GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[May72031]

Why exactly AMERICAN???

Ha. I'm probably thinking of all those trashy American TV movies Channel 5 (in the UK) show.

 

[Dotta]

I do. I think it was after Baby P.

Me too.
I was mad
(El colmo!)

 

[Sundial]

When health services are adequately supervised funded and staffed.

It's nothing short of a miracle that things don't go this wrong more often.

it's a horrible culture.

If i knew then what I know now I would have studied carpentry.
Change is resisted, medical and nursing codes of ethics are in constant breach..
One simply cannot provide safe care with unsafe staffing levels.
Breach of professional standards .

I only stayed because I loved my patients.

perhaps.. but I think one major backlash of this will actually be managerial positions and failure to act when there was adaquate staffing. The evidence and LL herself professed that this was not the issue. It’s rife in most health/public environments (not just the nhs but private care too) where management abuse their position or totally disregard it. Dr J statement today empathises this better than I ever can. In my example, you only have to look back at the Francis enquiry published in 2013. That was directly from the awful mid staffs hospital failings and yet that enquiry has been totally undermined by this. Again, managerial failure to act sooner and throwing everyone who speaks out to protect their patients under the bus. It’s really, so very very utterly sad.

 

[Jw192]

Lucifer frigging Letby.

I've been waiting the whole of trial to say that.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure that it's as simple as that. I'm in no way qualified to comment but I think that that is her genuine personality. It's not an act or a conscious decision to manipulate people, I don't think.

It's compelling to look for easy answers, and I tend to think that its human nature to look for them, but I don't think they exist with people like her, tbh. She's a very complicated person

I don't think it could be her 'genuine personality', that she is soft spoken and innocent, if she is truly guilty of killing babies in her care.

It would have to be her mask, her way of manipulating because she is NOT soft and innocent. She attacked some babies 3 and 4 times, relentlessly. And all the while would have spent time softly reassuring their parents and innocently updating her colleagues on the little ones in her care.

I don't think she is all that complicated. I think she is someone with severe selfishness who learned to get her own way by acting sweet and innocent, while doing cruel evil things in the dark. JMO

 

[Sundial]

I do. I think it was after Baby P.

Another harrowing example, that was so awful I actually cried for a week that such cruelty could continue to the depth it did.

 

[katydid23]

Bid to exclude evidence of prosecution medical expert was refused by judge.​

Retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans was tasked by police to look at a series of collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal ward.

Lucy Letby’s legal team failed in a bid to throw out the evidence of the prosecution’s lead medical expert.

Three months into the murder trial at Manchester Crown Court they applied to exclude the evidence of retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans.


Dr Evans was tasked by Cheshire Police to look at a series of collapses on the neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospital in 2015 and 2016.

He wrote a number of reports about his findings and went on to give evidence from last October onwards about many of the children that Letby was said to have harmed.

In January, Ben Myers KC, defending, applied to trial judge Mr Justice Goss – in the absence of the jury – to strike out the evidence Dr Evans had given on seven babies and stop him returning to the witness box.

The barrister submitted that Dr Evans had failed to act with the independence, impartiality and objectivity required of such a witness.

However Mr Justice Goss refused the application and said it was for the jury “to determine, as with any witness, his (Dr Evans’s) reliability, having regard to all the evidence in the case”.

Bid to exclude evidence of prosecution medical expert was refused by judge

Retired consultant paediatrician Dewi Evans was tasked by police to look at a series of collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal ward.

www.standard.co.uk

Thank Goodness. Justice Goss has done a very measured and thorough job, imo. God Bless Him. This must have taken a lot out of him.

 

[lonetraveler]

What took so long to come to a guilty verdict?

 

[kittythehare]

perhaps.. but I think one major backlash of this will actually be managerial positions and failure to act when there was adaquate staffing. The evidence and LL herself professed that this was not the issue. It’s rife in most health/public environments (not just the nhs but private care too) where management abuse their position or totally disregard it. Dr J statement today empathises this better than I ever can. In my example, you only have to look back at the Francis enquiry published in 2013. That was directly from the awful mid staffs hospital failings and yet that enquiry has been totally undermined by this. Again, managerial failure to act sooner and throwing everyone who speaks out to protect their patients under the bus. It’s really, so very very utterly sad.

It's criminal as well as tragic.
Moral Injury is constant.
Look at covid management, for example and that's almost uniformly dangerous in every country in the world.
protest falls on deaf ears even though the elephant in that case is truly the room.
Still, ignored.
But doctors being forced to write apology letters and grovel at Florrie nightingale's whimpering pleasure is a step too far.
Completely outrageous and they will fight back and they're getting support from other respected doctors.

Macabre.

