UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #3

[Charlot123]

Does anyone know of Pakistani News channels covering Sara Sharif's story? I tried a few Dawn.com and The Nation.com to find out if Shairf was married before Olga but not much is reported. Although one newspaper has reported one of its reader has said that Muslims to speak out against the abuse of women and girls in Asian communities. I wont be surprised if Sharif was/is married and Batool is his 3rd wife. It is allowed in muslim culture to have more than one wife.

Sadly a lot of the abuse is behind closed doors and curtains in some cultures which is so hard to disclose, with even the community concealing the abuse (IMOO).

Nothing in Al Jazeera, one article in Arab News. Granted, with two big wars in the world, they may be preoccupied with daily coverage of other events. JMO, Indian press always covers events in the world

Human bite marks, iron burn, injuries hidden with hijab: All about Sara Sharif murder case

The allegations of abuse and murder against Sara's father, stepmother and uncle are grave, with the Old Bailey court in the UK uncovering harrowing accounts of assault, that have shocked both Britain and Pakistan.

indianexpress.com

And Dawn has an interesting coverage

Shocking details unfold in Sara Sharif UK murder trial

Father admits to killing her during 'punishment', court told.

www.dawn.com

I think the version that it was Batool alone doesn't stand any criticism, although JMO, burns and bites were Batool. But from this article, it is seen how the defence is going to be: the father is protecting his wife, and the brother was not at home. MOO - the father can not be allowed to get free. Also, I read in many articles about father having "partial custody" of Sara and her brother. Does anyone know more? If the custody is partial, it changes the situation.

 

[Dotta]

Some info about BB - the step"mother"

From last year
(I remember reading it then)

"A cousin of Ms Batool has now urged her to
'come back to the UK'
and hand herself in to the police.

It is the first time anyone from Ms Batool's family has spoken to the media.

She added:
'I don't know - my family don't know - what happened.
It could have been an accident; a misunderstanding'.

Ms Batool's cousin -
who is originally from the city of Gujrat in Pakistan - said:

'Ms Batool was estranged from her parents,
having eloped to marry Mr Sharif.

'The relationship
[with her family]
is finished',
the relative added.

'She married secretly,
and her father said,
'she is not my daughter'.

'She hasn't spoken to her parents since'."

Well, well, well...



The "happy" couple



Beinash Batool and Urfan Sharif are seen in pictures obtained exclusively by Sky News.

Sara Sharif: Fugitive stepmother of girl who was found dead in Woking urged to hand herself in by relative

Sara's father Urfan Sharif along with his partner Beinash Batool and his brother Faisal Shahzad Malik are believed to have left the UK for Pakistan before Sara's body was discovered.

news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Charlot123]

Yes.

But why does she speak sooo heavily accented English though?
One would think that living in England and attending English schools a person should sound like a native, no?

Was she home schooled?

Is she only the first generation born in the UK and parents don't speak English well?

This is very interesting,
as even my pupils in Primary School speak English nearly without an accent.
Well, "nearly" is a key word hehe
But still!
(They start learning 2 foreign languages in Primary School,
usually English and German)

But to obtain such good pronunciation,
one must start learning/speaking a foreign language early,
when throat muscles are still flexible.

It seems to me it didn't happen in her case.
But education starts early in the UK, no?
From the age of 5 as far as I know.

Sorry,
but it is really baffling to me

JMO

It depends on how much time she spent at home vs school with classmates to whom English was native. Yes, they say one has to study foreign language before 9, to speak without the accent, but IMHO, it also depends on how much time one spends in own community vs the bigger group. Batool spoke Urdu pretty well. My first question would be, was she the oldest daughter in a first-generation immigrants family?

This news that Sara’s brother provided dental impression gives me hope that he will have made a statement, or will appear as a witness.

