaving it as if everything in the garden was rosy. It wasn't.'"[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]

Read more: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/hus...tory-27997055-detail/story.html#ixzz4ENPYnLv3

[/FONT]

 

[Alyce]

Going through the article recently posted again https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...issing-mystery-disappearance-childrens-author I must have missed this before -

Chief Inspector Wheatley says

"[FONT="]she doesn’t think the note was a suicide note. “To me, and I’ve seen many suicide notes, that’s not a suicide note. It is not like that. It just said: “Need some space. Going to Broadstairs.”[/FONT][/COLOR]

So it does exist, even though "[COLOR=#333333][FONT="]She is unable to give any details of what the note looked like or confirm whether it was typed or handwritten."[/FONT]

I wondered about that.
The way CI Wheatley said it, I thought it could mean that

1.either she actually saw the note
or
2. she was only told verbally, by IS, what the contents of the note were.

And, based on what he told her was written in the note, she decided that the words did not sound like any suicide note that she had ever seen.

I am only slightly suspicious about this because the police have declined to state whether the note was handwritten or typed, so I actually wonder if they have ever seen a note, or just taken ISs word for it that there was one.

 

[Alyce]

Tortoise I also went through my on line notes and back through this thread and definately, somewhere, there was a comment or note regarding the COD for ISs wife, which I also cannot find now.

 

[Alyce]

For all of us in the UK

TV Programme tonight. 9pm on ITV Called The Investigator

Mark Williams-Thomas, re-examines a previously ‘closed’ and chilling murder case, which has baffled detectives for more than 30 years.

The murder of Carole Packman, whose body has never been found.

In June 1985 the wife and mother mysteriously disappeared and has never been seen since. Her husband Russell Causley is now serving a life sentence for her murder, yet no body has ever been found. Throughout the case he pleaded his innocence and refused to talk.

Read more: http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...tory-itv-thursday-9pm-1-8005154#ixzz4ENrswepk

 

[Satchie]

Going through the article recently posted again https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...issing-mystery-disappearance-childrens-author I must have missed this before -

Chief Inspector Wheatley says

"[FONT=&quot]she doesn’t think the note was a suicide note. “To me, and I’ve seen many suicide notes, that’s not a suicide note. It is not like that. It just said: “Need some space. Going to Broadstairs.”[/FONT]

So it does exist, even though "[FONT=&quot]She is unable to give any details of what the note looked like or confirm whether it was typed or handwritten."[/FONT]

Thanks for flagging that. From her wording, it's possible IS told them there was a note but that he'd thrown it away.

Either way, whether they have the note or just a verbal description, it's a remarkably brusque, uncommunicative note to have come from a professional writer with a big heart. Wouldn't she say 'I'm sorry' or 'don't worry' or 'I'll be in touch' or 'It's not you, it's me'. Wouldn't she address the note to IS and sign it at the minimum with 'H', but probably something much more considerate and kinder.

The more I think about it, the more I feel the note is so out of character, it raised suspicions immediately.

 

[faybradshaw]

As a matter of interest, I noticed the media did not reveal the amount that IS's bail has been set at. Do you they not do this in the UK? Here in SA, the bail amount is always stated.

 

[Alyce]

Fay, I was just having a look to see if any costs are shown in the UK for bail, but so far, cant see any standard quotes.

I am assuming IS has been released on police bail ( rather than court bail ) - below are a list of the terms, he could have had some or all of these imposed.
I would guess he has had to surrender his passport at the very least, but not sure if he would have to put up a surety of any kind.

Bail Conditions
Your bail from the police station may be conditional or unconditional. If there are conditions attached to your bail, you may for example be told that you have to reside at a specific address, report to a local police station, stay inside your house at certain hours of the day, not contact certain people or go to certain places, or provide a surety (a sum of money that you may lose if you fail to attend court.) You may also be told to surrender your passport.


http://www.courtroomadvice.co.uk/police-court-bail.html

 

[Tortoise]

As a matter of interest, I noticed the media did not reveal the amount that IS's bail has been set at. Do you they not do this in the UK? Here in SA, the bail amount is always stated.

Mmm, I don't think it's usual here.

I don't even know how they set an amount. Surely has to be enough to make sure they don't run away.