UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[Legally Bland]

@Angenette5
·
1m

Judge says they will have a decision soon but he's not going to define what that means. No stay of discovery. He tells everyone to stay healthy.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Thank you @Legally Bland for all those posts!

 

[Legally Bland]

@KlasfeldReports
·
1m

"'Not a Dog That’s Going to Hunt': Judge Appears Skeptical of Prince Andrew's Attempt to Dismiss Suit Accusing Him of Sexually Abusing a 17-Year-Old" No ruling yet. It can still go either way, but the judge sharply questioned the prince's counsel.

'Not a Dog That’s Going to Hunt': Judge Appears Skeptical of Prince Andrew's Attempt to Dismiss Suit Accusing Him of Sexually Abusing a 17-Year-Old

 

[Legally Bland]

I think the rest of this blog is pretty much the same as the tweets.


Prince Andrew should not be 'dragged into court' 20 years on
Andrew Brettler moved on to say: "Prince Andrew should not be dragged into this court 20 years after."

"Witnesses die, witnesses may be incarcerated," he said.

Concluding his arguments, the Duke of York's lawyer said Virginia Roberts Giuffre's case against his client should "absolutely be dismissed".

"She has given plenty of interviews all over the world, then files this lawsuit.

"It is unfair, it is unjust, it should be dismissed."

Prince Andrew hearing latest: Lawyers urge judge to dismiss Virginia Roberts Giuffre's sex assault lawsuit

 

[Dotta]

I think the rest of this blog is pretty much the same as the tweets.


Prince Andrew should not be 'dragged into court' 20 years on
Andrew Brettler moved on to say: "Prince Andrew should not be dragged into this court 20 years after."

"Witnesses die, witnesses may be incarcerated," he said.

Concluding his arguments, the Duke of York's lawyer said Virginia Roberts Giuffre's case against his client should "absolutely be dismissed".

"She has given plenty of interviews all over the world, then files this lawsuit.

"It is unfair, it is unjust, it should be dismissed."

Prince Andrew hearing latest: Lawyers urge judge to dismiss Virginia Roberts Giuffre's sex assault lawsuit

The lawyers do their job.
The bills will not pay themselves.

 

[Dotta]

Summary

Prince Andrew's lawyers try to get lawsuit thrown out before sex assault case hearing starts | Daily Mail Online

"The PA was someone to whom girls were trafficked".
Wow!

 

[Legally Bland]

@KlasfeldReports
·
57m

And per former federal prosecutor
@MitchellEpner
, a sharp observer of such things, no stay of discovery appears to be the judge tipping his hand that the dismissal motion will be denied.

 

[Dotta]

dismissal motion will be denied.

 

[MrsWatson]

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew | Marina Hyde

 

[sds71]

In one instance, Maxwell made Giuffre to sit on Andrew’s lap while he touched her in Epstein’s New York mansion, according to the suit.
“During this encounter, Maxwell forced Plaintiff, a child, and another victim to sit on Prince Andrew’s lap as Prince Andrew touched her. During his visit to New York, Prince Andrew forced Plaintiff to engage in sex acts against her will,” the suit states.
Giuffre “feared death or physical injury to herself” if she disobeyed Epstein and Maxwell’s orders, the suit states.



There was a point in the hearing today when Judge Kaplan and Giuffre attorney David Boies were finishing each others sentences.
Judge appears to let Prince Andrew sex-abuse suit move forward

 

[CrimeAway]

@Kristin Esq. Does VG need to assert that she was specifically harmed, because it is a civil suit? I often see wording in civil suits that the plaintiff suffered "mental anguish" or similar. Does the plaintiff have to spell out exactly what harm the alleged acts caused them?

ETA: My initial feeling reading what the judge said about harm, was "what??" but then I wondered if there was a specific legal distinction in the language.

 

[UK Girl]

In one instance, Maxwell made Giuffre to sit on Andrew’s lap while he touched her in Epstein’s New York mansion, according to the suit.
“During this encounter, Maxwell forced Plaintiff, a child, and another victim to sit on Prince Andrew’s lap as Prince Andrew touched her. During his visit to New York, Prince Andrew forced Plaintiff to engage in sex acts against her will,” the suit states.
Giuffre “feared death or physical injury to herself” if she disobeyed Epstein and Maxwell’s orders, the suit states.



There was a point in the hearing today when Judge Kaplan and Giuffre attorney David Boies were finishing each others sentences.
Judge appears to let Prince Andrew sex-abuse suit move forward

I assume they are talking about this...to be honest the other woman said he hadnt caused offence...and she thought he was charming Key figure in case against Prince Andrew is former student who claims she met him at Epstein mansion | Daily Mail Online

 

[Kristin Esq.]

