UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[magikarpmagikarp]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed but refers to The link in this post.>

I did find that article to be full of emotion but very short on facts.

The RCPCH invited review in section 3.10 stated that conditions in COCH were not materially different from similar units across the NHS. That is - there were shortfalls but these were not substantially different than the shortfalls of any other unit.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I was always interested, in whose weird mind, given that the doctors didn't see the babies for 72 hours, as Dr. Gibbs admitted for his case, given pseudomonas colonization of the hospital, the idea of even needing a "nurse killer" for the babies to die emerged. Now I got another name. Dr. Saladi. Who stated that Letby was behind every collapse. This is in inquiry and MSM.

Drs. Breary and Jay made themselves visible. Drs. Newby and Saladi were not. But it seems that the initial accusations come from them?

 

[katydid23]

Except for when they weren't available, which shouldn’t be ignored.
There is a massive difference between twice a day and twice a week- they are opposing ends that were used in the trial to reinforce the gaping difference between normal (in a perfect world) and what was happening.
None of us can know now what difference that would have made- but I doubt it would have been a negative impact and would imagine more visibility and supervision on the ward would have led to more DATIXs being completed etc etc etc as I have said before.
Two of the babies at trial were found to have suffered sub optimal care and were not then attributed to LL.

Child H, two allegations of attempted murder. Prosecutors said Letby sabotaged the care of the baby girl in some way which led to two profound oxygen desaturations. The defence said elements of Child H’s care were suboptimal and there could be innocent explanations for the episodes – COUNT 10 NOT GUILTY, COUNT 11 JURY COULD NOT REACH VERDICT.

Child N, three allegations of attempted murder. The Crown said Letby inflicted trauma in the baby boy’s throat and also injected him with air in the bloodstream. The defence said Letby committed no harmful acts and there was suboptimal care – COUNT 17 GUILTY, COUNT 18 JURY COULD NOT REACH VERDICT, COUNT 19 JURY COULD NOT REACH VERDICT.

What the prosecution and defence said about each child in the Lucy Letby trial

The nurse faced charges over 17 children.

www.thenational.scot

Ok, so it looks like the jury was paying attention. They decide that in the cases of Baby H and Baby N, there was an element of sub-optimal care and not Lucy Letby at fault.

So in the remaining cases, they did find Nurse Letby to be GUILTY as charged, correct? They did not find any evidence of suboptimal care.

So can we agree that they jury got that right?

 

[May72031]

Drs. Breary and Jay made themselves visible. Drs. Newby and Saladi were not. But it seems that the initial accusations come from them?

So what?

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Recap: Prosecution opens case in Lucy Letby retrial

The prosecution is to begin its opening of its case in the retrial of former Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit nurse Lucy Letby.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Baby K was born at 2:12 am. She was intubated within 20 minutes and back to the unit with 30 minutes (of her birth). By 3:15 (so 3 minutes over the hour) Dr. Jayaram was on the phone with the transport team. The transport hospital could now act as medical control and would advise CoCh. That is how the transport system is intended to work.

When a prenatal transport cannot be arranged, a post natal transport must be arranged. In order to be transported the baby must be stable enough to be moved. That can take hours - because it takes time for the transport team to arrive. It takes time to prepare the baby for transport. If nothing else the repeated extubations can delay transport because you have to stop all the other things you are doing and reintubate. Secure the tube. Get another x ray.

That is the reality. No one has a magic wand.

It is a nonsense statement to say that Baby K should not have been delivered at CoCh. Should she have been delivered "on the M6"? (You can read about that in the link as well.) Would she have had a better chance in the back of ambulance, which is moving, where there are no x ray facilities and no ventilator, which means hand bagging for the duration of the transport. Where the temperature cannot be controlled. Where no one would be able to place an umbilical line. Where there is no "stock" TPN. No she would not have.

She was born in the only place it was safe for her to be born and she was sent as soon as safely possible to Arrow Park. She wasn't at CoCh for days. She was there for the 12 hours it took to get a transport team, stabilize her and move her.

