GUILTY UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #4

[FlamingLily]

Sara Sharif's killer stepmum 'strikes up friendship' with Lucy Letby

Both are currently being held at HMP Bronzefield in Surrey and can be seen 'playing cards' on most days and 'chatting', a source has claimed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The evil killer stepmother of Sara Sharif has reportedly struck up a prison friendship with serial baby murderer Lucy Letby as the pair 'get on so well' in their comfy jail ward.

Both are currently being held at HMP Bronzefield in Surrey and can be seen 'playing cards' on most days and 'chatting', a source has claimed.

Britain's youngest female murderer Sharon Carr - found guilty aged 12 of knifing an 18-year-old to death in 1992 - has also apparently become pals with Batool.

And completing the friendship group is convicted murderer Michelle Smith who poisoned her six-month-old daughter Amy with adult painkillers in Swansea in 2007.

The source at the Category A jail near Ashford told the Mirror: 'Beinash and Lucy live on the same wing with all the other lifers. They hang out on the landing together most days, playing cards and chatting.

'The child killers always stick together because they want to protect themselves, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that they get along so well.

'Beinash is also friends with Michelle and Sharon. They all live in house block four which is a really nice wing.

'They have privileges like their own room with an en suite shower, bigger beds and access to a private courtyard. It's like you're wrapped in cotton wool so there's no risk of being attacked or anything like that.'

I feel sick to the core reading this. Imagine jurors seeking therapy for PTSD post trial, some paying privately for timely support as is often needed after exposure to child torture, hearing of the trio carving out new lives with full tummies and games of rummy with murderous pals. I know rehabilitation requires health and focus but this is just beyond.

 

[UK Girl]

BBM
Sadly it is not always in the children's best interests to stay together due to the trauma and previous family dynamics, often assessments are carried out to determine whether they should/shouldn't remain together.

I noticed the article posted by Alyce above and quote mentions the MP being assured by services that the children would remain with each other should they return to the UK. ime jmo

Quote from above article- Will Forster, Lib Dem MP for Woking added: 'Surrey county council wants the children back and they will house them all together.
They would house them, they would look after them and keep them together. They have made that commitment to me.'

I do not believe that would happen sorry. Not just that that council doesn't exactly inspire me given their actions so far.

 

[UK Girl]

Exactly!

They were unsafe with their mother and father but the same protective parents did not care.

 

[Tortoise]

They were unsafe with their mother and father but the same protective parents did not care.

Which protective parents are you referring to?

 

[Skigh]

I do not believe that would happen sorry. Not just that that council doesn't exactly inspire me given their actions so far.

I agree with you. I am not sure whether the council have any actual plans of how they will look after the children and keep them altogether. It would be very hard to find a permanent foster home for 5 children especially one with foster parents having Pakistani heritage.

 

[UK Girl]

I agree with you. I am not sure whether the council have any actual plans of how they will look after the children and keep them altogether. It would be very hard to find a permanent foster home for 5 children especially one with foster parents having Pakistani heritage.

Plus who would be willing to look after three children with health issues on top of that and knowing the mental scars they may have from their past. Its an awful lot for any one to take on tbh

 

[UK Girl]

Which protective parents are you referring to?

protective services I meant let them down sorry.

 

[su5ie]

We can all give our opinions on what we feel is best for the remaining children. Whichever side of the fence we place our stake on is most likely influenced by our trust or lack of trust in the United Kingdoms social services system . We have all seen regular failures within that system, unfortunately Sara is just one on a long list of horrendous incompetence and will most likely not be the last . I don't believe Pakistan fairs any better .

Personally while I believe Pakistani police did an excellent job in flushing out the perpetrators in this case and ensured justice was served for Sara .I hold the belief it was done for political reasons and possibly to avoid the media glare on the history of gender based violence and the inequality of females in some Muslim societies and Pakistan. Thousands of female's deaths , rapes, crimes of DV and disfigurement in Pakistan go unpunished and most are deemed honor killings and legal punishments.

This is why I speculate urfan used this last excuse as his line of defence when first speaking to the operator and in the sky interview. it is an acceptable defence by males in Pakistan where men are deemed superior than female's . Im not being judgemental this is just a sad fact of reality many women and young girls face everyday .

Given that the majority of Sara's siblings are girls I would worry about their future in Pakistan. NS and the littlest child being male will possibly be afforded better opportunities as we see already with private schooling being spoke about by grandfather for him .

Whichever environment a child grows up in ,the child will deem it as normal as that is their lived in experience. Ideas of what is normal comes from our own family dynamics. It is not until someone either looks in or we become adults and look out that we realise things that we may have experienced were not normal . This is often why our views on what love is differ.