@Kristin Esq. Does VG need to assert that she was specifically harmed, because it is a civil suit? I often see wording in civil suits that the plaintiff suffered "mental anguish" or similar. Does the plaintiff have to spell out exactly what harm the alleged acts caused them?

ETA: My initial feeling reading what the judge said about harm, was "what??" but then I wondered if there was a specific legal distinction in the language.

In her Complaint, she has two causes of Action: Battery and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. In order to have a successful complaint, she needs to plead the elements of each COA.

In her Battery COA, she pleads that she was is a victim of sexual misconduct, rape, and sexual abuse. In her IIED COA, she pleads "As a direct and proximate result of Prince Andrew’s criminal acts, Plaintiff has in the past and will in the future continue to suffer substantial damages, including extreme emotional distress, humiliation, fear, psychological trauma, loss of dignity and self-esteem, and invasion of her privacy." (Compl. Paragraph 73).

"All that is required under Rule 8(a)(2) ... is a “short and plain statement of the claim.” “Specific facts are not necessary” and the Complaint “need only give the defendant fair notice of what the . . . claim is and the grounds on which it rests.” Erickson v. Pardus, 551 U.S. 89, 93, 127 S. Ct. 2197, 2200 (2007) (quoting Bell Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555, 127 S. Ct. 1955, 1964 (2007))." (Plaintiff's Opp. to Dismiss or More Definite Statement.")

The hearing as to this Motion was heard today. I apolgize I haven't read through all of the pleadings (I'm working). Does this help at all? If not, I'll try again!

 

[CrimeAway]

@Kristin Esq. Yes, that helps, thank you!

 

[MrsWatson]

Very helpful, @Kristin Esq!

I have a question. If PA had proof, like notations from the royal calendar or pictures of him somewhere else, any sort of receipts, would this be the time his lawyers would introduce it in hopes of showing that if one thing wasn't true, the others weren't either? Or would they save that for any actual trial?

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Very helpful, @Kristin Esq!

I have a question. If PA had proof, like notations from the royal calendar or pictures of him somewhere else, any sort of receipts, would this be the time his lawyers would introduce it in hopes of showing that if one thing wasn't true, the others weren't either? Or would they save that for any actual trial?

So one of the arguments as we saw from the Tweets is that there are no specific dates. He may be trying to do exactly what you're saying. (MOO)

However, there are different ways for the attorney to go about this if he did have actual proof for all or some of the instances in the complaint. He could file a motion to dimiss with attaching those as evidence or he could bring this to the plaintiff's attorneys attention and they could agree to stipulate to dimiss the case with prejudice.

 

[Dotta]

So one of the arguments as we saw from the Tweets is that there are no specific dates. He may be trying to do exactly what you're saying. (MOO)

However, there are different ways for the attorney to go about this if he did have actual proof for all or some of the instances in the complaint. He could file a motion to dimiss with attaching those as evidence or he could bring this to the plaintiff's attorneys attention and they could agree to stipulate to dimiss the case with prejudice.

Well, as a Royal, all his trips outside Palace are monitored by security.
Surely there are some records.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Well, as a Royal, all his trips outside Palace are monitored by security.
Surely there are some records.

Yes, you're right. Surely there are some records. We shall see how this plays out. I felt as though the Judge was leaning toward denying the dismissal as the Settlement Agreement is overbroad.

 

[MrsWatson]

So one of the arguments as we saw from the Tweets is that there are no specific dates. He may be trying to do exactly what you're saying. (MOO)

However, there are different ways for the attorney to go about this if he did have actual proof for all or some of the instances in the complaint. He could file a motion to dimiss with attaching those as evidence or he could bring this to the plaintiff's attorneys attention and they could agree to stipulate to dimiss the case with prejudice.

And we didn't see that. At least at this point.

Andrew is a Royal. Even with his personal protection records being unavailable, there's a royal calendar and I find it very difficult to believe that Andrew would not have access to that, in addition to his personal diary. Even without specific dates, time frames could be checked.

 

[escape2sc]

I don't understand Andrew's attorney asking for Virginia to specify a date, week, month or year. Andrew apparently knows for certain what night he went to Pizza Express. The flight logs have been available for awhile now and gives a good indication of when Andrew was on the same flight as Virginia. The Court Circular gives a very good record of the US locations Andrew was in and comparing the flight logs to the Court Circular gives insight of Andrew's close proximity to where Epstein's plane was located. Surely, his attorneys could have someone on their team compare those records to narrow down the time frame. Though if I am not mistaken, out of Epstein's 3 pilots only one pilot's flight records have been made public ?