 

[marynnu]

Great summary by @magikarpmagikarp It's also worth mentioning that the main reason for avoiding delivery for extreme prems at Level 1/2 units is not the ability of the staff. It is because neonates do not take well to being transported, which can really set them back.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Great summary by @magikarpmagikarp It's also worth mentioning that the main reason for avoiding delivery for extreme prems at Level 1/2 units is not the ability of the staff. It is because neonates do not take well to being transported, which can really set them back.

BBM for emphasis.

 

[Tortoise]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
94% leak wasn't missed.

Judge: Mr Myers referred to a leak on the ventilator in his closing speech. An Alder Hey consultant said the air leak numbers "did not tally" with the high oxygen saturation readings for Child K. Joanne Williams said if Child K was not receiving the oxygen saturation required, the alarms would have gone off.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 5 - judge's summing up

One can't fault the doctors for not knowing Letby had injected air into their lines, when they were failing to resuscitate the babies.

Where is the evidence for bowel obstruction? Please provide a link to the evidence, and not a spurious claim by some 'elite' doctor who has provided no evidence.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

I also want to add that the decision about whether or not to transport Baby Ks mother prenatally would have been multidisciplinary and possibly even multihospital. In the link to the retrial that I posted above, an OB testifies about the decision to keep Baby Ks mother at Chester. It involves the concern that she might deliver outside of a hospital. The jury heard the argument that Baby K "shouldn't have been born at Chester" and judged that it was irrelevant to the attempted murder charge.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Great summary by @magikarpmagikarp It's also worth mentioning that the main reason for avoiding delivery for extreme prems at Level 1/2 units is not the ability of the staff. It is because neonates do not take well to being transported, which can really set them back.

presumably situations like this are known about and although not ideal, all of the equipment and training is done to ensure that when situations like this happen and they will that the hospital is capable of delivering the necessary care ?

so in essence this situation wasn't actually very unusual. I would assume that pre emies dont schedule their actual birth date and this means that most if not all maternity units can cover for this scenario in case one blesses us with its presence before they were expected which is expected.

 

[marynnu]

presumably situations like this are known about and although not ideal, all of the equipment and training is done to ensure that when situations like this happen and they will that the hospital is capable of delivering the necessary care ?

so in essence this situation wasn't actually very unusual. I would assume that pre emies dont schedule their actual birth date and this means that most if not all maternity units can cover for this scenario in case one blesses us with its presence before they were expected which is expected.

Every single neonatal unit, however small, is equipped to deal with any baby at delivery and to stabilise them until transfer.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Every single neonatal unit, however small, is equipped to deal with any baby at delivery and to stabilise them until transfer.

its interesting as I don't remember hearing this during the trial although i could easily ahve missed it. however the info over the last few pages makes complete sense. you never really know when someone will go into labour especially pre term so it makes sense to equip for the eventuality and that also means training staff to the relevant standard. All i remember hearing is that baby k shouldnt have been born at chester not also that it was more or less usual practice in that circumstance and so nothing unusual or even that the staff were not experienced in it. remember going through the birth and then transfer info though.

 

[marynnu]

its interesting as I don't remember hearing this during the trial although i could easily ahve missed it. however the info over the last few pages makes complete sense. you never really know when someone will go into labour especially pre term so it makes sense to equip for the eventuality and that also means training staff to the relevant standard. All i remember hearing is that baby k shouldnt have been born at chester not also that it was more or less usual practice in that circumstance and so nothing unusual or even that the staff were not experienced in it. remember going through the birth and then transfer info though.

Basically mothers are transferred out if it is safe to do so, but obviously that isn't always possible, as with Baby K. That is an obstetric decision of course. All neonatal and obstetric/midwifery staff are trained in neonatal resus and have regular updates.

