UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #36

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Yes, this demonstrates quite a lot of bias and overstepping the bounds of his expertise (unless he's also trained in forensic pathology). He can comment on the evidence, but he can't announce that no murders were committed.

Imagine if birds were flying through an area where noxious gases / pollution killed them. If a vet examined each bird individually, they might conclude respiratory or cardiac failure without acknowledging any external causes. The people finding the birds dropping to the ground, however, would have quite a different perspective about what might have caused it.
I’m not saying it’s the right way to go about it- but what they have done is get experienced professionals from various countries to relook at all the evidence from a medical perspective- 14 of them (more than the jury number) and they reached a different conclusion to that which was represented and therefore judged upon. They also made mention during the questions at the end (which quite honestly were more insightful than most q&a sessions are), that statisticians had situated the statistics, medical professionals had disputed the medical facts (and I can’t remember who else, but on other area had been criticised by an expert in that field)- so a lot of people, with a wide array of expertise, not together, but independently are unconvinced. There was also a doctor in the questions session who had reported the expert witness to the medical council as him and a colleague felt he shouldn’t have been allowed to present himself as an expert witness and wanted to know what the outcome of that was, of course they didn’t get an answer, but it has been raised in the Thirwell inquiry. We have not seen the report that was given to the press, we did hear a list of the people involved in the report and as one journalist stated- between them they have done hours of research and written hundreds of published reports, yet the expert witness has never written a published report. It may seem immaterial to some, but those published reports are how you progress in your career, they are how you can become a professor and an expert in that field. It was one comment that really did make me question how he is an expert compared to any other medical witnesses put forwards through the trial.
 
Funny how the large number of deaths stopped when she was removed from the unit.

That tells me either she is guilty or someone else was doing it to frame her.
As they said in the conference today- the unit was downgraded the same day LL stopped working there, so not necessarily a fair conclusion to confirm guilt on.
 
They are giving their opinions that the medical evidence doesn't support murder, but there is so much more to these cases.

(Some examples: witnesses describing things Lucy said and did, the note she wrote, the medical records she brought home and what she did with them, her searches of the victims' social media at specific times, the systematic ways in which the causes of death kept mysteriously changing, the evidence regarding how she altered victims' medical records, etc...)

IMO/JMO.

Yes, apparently we're supposed to put ^all this (and so much damning more as revealed in the Thirlwall Inquiry) aside, shrug, consider it surplus to requirements and basically and effectively pretend it never happened and wipe it from our collective memories. Right.

This is so disturbing, not least that so much of the MSM is shamefully lapping up what is blatant and ego-driven agenda-laden propaganda.
 
"There were no murders"

I told you these Letbyists were a bunch of cranks and conspiracy theorists. The people in the media giving these creeps credence need to suffer a LOT of reputational damage.
I don't think you can blame the media for simply covering a news story. It's one of the defining trials/criminal cases so far this century so I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to just ignore things like this.

Not looked at the reporting in depth today as I've been busy but what I have seen doesn't appear to be unreasonably sensationalist, imo.

Her defence team holding these rather seedy press conferences, however, are an entirely different matter! The bodies who govern the various sectors of the legal profession really need to get a handle on this.
 
I don't think you can blame the media for simply covering a news story. It's one of the defining trials/criminal cases so far this century so I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to just ignore things like this.

Not looked at the reporting in depth today as I've been busy but what I have seen doesn't appear to be unreasonably sensationalist, imo.

Her defence team holding these rather seedy press conferences, however, are an entirely different matter! The bodies who govern the various sectors of the legal profession really need to get a handle on this.
We CAN blame the media for parroting their disinformation.
 
Yes, apparently we're supposed to put ^all this (and so much damning more as revealed in the Thirlwall Inquiry) aside, shrug, consider it surplus to requirements and basically and effectively pretend it never happened and wipe it from our collective memories. Right.

