GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[katydid23]

At the end of the panaroma documentary on bbc Iplayer; Dr B final discussion on the question put to him, his reaction tells an unspeakable volume; this must have been absolute living hell for the consultants too. In the name of trying protecting those they cared for, they deserve nothing but respect and compassion for trying to do the right thing. It really saddens me (myself included) how badly staff are treated when they try to raise concerns that should not be dismissed the way they are. I hope they too are able to find some peace in what must have been a truly agonising point in their lives along with all the parents involved. So very sad.

It must have been horrifying and terrifying after they had been doing crash cart resuscitations repeatedly, losing many of the babies, so unexpectedly.

And when they first politely suggested to Nurse Letby that she might need to take a break after a few traumatic losses, and close calls, she rejected the idea and asked for MORE turns in nursery one, not less. That was even more horrifying, I am sure.

 

[Officer Dibble]

This explains why the kid gloves from the Judge

Lucy Letby always wanted to work with children, court heard

After completing her A-levels at a sixth form college, she went on to study nursing at the University of Chester.

www.standard.co.uk

I'm wondering if forever, even before the PTSD this was happening? "I’m very sensitive to any noise, any unexpected change or new people. I am easily startled, easily frightened of things.” JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

That's what my grandmother used to do as well. But that was in the 50's and 60's. It seemed odd to put her 21st birthday announcement in the paper though.

Exactly its very very old fashioned thing to do in the UK. JMO

 

[Eloise]

From the Daily Mail article I posted above:

Letby, whose duvet bore the childlike motif 'Sweet Dreams', came to court most days with a comfort blanket and clutched a small, stress toy in her hands while in the witness box.

A comfort blanket? She's 32/33 years old! I wonder if she was completely infantilised by her parents and took out her resentment on the babies. It's such a sinister combination of child killer and Disney. JMO.

I'm wondering if forever, even before the PTSD this was happening? "I’m very sensitive to any noise, any unexpected change or new people. I am easily startled, easily frightened of things.” JMO

Today is the first day I’ve ever heard Lucy’s voice. She’s so softly spoken, intelligent. She could have had a tremendous, loving life. What went wrong?

IMO - all of this is evidence of her narcissism. JMO IMO

She deliberately manipulates people by coming across as softly spoken and innocent. Just a sweet widdle baby nurse. So gentle, so sensitive, blah blah blah. This charade let her literally get away with multiple murders and still has (some of) those closest to her going on TV defending her and saying she could never.

IMO, she probably doesn't feel most human emotions at all and those she does are purely about HERSELF. JMO.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Ah ok, my mistake. Thanks.

Still, I know some people questioned whether she herself had been a vulnerable baby.

I heard it as premature and difficult

 

[Dotta]

It is incredibly sinister. Almost like a line out of a bad American TV movie.

Why exactly AMERICAN???

 

[silvercrown]

Sorry I've not caught up with all the posts yet so someone may have already said this, but her actions after the killings makes me think she enjoyed it IMO. The souvenirs and the Facebook searches etc.

Yeah. Whether she enjoyed the act of killing, or whatever twisted thrill she got out of it is much of a muchness to me. IMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

So interesting. She probably enjoyed all the attention she got the first times a baby passed away (naturally) and started harming them herself to get the same thrill. Sick.

you know it could be that (horribly) simple. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

having spent years nursing I've been considering this case from the perspective of a nurse.

I've met nurses that should never have been nurses, that lacked compassion and basic humanity and I detested them.
But if I had ever seen one of them harming a patient and if the hospital authorities didn't take a complaint seriously i would have been down at the police station and told them I would have been going there.

The police would look for proof because they need everything handed to them.
It's unlikely I would have had any proof unless I had video evidence but most nurses wouldn't film it, they'd stop it..

There exists a culture of secrecy in hospitals.
i look back and remember taking care of a 4 bedded ICU, otorhinolaryngology unit, a 2 bedded emergency serious epistaxis ward, and a 16 bedded general ENT, all at the same time with one other nurse at most, at least 4 patients would have been post laryngectomy, requiring almost constant suctioning...
12 hr shifts.

And we were meant to make porridge and give out breakfasts too because it was not considered appropriate for the kitchen staff to come in too early..

It was dangerous. Constantly dangerous.
It continues today.
Still dangerous.

 

[Sundial]

Exactly its very very old fashioned thing to do in the UK. JMO

It is, but in some sense I kind of get that “why”, my own family had previously come from Hereford too originally and I don’t know if this is the same thing in other places in the uk, but my own mother can sometimes be overbearing/suffocating in the same way as described by LL in her messages regarding hers. Granted, I am not an only child, whether that makes any difference I don’t know.

However; her parents do remind me in some way of my grandparents and that of my mother (their daughter). Only recently I was having a conversation with my mum about something totally unrelated, who said;

“That is why they say, a daughter is a daughter all her life, but a son is only that until he takes a wife”. It is a very old saying, a very outdated saying, but one my own mother still views. She gets rather irritated and hostile with me when I am not at her every whim, not so much or at all with my brother though. The view is, a daughter is supposed to be there for her parents all her life. And in the days of providing for the family (I’m talking 1930s-1990s), young boys only did so until he had a wife and family of his own to provide for.

In Hereford this I do know was a very strongly upheld value. In my mums era, it still is now. There’s also this theory of milestone birthdays, eg; 16, 18, 21 (key to the door), 30, 40.. calling of marriage bands. In terms of graduation, if you imagine in their time how different that was re funding and opportunities. They are set in those very old fashioned ways I still see in my own mother and that same sort of age group. It’s odd to todays world, I totally agree.. but to them it’s the norm I guess.