He is an adolescent who, as I can guess, has PTSD, very likely, Stockholm syndrome, who as a child was moved from his biomom's to father's house, who lived with that rabid stepmother and two highly aggressive men, and now is uprooted and moved to Pakistan. I hope he will be able to give a statement, but first, he needs a lot of support and therapy. His biological mother, Olga, per her mother's report, is suicidal. I am really concerned about the boy's health, too.

 

[Dotta]

Re B.
Language situation seems to me very interesting and very telling.

Is that why she escaped Luton and possibly restrictive family life?
To start living more freely?
To integrate more?

Eloped to London to marry much older,
seemingly "liberated" man?

Even if it meant cutting ties with parents?

But she got stuck with a brutal and temperamental husband who used to belittle her in front of others.

Before turning 30 she got 6 kids to take care of,
including (hated?) step kids.

And not seemingly coping
as neighbour noticed she
"needed support".

Was she demanding of Sara what was demanded of her as a child?

Was her education sacrificed as it happened with Sara?

Her mental state seemingly wasn't in good condition
judging by bursts of aggression.

Frustration began with verbal abuse.
Abuse of vulnerable children
who couldn't fight back.
Was it "displaced aggression"?

Which, in time, escalated and turned lethal.

Turned into deadly violence.

Because it wasn't put in check.
Unfortunately

JMO

Wow!
<modsnip: off topic>

 

[seasideForest]

Which I know begs the question of why Batool's dental impressions were not provided, perhaps this is a question of the patient giving permission?

Maybe she didn't go to the dentist very often so no dental impressions available?

 

[seasideForest]

It depends on how much time she spent at home vs school with classmates to whom English was native. Yes, they say one has to study foreign language before 9, to speak without the accent, but IMHO, it also depends on how much time one spends in own community vs the bigger group. Batool spoke Urdu pretty well.

Yup. It also depends on what school she went to, especially primary/elementary school age. If the majority of her classmates were also children of first generation immigrant families, especially from their own or similar cultures / background, that would make language-learning harder for all those children and also harder for the teacher. If there are just one or two immigrant children in a class, they learn English quickly from their classmates and a teacher may have time to give additional help here and there, even just a couple of minutes in passing so-to-speak. Not possible if half the children can't speak or really understand English when they start school.

And then of course there is sometimes a problem with families not wanting to integrate and learn the new language. I have no idea if that was the case in Batool's family when she was growing up, but it is possible. I have personal experience of parents emigrating and not wanting to integrate or wanting their children (me and my sibs) to integrate and how that can affect the children's development. Fortunately, in my family's case the emigration was from one English-speaking country to another, so there wasn't a language problem but there were other problems.

Batool certainly has family members back in Pakistan, idk whether just extended family or whether her parents moved back at some point. Also if most or all of the extended family remains in the home country, there's an additional pull to that language and culture simply because aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins etc all communicate in the native language and don't experience the new culture.

My first question would be, was she the oldest daughter in a first-generation immigrants family?

That sounds plausible. MOO

He is an adolescent who, as I can guess, has PTSD, very likely, Stockholm syndrome, who as a child was moved from his biomom's to father's house, who lived with that rabid stepmother and two highly aggressive men, and now is uprooted and moved to Pakistan. I hope he will be able to give a statement, but first, he needs a lot of support and therapy. His biological mother, Olga, per her mother's report, is suicidal. I am really concerned about the boy's health, too.

In fact, he probably has CPTSD (complex), which is harder to heal than 'just' PTSD (mono), tho that is plenty bad enough. Not all countries in the world differentiate, but there is a difference.
I agree, he'll need a lot of support and therapy and he would undoubtedly be better placed to receive that in the UK than Pakistan, for a number of reasons. JMO

I'm concerned about the boy's health, not just for his sake, but for other people's too. What all did he learn about how men can treat women and girls?? And how older people are permitted to treat younger people or maybe just younger girls? We don't know if the stepmother treated her stepson badly too, maybe verbally/emotionally? Or even maltreated her baby tho male (I think?), possible too. We just don't know, but by all accounts including Dotta's post right after yours she was struggling and it was noticeable.