 

[Sundial]

Posting this just in case anyone wants a read: in 2013 The Francis report directly linked to the mid staffs hospital NHS

10 years later, 2023.. here we are again. Perhaps government should ask; what did they learn in 2013 from Robert Francis report that management completely ignored 10 years later? This can’t keep happening.
EBM

Francis report

Our position

www.nmc.org.uk

 

[Sundial]

It's criminal as well as tragic.
Moral Injury is constant.
Look at covid management, for example and that's almost uniformly dangerous in every country in the world.
protest falls on deaf ears even though the elephant in that case is truly the room.
Still, ignored.
But doctors being forced to write apology letters and grovel at Florrie nightingale's whimpering pleasure is a step too far.
Completely outrageous and they will fight back and they're getting support from other respected doctors.

Macabre.

They will get support from the wider, medical, nursing and healthcare community, undoubtedly. Managerial’s failures in listening to the people on the floor, on the bottom, that first hand account of what’s going on.. the whistleblowers: This has to stop.

 

[kittythehare]

They will get support from the wider, medical, nursing and healthcare community, undoubtedly. Managerial’s failures in listening to the people on the floor, on the bottom, that first hand account of what’s going on.. the whistleblowers: This has to stop.

It will stop when they are prosecuted for criminal negligence, not before is my opinion.
a flurry of media reports never stopped them before because they expected it all to die down within days and it invariably did and status quo..

 

[Highlandspring]

I've seen people on here saying she enjoyed killing. I don't think that's necessarily the case. It could have been some kind of sick compulsion, with no enjoyment involved.

I don't know about the killing part, but the fact she could bear to cause even one second of pain to the most vulnerable children possible and remain calm/show no empathy tells me she didn't DISlike it.

 

[kittythehare]

The government’s inquiry will now try to untangle what happened and how Letby could have harmed babies for so long without being stopped. Investigators will look at “how concerns raised by clinicians were dealt with” by the hospital, the Department of Health and Social Care said.
But the format chosen — a nonstatutory public inquiry — means that investigators will not have the power to issue subpoenas compelling witnesses to testify, or to collect evidence under oath. The government in its statement said this “was found to be the most appropriate option, building on the approach taken in other cases,” and “will focus on lessons that can be learned quickly.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/18/lucy-letby-neonatal-nurse-murder-guilty/?utm_campaign=wp_for_you&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_personalizedforyou&utm_content=contentpacks_CP-4__position1

!!!

 

[kittythehare]

I don't know about the killing part, but the fact she could bear to cause even one second of pain to the most vulnerable children possible and remain calm/show no empathy tells me she didn't DISlike it.

every behaviour has a positive intention.
she believed she gained something from it.

 

[Stella123]

Hi. Haven’t been on here for a while. I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before but what I find strange is howcolkeagues didn’t notice anything unusual at the time. Insulin isn’t a controlled drug to be signed for but surely someone kept a check on the insulin supplies and would have noticed more being used. And surely someone would have seen her putting insulin in a drip. Basically - surely other staff on duty with her would have had conversations - like - I’m just going to do xyz. There would have been patient care plans.

Unless she was in sole charge at various times? It was definitely premeditated because she used medical knowledge knowing an overdose of insulin kills and is hard to trace. MOO

 

[kittythehare]

I've seen people on here saying she enjoyed killing. I don't think that's necessarily the case. It could have been some kind of sick compulsion, with no enjoyment involved.

Even compulsions have a pleasure factor.
Whatever thy ar, thy bring about a change in the doer.
I see no evidence of empathic qualities or real compassion or regret in LL.
She just went salsa dancing after a few hours, didn't she?
It's not like she stayed home brooding or grieving.
There was an element of smug.
Sending the cards..
Stalking their social media..
now why would anybody do that?
only because it brought pleasure..

She did that and now they were having a tragic Christmas and she simply had to see that...
She didn't forget them.
It was not the act of a repentant person, it was the act of a controlling sadistic narcissist.

 

[kittythehare]

Hi. Haven’t been on here for a while. I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before but what I find strange is howcolkeagues didn’t notice anything unusual at the time. Insulin isn’t a controlled drug to be signed for but surely someone kept a check on the insulin supplies and would have noticed more being used. And surely someone would have seen her putting insulin in a drip. Basically - surely other staff on duty with her would have had conversations - like - I’m just going to do xyz. There would have been patient care plans.

Unless she was in sole charge at various times? It was definitely premeditated because she used medical knowledge knowing an overdose of insulin kills and is hard to trace. MOO

Insulin is not controlled and the amount taken would be miniscule.
it took very little to kill a baby, possibly not even noticed from the vial.
She may even have had a way to reseal the vials so they appeared untouched.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[JennieM]

A staff chart showed that Lucy Letby was present at every chilling incident involving children on the ward

All the missed chances to stop evil nurse Lucy Letby murdering babies

On up to ten occasions, suspicions were raised or events happened that linked her to the spike in deaths or collapses on the Countess of Chester Hospital's neo-natal unit.

www.dailymail.co.uk