 

[Furore]

I would point out that babies are a law unto themselves and come when they come. Sometimes late, sometimes early, sometimes on their due date. Sometimes the mother is on holiday, visiting friends, unable to travel to a tertiary centre with specialist facilities. Even hospitals without neonatal units would have some basic understanding and resus equipment for managing babies.


There are postcode lotteries for all sorts of care, even in adults. Not all hospitals offer brain surgery, major trauma services, cardiothoracics, or even things like interventional radiology or a paediatric icu, but they do have an ED. Therefore anyone can walk in - require stabilisation - and then transfer with a retrieval team. This is super common. Depending on the other jobs the retrieval team has, staffing at their centre, and stability of patient, transfer is undertaken. The last place anyone wants to manage anything is back of the ambulance or unloading the patient in the rain on the hard shoulder of a motorway to perform interventions….

All JMO. In an ideal world all of us would have 24/7 specialist care be hundred metres from our front door for any unplanned eventuality but that’s just not the way the world works. MOO

 

[May72031]

Lucy is now getting support from disgraced pop producer Jonathan King. He is still insisting he was wrongly convicted himself! Lucifer Letby surely does attract some strange people to her corner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915367712135524407

 

[marynnu]

Lucy is now getting support from disgraced pop producer Jonathan King. He is still insisting he was wrongly convicted himself! Lucifer Letby surely does attract some strange people to her corner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915367712135524407

Another old bloke. Not predictable at all.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Laughable.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Lucy is now getting support from disgraced pop producer Jonathan King. He is still insisting he was wrongly convicted himself! Lucifer Letby surely does attract some strange people to her corner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915367712135524407

I honestly think any man should think twice before they "psychoanalyze" her again. They all fail.

Most of interpretations of female behaviors initiated by male psychoanalysts are now obsolete, but at least in their time, they listened to the womens' stories, and they tried. But then, comes one mediocre pediatrician, like Roy Meadow, positions himself as a psychiatrist, and sorry, British psychiatry now is tainted by his twisted views of motherhood. His activity will be a huge black mark on British justice for decades.

And then - LL's case was started by men, handled by men and interpreted by men.

The women's voices are not heard. I think it is concerning. Especially given the predominance of female nurses in the profession. And yet only men are trying to explain "why she did it", and fail. In the meantine, educated British females with medical and law degreed are being shut down.

 

[marynnu]

.


I honestly think any man should think twice before they "psychoanalyze" her again. They all fail.

Most of interpretations of female behaviors initiated by male psychoanalysts are now obsolete, but at least in their time, they listened to the womens' stories, and they tried. But then, comes one mediocre pediatrician, like Roy Meadow, positions himself as a psychiatrist, and sorry, British psychiatry now is tainted by his twisted views of motherhood. His activity will be a huge black mark on British justice for decades.

And then - LL's case was started by men, handled by men and interpreted by men.

The women's voices are not heard. I think it is concerning. Especially given the predominance of female nurses in the profession. And yet only men are trying to explain "why she did it", and fail. In the meantine, educated British females with medical and law degreed are being shut down.

Women with medical & law degrees are being shut down? What on earth do you mean? And do the names of Eirian Powell, Alison Kelly, Sandie Bohin etc. mean nothing to you? There were female consultants involved too, remember.

 

[Sweeper2000]

.


I honestly think any man should think twice before they "psychoanalyze" her again. They all fail.

Most of interpretations of female behaviors initiated by male psychoanalysts are now obsolete, but at least in their time, they listened to the womens' stories, and they tried. But then, comes one mediocre pediatrician, like Roy Meadow, positions himself as a psychiatrist, and sorry, British psychiatry now is tainted by his twisted views of motherhood. His activity will be a huge black mark on British justice for decades.

And then - LL's case was started by men, handled by men and interpreted by men.

The women's voices are not heard. I think it is concerning. Especially given the predominance of female nurses in the profession. And yet only men are trying to explain "why she did it", and fail. In the meantine, educated British females with medical and law degreed are being shut down.

who then and in your opinion have analysed her correctly?