Just as an aside, bit off-topic: the other case I'm following atm is that of Gisèle Pelicot in France. Many of the men who raped her were allegedly abused in their childhood/adolescence. It's all listed in something I linked on the thread. It is NOT an excuse, I'm not saying that at all!! It just brought home to me what multi-generational and societal devastation and suffering is at least partially caused by abuse. MOO. It makes me angry. Yes, the perpetrators decide to do it instead of getting themselves support, and there are victims who don't pass the abuse on, probably even many victims, I've never seen any statistics on that.

All JMO

 

[seasideForest]

U has 2 sons.
1 half Polish with Olga.
1 baby boy with B.

Do you know definitely that he has no sons with his first wife (or ex-wife), who is in Pakistan? Can you give a source? Thanks.

 

[Charlot123]

Re B.
Language situation seems to me very interesting and very telling.

Is that why she escaped Luton and possibly restrictive family life?
To start living more freely?
To integrate more?

Eloped to London to marry much older,
seemingly "liberated" man?

Even if it meant cutting ties with parents?

But she got stuck with a brutal and temperamental husband who used to belittle her in front of others.

Before turning 30 she got 6 kids to take care of,
including (hated?) step kids.

And not seemingly coping
as neighbour noticed she
"needed support".

Was she demanding of Sara what was demanded of her as a child?

Was her education sacrificed as it happened with Sara?

Her mental state seemingly wasn't in good condition
judging by bursts of aggression.

Frustration began with verbal abuse.
Abuse of vulnerable children
who couldn't fight back.
Was it "displaced aggression"?

Which, in time, escalated and turned lethal.

Turned into deadly violence.

Because it wasn't put in check.
Unfortunately

JMO

<modsnip: off topic>

We really don't know much about her life. In comments to videos I read different versions. I cannot quote them as they might be rumors, but if true, the family dynamics might be even more complicated.

I think that for one, it would be relevant to know when (in what year) Urfan and Benish legally got married. Maybe never; in many newspapers Ms. Batool is addressed as Sharif's partner, but an Islamic wedding they should have had.

I can imagine the situation when two unwed partners with six kids could get more social support, and if so, the family used it. However, leaving the children with a relatively young unstable stepmother, could have been hard on her. Plus, twins in infancy are a double whammy. I can imagine Benish being overwhelmed, insomniac and slipping mentally. But, they were a Westernized couple of Pakistani descent living in Surrey. They could always ask for a specialist's help. This is not "outside the culture". I can imagine, however, that seeking such help was "inconvenient" for Urfan as Benish's job was to be a full-day mother, stepmother, maid and everything else.

Now, again, here is JMO what I feel - that Benish might have been exhausted, mentally unstable and in need of own help. Heck, 6 kids equates to the full daycare, plus these two adult guys to take care of. Urfan was probably a habitual user of women. At the same time, Benish calls to 14 people and the travel agencies and the family escaping immediately to Pakistan after Sara's demise effectively cancels out "mental health" defence for either of them. All three knew right from wrong. (Plus, I do believe that hot iron and clothes roller were Benish's "tools" so she is as guilty as Urfan is and it sounds too sadistic.) But - ultimately, her own inability to handle the situation could be Urfan's fault.

Did he still continue to gamble as of 2019-2023?

 

[Dotta]

Do you know definitely that he has no sons with his first wife (or ex-wife), who is in Pakistan? Can you give a source? Thanks.

The problem with my reply is that I misunderstood the original post.
Aaargh!
Blame my English
(Although OP didn't use "Saxon Genitive" and it misled me. Ha!)
When I noticed my mistake,
it was too late to edit.
So, to answer your question:
I have no idea how many kids this person really has.
Sorry, my bad.

 

[su5ie]

Does anyone know of Pakistani News channels covering Sara Sharif's story? I tried a few Dawn.com and The Nation.com to find out if Shairf was married before Olga but not much is reported. Although one newspaper has reported one of its reader has said that Muslims to speak out against the abuse of women and girls in Asian communities. I wont be surprised if Sharif was/is married and Batool is his 3rd wife. It is allowed in muslim culture to have more than one wife.