This is so disturbing, not least that so much of the MSM is shamefully lapping up what is blatant and ego-driven agenda-laden propaganda.
None of that will be put aside in a re trial. I am sure in light of everything that’s going on and being reported the police will also be doing there best to back up there evidence, they won’t be sat there thinking this is now laid to rest and we can just move on. The Thirwell enquiry has also had some evidence that backs up what was reported today about general levels of care and experience at the unit and some of the parents have also, even after they have a conviction, raised doubts about the overall unit and not just LL herself during the Thirwell enquiry. <modsnip> I’m still neither convinced she is guilty or innocent- but I do plough through stuff (the originals, not the highlights), but there is no other logic for so many professionals to speak out without reason and me not to wonder if there were failings.
 
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We CAN blame the media for parroting their disinformation.
If all they are doing is reporting what they've said then I fail to see how you can blame a news agency for that? If that was worthy of blame then no news outlet would be able to publish anything that hadn't been given an official "truth" stamp on it.

If they weren't allowed (or collectively refused) to publish what's been said today then we wouldn't know about it to be able to criticise it for the rubbish that it most likely is.
 
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In all honesty I never found the air embolism idea fully convincing - there wasn't clear physical evidence for it in most cases (I think there was maybe one x-ray showing air bubbles?), merely opinion/guesswork, and so I'm not overly surprised that someone finally came out of the woodwork to dispute it (although why that didn't happen during the trial, when it should have been raised, is a question).

BUT, the rest of the evidence leads to a big picture where it's really impossible to conclude anything other than murder, and the media really need to focus on the whole of it. The insulin cases, the other injuries, and particularly the twin cases where one had insulin and one possible air embolism - way too much coincidence for the same combination of injuries/ailments to happen in two separate pairs of twins. And the timings of collapses, especially when they magically happen as soon as LL returns from holiday, or when something's triggered her ire. The mother finding LL ignoring her baby screaming in pain and bleeding; the doctor finding LL standing over a baby mid-collapse.

There may be some cause other than air embolism for many collapses, or it may be air embolism despite the experts here, but the overall picture is clear: this is not a miscarriage of justice. Those who believe it is may want to go back and read the earlier threads as we followed the trial, as those went over the evidence in detail, which is much more convincing than the limited highlights we see reported now. I was very sceptical until the trial, and during the early part of it, but the weight of evidence as a whole was fully convincing by the end of it - but had I not followed in detail via these threads, I'd probably still be a sceptic, full information really matters.
 
In all honesty I never found the air embolism idea fully convincing - there wasn't clear physical evidence for it in most cases (I think there was maybe one x-ray showing air bubbles?), merely opinion/guesswork, and so I'm not overly surprised that someone finally came out of the woodwork to dispute it (although why that didn't happen during the trial, when it should have been raised, is a question).

BUT, the rest of the evidence leads to a big picture where it's really impossible to conclude anything other than murder, and the media really need to focus on the whole of it. The insulin cases, the other injuries, and particularly the twin cases where one had insulin and one possible air embolism - way too much coincidence for the same combination of injuries/ailments to happen in two separate pairs of twins. And the timings of collapses, especially when they magically happen as soon as LL returns from holiday, or when something's triggered her ire. The mother finding LL ignoring her baby screaming in pain and bleeding; the doctor finding LL standing over a baby mid-collapse.

There may be some cause other than air embolism for many collapses, or it may be air embolism despite the experts here, but the overall picture is clear: this is not a miscarriage of justice. Those who believe it is may want to go back and read the earlier threads as we followed the trial, as those went over the evidence in detail, which is much more convincing than the limited highlights we see reported now. I was very sceptical until the trial, and during the early part of it, but the weight of evidence as a whole was fully convincing by the end of it - but had I not followed in detail via these threads, I'd probably still be a sceptic, full information really matters.
Regarding the bolded part of your post - as people here will remember, I was exactly the same. My thoughts were that it was all a massive mess up and that she'd be acquitted.

Having followed things on here virtually daily during the trial there is no doubt in my mind that she's rightly guilty. As you say, however, it's very difficult to get the weight of evidence across to people who haven't followed it closely. You can't just cherry-pick certain pieces out here and there and use them in isolation to "prove" that she was wrongly convicted.