 

[Marantz4250b]

IMO - all of this is evidence of her narcissism. JMO IMO

She deliberately manipulates people by coming across as softly spoken and innocent. Just a sweet widdle baby nurse. So gentle, so sensitive, blah blah blah. This charade let her literally get away with multiple murders and still has (some of) those closest to her going on TV defending her and saying she could never.

IMO, she probably doesn't feel most human emotions at all and those she does are purely about HERSELF. JMO.

I'm not sure that it's as simple as that. I'm in no way qualified to comment but I think that that is her genuine personality. It's not an act or a conscious decision to manipulate people, I don't think.

It's compelling to look for easy answers, and I tend to think that its human nature to look for them, but I don't think they exist with people like her, tbh. She's a very complicated person

 

[CS2C]

I still can’t get over being in court and hearing about her social life, all the while she must have known the wheels had fallen off and she was in deep deep strife.

Nights out getting drunk, shopping, eating out

All as if nothing is wrong…Just incredible

 

[Officer Dibble]

Thinking back to her tantrum when Dr Choc was on the stand, she knew that was the last time she would ever see his face, and he chose to testify from behind a screen.

I've posted an article about Dr Choc this evening.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I hope she didn't kill the babies to spend more time with her Dr boyfriend - how sad

 

[Pinkizzy]

I've posted an article about Dr Choc this evening.

Where?

 

[Sundial]

having spent years nursing I've been considering this case from the perspective of a nurse.

I've met nurses that should never have been nurses, that lacked compassion and basic humanity and I detested them.
But if I had ever seen one of them harming a patient and if the hospital authorities didn't take a complaint seriously i would have been down at the police station and told them I would have been going there.

The police would look for proof because they need everything handed to them.
It's unlikely I would have had any proof unless I had video evidence but most nurses wouldn't film it, they'd stop it..

There exists a culture of secrecy in hospitals.
i look back and remember taking care of a 4 bedded ICU, otorhinolaryngology unit, a 2 bedded emergency serious epistaxis ward, and a 16 bedded general ENT, all at the same time with one other nurse at most, at least 4 patients would have been post laryngectomy, requiring almost constant suctioning...
12 hr shifts.

And we were meant to make porridge and give out breakfasts too because it was not considered appropriate for the kitchen staff to come in too early..

It was dangerous. Constantly dangerous.
It continues today.
Still dangerous.

Absolutely. About 15 years ago I recall having a major dispute with my manager over the way they were treating patients. To put it mildly; I was told right there to Jeff off because I had confronted their disgusting behaviour and told them what they were doing and directing staff into that position without telling them what was going on; was a position of distrust and abuse them. Yes it went down horribly for me- but the tears of that person affected by it was absolutely awful I had to do something. And yet, those at the top sit pretty whilst everyone else around them are trashed. It needs to change, historically, if you think about all the other cases- *when* will this actually change?

 

[Becky53]

Bid to exclude evidence of prosecution medical expert was refused by judge.​

Retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans was tasked by police to look at a series of collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal ward.

Lucy Letby’s legal team failed in a bid to throw out the evidence of the prosecution’s lead medical expert.

Three months into the murder trial at Manchester Crown Court they applied to exclude the evidence of retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans.


Dr Evans was tasked by Cheshire Police to look at a series of collapses on the neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospital in 2015 and 2016.

He wrote a number of reports about his findings and went on to give evidence from last October onwards about many of the children that Letby was said to have harmed.

In January, Ben Myers KC, defending, applied to trial judge Mr Justice Goss – in the absence of the jury – to strike out the evidence Dr Evans had given on seven babies and stop him returning to the witness box.

The barrister submitted that Dr Evans had failed to act with the independence, impartiality and objectivity required of such a witness.

However Mr Justice Goss refused the application and said it was for the jury “to determine, as with any witness, his (Dr Evans’s) reliability, having regard to all the evidence in the case”.

Bid to exclude evidence of prosecution medical expert was refused by judge

Retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans was tasked by police to look at a series of collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal ward.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Officer Dibble]

Another interesting read

Forensic psychologist gives terrifying verdict on Lucy Letby's sickening crimes

Professor Mike Berry, of Liverpool’s John Moores University says there are many similarities between killed nurses Lucy Letby and Beverley Allitt, who was jailed for life in 1991

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Sundial]

I've posted an article about Dr Choc this evening.

Where can I find this please?

 

[kittythehare]

Absolutely. About 15 years ago I recall having a major dispute with my manager over the way they were treating patients. To put it mildly; I was told right there to Jeff off because I had confronted their disgusting behaviour and told them what they were doing and directing staff into that position without telling them what was going on; was a position of distrust and abuse them. Yes it went down horribly for me- but the tears of that person affected by it was absolutely awful I had to do something. And yet, those at the top sit pretty whilst everyone else around them are trashed. It needs to change, historically, if you

When health services are adequately supervised funded and staffed.

It's nothing short of a miracle that things don't go this wrong more often.

it's a horrible culture.

If i knew then what I know now I would have studied carpentry.
Change is resisted, medical and nursing codes of ethics are in constant breach..
One simply cannot provide safe care with unsafe staffing levels.
Breach of professional standards .

I only stayed because I loved my patients.