Sadly a lot of the abuse is behind closed doors and curtains in some cultures which is so hard to disclose, with even the community concealing the abuse (IMOO).

In Muslim culture it is allowed to have multiple wives but the catch is each wife must be treated equally financially, physically, mentally. Obviously this rule can be exploited

How can he treat his two wives fairly? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

 

[Dotta]

In Muslim culture it is allowed to have multiple wives but the catch is each wife must be treated equally financially, physically, mentally. Obviously this rule can be exploited

How can he treat his two wives fairly? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

Well,
All U's wives seem to be treated mentally "equally".
1.Pakistani wife was deserted (she wrote to Olga).
2. Polish wife was abused and threatened.
3. B was belittled in front of others.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Yup. It also depends on what school she went to, especially primary/elementary school age. If the majority of her classmates were also children of first generation immigrant families, especially from their own or similar cultures / background, that would make language-learning harder for all those children and also harder for the teacher. If there are just one or two immigrant children in a class, they learn English quickly from their classmates and a teacher may have time to give additional help here and there, even just a couple of minutes in passing so-to-speak. Not possible if half the children can't speak or really understand English when they start school.

And then of course there is sometimes a problem with families not wanting to integrate and learn the new language. I have no idea if that was the case in Batool's family when she was growing up, but it is possible. I have personal experience of parents emigrating and not wanting to integrate or wanting their children (me and my sibs) to integrate and how that can affect the children's development. Fortunately, in my family's case the emigration was from one English-speaking country to another, so there wasn't a language problem but there were other problems.

I am sorry that there were problems with your childhood. I can imagine lots of barriers on the way of integration. Thinking of ESL program that we have here in the US schools (English as the second language). It is a great program, but the quality differs depending on the area. No doubt similar programs exist in GB, and no doubt, the quality could be poor in Lutnon.

On a side note, what Beinish read in their "joint" statement made in Pakistan could not be indicative of anything. No doubt, there was a lot of pressure on her. I was peplexed by their body language and the whole scene. Maybe she took something to calm down and was sluggish. To watch Urfan was more interesting.

In fact, he probably has CPTSD (complex), which is harder to heal than 'just' PTSD (mono), tho that is plenty bad enough. Not all countries in the world differentiate, but there is a difference.
I agree, he'll need a lot of support and therapy and he would undoubtedly be better placed to receive that in the UK than Pakistan, for a number of reasons. JMO

Yes, I agree. To be honest, I can't imagine the boy going through cross-examination and think that even if he can testify, it has to be a statement. I hope that the prosecutor service should be able to pull together a case without Sara brother's testimony. I think that he, himself, needs a lot of help, therapy, support, and it would be easier achievable in the UK.

To add, acculturation is an additional stress, and it is easier to go through for young children or adults. 13-14 is the most difficult time to get adjusted to a different culture. He should be back in the UK and the main goal should be to help him heal.

(Sorry, had to cut your post for brevity. Agree with the rest.)

 

[seasideForest]

Nothing in Al Jazeera, one article in Arab News. Granted, with two big wars in the world, they may be preoccupied with daily coverage of other events. JMO, Indian press always covers events in the world

Human bite marks, iron burn, injuries hidden with hijab: All about Sara Sharif murder case

The allegations of abuse and murder against Sara's father, stepmother and uncle are grave, with the Old Bailey court in the UK uncovering harrowing accounts of assault, that have shocked both Britain and Pakistan.

indianexpress.com

Not pleasant reading, obviously, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the write-up. Not verbatim tons of other reports, but apparently done individually by this newspaper's reporter. Includes some information that's new to me, e.g. from what pathologist Dr Nathaniel Caryand said in court: "...the total count of distinguishable injuries was 71, although many were clustered together, suggesting the actual number was likely higher." I think the writing is more nuanced than in some other reports (e.g. 'distinguishable injuries' rather than just 'injuries').