There's a very good video by Alan Robertshaw who does the Art of Law channel on YouTube which was uploaded a few hours ago wherein he points out that the paper that Dr Lee published way back in 1989 actually dealt with pulmonary embolisms (which are caused by over pressure ventilation into the lungs) not ones caused by directly injected air to the bloodstream so that paper is of dubious evidentiary value to begin with as they aren't comparing the same thing! In addition, that issue was mentioned either in her trial or appeal application or both!

Not sure I'm allowed to post it so I won't in case it gets the post pulled (and me into WS jail again) but someone else might want to find it and post a link.
 

"Why are medical experts disputing evidence used to convict Lucy Letby?


1738698094041.jpeg

The case against the former nurse has been extremely complex from the outset -
not least because nobody saw Letby attack the seven babies she was convicted of murdering,
nor did anyone witness the attempted murder of seven others.

Instead,
prosecutors had to draw on technical medical evidence -
along with statistical data
and other troubling details about Letby's life -
in order to prove their case.

- Who are the experts who believe Letby is innocent?

- How do the panel think the babies might have died?

- Could Letby appeal her convictions again?

- What do other experts say about the case?"


The answers are in the link:


"The 14 hospital 'failures'

which experts claim

exonerates serial child killer Lucy Letby."


 
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I find it disturbing that this panel of medical experts is stating there were no murders, as if it's an indisputable fact. They have no doubt looked at each individual case based on the medical details, without knowing the context of each of the incidents that we heard about throughout the trial. Have these experts heard the testimony of the medical staff who were actually working there and witnessed the mayhem in the unit time after time? Do they think LL's strange and unprofessional behaviour, which was presented throughout the trial, is totally irrelevant?

It's not surprising that when looking at each case in isolation, they could conclude there is no evidence for murder. And I would ask: What evidence would they need in order to conclude a murder had been committed? There will never be any witnesses to this kind of crime, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 
I find it disturbing that this panel of medical experts is stating there were no murders, as if it's an indisputable fact. They have no doubt looked at each individual case based on the medical details, without knowing the context of each of the incidents that we heard about throughout the trial. Have these experts heard the testimony of the medical staff who were actually working there and witnessed the mayhem in the unit time after time? Do they think LL's strange and unprofessional behaviour, which was presented throughout the trial, is totally irrelevant?

It's not surprising that when looking at each case in isolation, they could conclude there is no evidence for murder. And I would ask: What evidence would they need in order to conclude a murder had been committed? There will never be any witnesses to this kind of crime, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It's an utter disgrace, to say something like that, imo! They should be ashamed.

They are not legal experts; they are not criminal investigators; very few - if any of them - will have followed the trial in any detail what-so-ever.

She was not convicted because of medical evidence!

She was not convicted because of statistical evidence!

She was not convicted because of her incessant searching of the families of dead babies!

She was not convicted because of the 257 hand-over sheets she was in possession of!

She was not convicted because a group of consultants had grave concerns as to the fact that these things always seemed to happen around her!

She was not convicted because when she came home from holidays all hell would break loose and babies would start collapsing and dying with startling regularity!

I could go on and on as we here could.

She was convicted because of the weight of all of these factors along with many, many more all coming together to form a very solid and robust case against her. When you actually read the history of the entiere ten month case the conclusion really is inescapable. She's guilty.
 
So, what theory are the new defence team going with, regarding Baby O's injury?

First it was from CPR resus, then a doctor wrongly inserting a needle, and now, it is from the trauma of a caesarean birth! They will be blaming the poor plumber, next!
 
What do they feel they are achieving by a press conference? Why if they are confident of their findings are they not just quietly following procedure? A genuine question...what are they up to
 
What do they feel they are achieving by a press conference? Why if they are confident of their findings are they not just quietly following procedure? A genuine question...what are they up to
I’d go for trying to change public opinion and get as much attention as possible before the next lot of charges arrive and they have to be quiet. Along with trying to make out their new “evidence” is so important it had to be shared publicly and urgently rather than just going through the usual process like everybody else.
 
So, what theory are the new defence team going with, regarding Baby O's injury?

First it was from CPR resus, then a doctor wrongly inserting a needle, and now, it is from the trauma of a caesarean birth! They will be blaming the poor plumber, next!
The parents statement on the Thirwell inquiry certainly implicates the doctors to a large degree
 

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