I think the children I assume being mainly English speaking and most likely being used to uk schooling system they would be better off in England and prehaps psychology and medical services available will be more accessible to all the children and their emotional wellbeing will be better addressed .

Urfans family and friends have already revealed their willingness to aid perpetrators of female violence which influences my opinion that the children are not in a less damaging situation. While the spotlight is being shone on the family .The grandfather as chosen spokesperson will spout all sorts of promises and illusions of ideal and safe upbringing.

But those with an insight into childhood and adult psychology and the effects of our childhood experiences affecting how we behave as adults ,reveals a picture of urfans and maliks childhood ,teen and young adult experiences being far from a loving ,healthy and safe environment. It actually reveals a picture of the opposite.

 

[su5ie]

Plus who would be willing to look after three children with health issues on top of that and knowing the mental scars they may have from their past. Its an awful lot for any one to take on tbh

It is an awful lot to take on and luckily world wide we have absolutely amazing foster parents of all cultures ,religons and race who do take it on and do it the best they can and those children go on to be adopted by them and thus find a place they are loved and belong

 

[su5ie]

https://www.unicef.org/rosa/press-releases/unicef-unveils-new-vision-protect-and-empower-adolescent-girls-pakistan

 

[UK Girl]

It is an awful lot to take on and luckily world wide we have absolutely amazing foster parents of all cultures ,religons and race who do take it on and do it the best they can and those children go on to be adopted by them and thus find a place they are loved and belong

In Ireland maybe but not so much here. Even people with no health issues do not necessarily have a great time in care. Far from it.

 

[UK Girl]

We can all give our opinions on what we feel is best for the remaining children. Whichever side of the fence we place our stake on is most likely influenced by our trust or lack of trust in the United Kingdoms social services system . We have all seen regular failures within that system, unfortunately Sara is just one on a long list of horrendous incompetence and will most likely not be the last . I don't believe Pakistan fairs any better .

Personally while I believe Pakistani police did an excellent job in flushing out the perpetrators in this case and ensured justice was served for Sara .I hold the belief it was done for political reasons and possibly to avoid the media glare on the history of gender based violence and the inequality of females in some Muslim societies and Pakistan. Thousands of female's deaths , rapes, crimes of DV and disfigurement in Pakistan go unpunished and most are deemed honor killings and legal punishments.

This is why I speculate urfan used this last excuse as his line of defence when first speaking to the operator and in the sky interview. it is an acceptable defence by males in Pakistan where men are deemed superior than female's . Im not being judgemental this is just a sad fact of reality many women and young girls face everyday .

Given that the majority of Sara's siblings are girls I would worry about their future in Pakistan. NS and the littlest child being male will possibly be afforded better opportunities as we see already with private schooling being spoke about by grandfather for him .

Whichever environment a child grows up in ,the child will deem it as normal as that is their lived in experience. Ideas of what is normal comes from our own family dynamics. It is not until someone either looks in or we become adults and look out that we realise things that we may have experienced were not normal . This is often why our views on what love is differ.

I think the children I assume being mainly English speaking and most likely being used to uk schooling system they would be better off in England and prehaps psychology and medical services available will be more accessible to all the children and their emotional wellbeing will be better addressed .

Urfans family and friends have already revealed their willingness to aid perpetrators of female violence which influences my opinion that the children are not in a less damaging situation. While the spotlight is being shone on the family .The grandfather as chosen spokesperson will spout all sorts of promises and illusions of ideal and safe upbringing.

But those with an insight into childhood and adult psychology and the effects of our childhood experiences affecting how we behave as adults ,reveals a picture of urfans and maliks childhood ,teen and young adult experiences being far from a loving ,healthy and safe environment. It actually reveals a picture of the opposite.

You say you worry about their future in Pakistan. With all respect Sara does not even have a future due partly to the fact of the same social services letting her down. Incidentally Rikki case, a case that was personal for me, the killer was in a care home. They had no idea where he was half the time. In my town a few weeks ago a child from a care home was running around all night..that is not ensuring kids are safe.

 

[su5ie]

You say you worry about their future in Pakistan. With all respect Sara does not even have a future due partly to the fact of the same social services letting her down.

I agree and social services were particularly incompetent in this case . People are very very angry and rightly so . I personally think heads should roll . SS indirectly murdered Sara in my opinion. They threw her to the lions and did nothing when reports were coming in that abuses were suspected it was more than a blind eye it was akin to manslaughter. If malik is guilty of allowing the death of a child well so should every social worker and staff member that refused to even sign off on a welfare check be before the courts on the same charge because any one of those could have saved her life . Its sickening.