There also more fractures mentioned individually than I remember from other reports, like both hands, close to both wrists. Maybe they have been mentioned before and I'm misremembering, but it's my impression there are a few additional details, MOO. The journalist doesn't mince his/her words either.

You can also see near the top left-hand corner above the article that it is printed in the India edition of the newspaper not (just) the international edition. A good sign for me - the people in India (and maybe neighbouring countries) are to be informed not just the Indian diaspora in the UK etc.

JMO MOO

 

[su5ie]

A poster posted an article or part of saying bienash eloped to get married to urfan . I looked up the meaning as I always thought it meant running away to a different country to marry . I don't know why lol but it just means to marry in secret without permission from parents . I wonder was bienash pregnant and that's why she didn't ask permission

 

[seasideForest]

Does anyone know of Pakistani News channels covering Sara Sharif's story? I tried a few Dawn.com and The Nation.com to find out if Shairf was married before Olga but not much is reported. Although one newspaper has reported one of its reader has said that Muslims to speak out against the abuse of women and girls in Asian communities.

I think you left a word or two out where I bolded? Muslims are afraid to speak out...? Muslims are allowed to speak out...? Muslims are not allowed to speak out...? I'd be interested in knowing what you meant to write. Thanks.

I wont be surprised if Sharif was/is married and Batool is his 3rd wife. It is allowed in muslim culture to have more than one wife.

I guess we don't know if Batool is his wife or just his partner, so in that way we don't know if he's on his third marriage or not. However, I did read somewhere that Sharif either has or had a wife in Pakistan from before he married Olga. I wrote a post on that, it's upthread somewhere, probably about p.19. (Altho if it's from the Daily Mail /Daily Fail it could be wrong.) The question is: did he and his first wife divorce or not? Of course an English marriage registrar would demand proof of Sharif's single status or failing that divorced status before Sharif and Olga could marry, but it seems he's not somebody to be trusted to be truthful so I can't imagine non-disclosure of a marriage in another country to either Olga or the marriage registrar would be a big problem for him. MOO JMO

Sadly a lot of the abuse is behind closed doors and curtains in some cultures which is so hard to disclose, with even the community concealing the abuse (IMOO).

Unfortunately the first two-thirds of your sentence is applicable for the western world too, IMO and IME, not just 'some cultures', tho it could certainly be even worse in some other cultures.

 

[Charlot123]

A poster posted an article or part of saying bienash eloped to get married to urfan . I looked up the meaning as I always thought it meant running away to a different country to marry . I don't know why lol but it just means to marry in secret without permission from parents . I wonder was bienash pregnant and that's why she didn't ask permission

In the US, what with the cost of "traditional" weddings, many couples "elope" just to get married in Las Vegas. It means nothing except for "we want to save on our wedding, so we are not having a formal one." Both families may be absolutely supportive, but elopement may be financially-driven. I am almost sure that this meaning of "elopement" is entering all English-speaking countries, because of the economy. So the parents could have been aware, or not.

 

[seasideForest]

I don't know if there is a difference between the countries, or not. In the US, what with the cost of "traditional" weddings, many couples "elope" just to get married in Las Vegas. It means nothing except for "we want to save on our wedding." Both families may be absolutely for it, it is financially-driven. I am almost sure that this meaning of "elopement" is used in all English-speaking countries, because of the economy. So perhaps this is all that stands behind it.

No, that's not the meaning in all English-speaking countries. In fact, what you're your describing from the US sounds to me like people started using 'elope' in a jokey way and the usage caught on and spread.

Definition of ELOPE

to run away secretly with the intention of getting married usually without parental consent; to run away from one's spouse with a lover; to slip away : escape… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

At the very bottom of this dictionary entry, they list and describe "The changing meaning of elopement" but that sure doesn't sound like what happened in Batool's case, with her family against the marriage and then cut her off when she got married anyway.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

No, that's not the meaning in all English-speaking countries. In fact, what you're your describing from the US sounds to me like people started using 'elope' in a jokey way and the usage caught on and spread.

Definition of ELOPE

to run away secretly with the intention of getting married usually without parental consent; to run away from one's spouse with a lover; to slip away : escape… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

At the very bottom of this dictionary entry, they list and describe "The changing meaning of elopement" but that sure doesn't sound like what happened in Batool's case, with her family against the marriage and then cut her off when she got married anyway.

MOO

Sorry, correction: “to elope” was always used in the traditional sense, but today, “rather than pay for the wedding, we’d elope and use the money for the mortgage”, is heard more and more often. No one is surprised anymore, at least in my state.

But about Sara’s case: news were scarce for a year, and now there is much to go through, so I did not get thoroughly accustomed with Batool’s story. (She was texting to her sisters, so at least there should have been connections with some family members.) I am asking myself how is Urfan’s first wife faring. Did he formally divorce her, or, more likely, left alone in Pakistan, promising to take her to the UK soon as he’d get settled, and later, abandoned?

 

[Dotta]

Pakistani family was eager to get rid of these criminals

From last year:

"The family of Urfan Sharif, who is on the run in Pakistan with his wife and brother,
are negotiating with local politicians for the fugitives to hand themselves in to the authorities.

A police official and Sharif’s father, Muhammad Sharif,
confirmed that negotiations have been taking place for his relatives to come out of hiding and be handed over to the British authorities.

They are said to be
frightened of ill treatment
if they are dealt with by police in Pakistan.

( That's rich coming from them )

Muhammad Sharif, 68, said his son sent him a voice note earlier this week asking for advice and that he was persuading him to come forward.

'He contacted me through voice message.

I urged him to surrender as we [the family] are unable to bear this pressure now.

I asked him to defend your case in court of law and relieve us
and we cannot bear the police pressure and more arrests'.

A police official close to the case said:
'They are afraid of the police and we, with the help of influential and notable people, a few politicians,
are persuading them to surrender and that they will not be harmed and will be presented before the court of the law'.

Ten of their relatives have been taken into custody for questioning and several of these have been held in secret locations for extended periods by police in Jhelum
in order to
force the runaways to come forward.

Police are understood to have now made further threats
to go after the women in the family in order to try
to increase the pressure."

Phew!

I bet these criminals never contemplated such determination of authorities.

BBM

Sara Sharif: father’s family negotiating fugitives’ surrender with Pakistan police | UK news | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[VioletLilac]

Pakistani family was eager to get rid of these criminals

From last year:

"The family of Urfan Sharif, who is on the run in Pakistan with his wife and brother,
are negotiating with local politicians for the fugitives to hand themselves in to the authorities.

A police official and Sharif’s father, Muhammad Sharif,
confirmed that negotiations have been taking place for his relatives to come out of hiding and be handed over to the British authorities.

They are said to be
frightened of ill treatment
if they are dealt with by police in Pakistan.

( That's rich coming from them )

Muhammad Sharif, 68, said his son sent him a voice note earlier this week asking for advice and that he was persuading him to come forward.

'He contacted me through voice message.

I urged him to surrender as we [the family] are unable to bear this pressure now.

I asked him to defend your case in court of law and relieve us
and we cannot bear the police pressure and more arrests'.

A police official close to the case said:
'They are afraid of the police and we, with the help of influential and notable people, a few politicians,
are persuading them to surrender and that they will not be harmed and will be presented before the court of the law'.

Ten of their relatives have been taken into custody for questioning and several of these have been held in secret locations for extended periods by police in Jhelum
in order to
force the runaways to come forward.

Police are understood to have now made further threats
to go after the women in the family in order to try
to increase the pressure."

Phew!

I bet these criminals never contemplated such determination of authorities.

BBM

Sara Sharif: father’s family negotiating fugitives’ surrender with Pakistan police | UK news | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I agree, that's rich!