My points about which is best for the remaining children are made from a aspect of gender equality. I think it's hard to choose a good apple so to speak when presented with two rotten ones .neither country has a great reputation as regards vulnerable children but I totally understand where your coming from .

Ireland fares no better in our reputation of protecting vulnerable children and our children's services are atrocious with waiting lists and hurdles of criteria to be met . This is not the fault of loving Foster families willing to nurture vulnerable children but a beaureacy of faceless people of power within the services

If you read up on the kyran durnin case you will see the glaring incompetence of irelands social services

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder if Olga's son has been asked if he'd like to live with his mother. Either way he'd probably be best placed with his Polish relatives.

 

[UK Girl]

I wonder if Olga's son has been asked if he'd like to live with his mother. Either way he'd probably be best placed with his Polish relatives.

but he may not have the best of memories there considering the reports we have seen since the trial. We also know that one of Olga's children were not returned to her. I do think he should be asked at his age who he wants to live with though. The other thing is the Mp claims if they come back here they will all be kept together which suggests him going to live with his mum may not be an option for whatever reason.

 

[CaptainNancy]

I wonder if Olga's son has been asked if he'd like to live with his mother. Either way he'd probably be best placed with his Polish relatives.

Who knows? A teen who presumably doesn’t speak Polish. Who has school friends close enough to have messaged that Sara had died, (friends are so important to teens) an important stage in his education.

Some traumatically troubled teens I know were best taken in by their best friend’s Mum, and preferred that to relatives who were ‘family’ but actually knew them less well.

Really, it’s hard for us to speculate in any meaningful way as any number of complex factors are and could be at play.

 

[seasideForest]

Sadly it is not always in the children's best interests to stay together due to the trauma and previous family dynamics, often assessments are carried out to determine whether they should/shouldn't remain together.

Yes, this ^^

Much as social services have messed up in this case, nonetheless I believe that only professionals can figure out the children's best interests and not various people on this thread, whether or not they may have had a similar childhood. e.g. only professionals in contact with the children can figure out if they actually are well-settled and happy in Pakistan, as claimed by some on this thread. Might not be. It can actually take well over a year to settle in the 'other' country / parents' home country. Especially for an adolescent! (This is not aimed at you @OceanElix

Quote from above article- Will Forster, Lib Dem MP for Woking added: 'Surrey county council wants the children back and they will house them all together.
They would house them, they would look after them and keep them together. They have made that commitment to me.'

Unfortunately politicians have been known to claim things and not carry through... Could he force Surrey county council if they didn't manage all of above? otoh possibly after the County Council messed up so badly for Sara, they'd be keeping an extra specially watchful eye on Sara's siblings. I'm a bit sceptical here.

Despite being sceptical of above, I am pretty certain the children would be better off back in England, especially Olga's son, who grew up there!!


MOO IMO

 

[seasideForest]

In reality and with full respect to the children I really don't know what's best and I hope whomever has the power to make the decision does it while taking in to consideration all that is needed to nurture a child and ensure they grow up to be kind ,caring ,loving and all rounded good human beings with a life full of positive opportunities

This!

 

[UK Girl]

Regarding this

@seasideForest
Much as social services have messed up in this case, nonetheless I believe that only professionals can figure out the children's best interests and not various people on this thread, whether or not they may have had a similar childhood. e.g. only professionals in contact with the children can figure out if they actually are well-settled and happy in Pakistan, as claimed by some on this thread. Might not be. It can actually take well over a year to settle in the 'other' country / parents' home country. Especially for an adolescent! (This is not aimed at you @OceanElix

That is precisely why I said they should be seen by CAFCASS as they are the specialists in what is best for children. Not us, Not MPS but them.

 

[seasideForest]

If the quote in this article is to be believed: 'Heartbroken' mourners honour murdered 'angel' Sara Sharif, 10 Sara's brother should not be going back into Olga's guardianship.

"They (the unnamed social worker who'd been at her job for only 9 months) wrote that Ms Dolmin, 38, 'pinched, punched' and threatened her daughter 'with lighters and being drowned in the bath'." I don't see any reason to not believe that Olga abused and threatened Sara in this way or to not believe the possibility she did similar to N. when he was younger.

MOO

Oh, the tragedy that Sara was removed from one physically and emotionally abusive parent and given into the hands of the other physically abusive and manipulative parent who killed her (along with his new wife).
Poor Sara, let down by all the adults around her and old enough to realise it too on some level or other.
JMO