UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[WestLondoner]

It is AS who enumerates SJL's four current squeezes and it occurs to me that even after ditching AL she was still four-timing them all because she apparently acquired a replacement bloke on the Saturday night.

The DH angle is interesting as he would know where to look for her and would not create a scene in the street if he got into her car. He didn't happen to look like James Galway did he??

 

[asyousay]

Danger of this thread going 'round in circles .....

Surely better to fully eliminate the obvious. SL was going to the PoW that day.

If CV / PoW is elimanted then you can look at digruntled boyfriends, celebrity scorned business partners etc etc, but in the mean time ....

FFS search the PoW!!!!

I hate to beat a dead horse but we know LE won’t do that. They have told DV to bring evidence to the table so what is the next step when LE won’t do anything and DV won’t start a crowdfund?

 

[asyousay]

It is AS who enumerates SJL's four current squeezes and it occurs to me that even after ditching AL she was still four-timing them all because she apparently acquired a replacement bloke on the Saturday night.

The DH angle is interesting as he would know where to look for her and would not create a scene in the street if he got into her car. He didn't happen to look like James Galway did he??

I still have AS in the frame for me. Why would Suzy make up a fake appointment that day if she actually did do that ?!

My theory is she was embarrassed because her social life was a mess and she could hardly tell work she has dumped her boyfriend because she was cheating on him and so she makes up a fake appointment so she can go and sort it out.

One things leads to another IMO


I would love to know how closely they actually did check his alibi

 

[Crusader21]

I hate to beat a dead horse but we know LE won’t do that. They have told DV to bring evidence to the table so what is the next step when LE won’t do anything and DV won’t start a crowdfund?

Deadlock, stalemate and a long war of attrition ...

Maybe something in this? Missing Estate Agent

 

[Pinkizzy]

Say you were a neighbour of Suzys. And you walked in to Kensington Police Station early August 1986 with info that you believe you saw Suzy walking in to the PoW lunchtime on that Monday.

The police 'knew' that she was actually over a mile away at that time at Shorrolds Rd, perhaps bundled in to a car with the search for the fiend Mr Kipper well and truly on.

Your report may have recorded on a police file card, but dismissed as inaccurate and quickly forgotten about .....

SL wanted to go shopping in Putney or return home for something that morning/day, MG knew this. If someone saw SL near the PoW that day, I guess a police offcer would check the sighting.

 

[Cluesleuth]

It is AS who enumerates SJL's four current squeezes and it occurs to me that even after ditching AL she was still four-timing them all because she apparently acquired a replacement bloke on the Saturday night.

The DH angle is interesting as he would know where to look for her and would not create a scene in the street if he got into her car. He didn't happen to look like James Galway did he??

Youre correct WestLondoner he would know where to look for and he road a motorcyle so if he intercepted her as she went to her car which JC had parked in Whittingstall car no one would be noticing if a motorcycle was parked nearby or that it was parked there all day to be picked up later.
He was tall bronzed and very handsome we know he would have sported a tan but he was naturally bronze hi father having been an indian captain in the army.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Maybe he offered her a lift to the PoW on his bike to cut through the busy lunchtime traffic.

 

[WestLondoner]

JC said the name was Hodge or Hodgeson. Suzy called DH 'Hodge' AS book page 69

It's a fun coincidence but the trouble with it is that it entails accepting as truthful something from JC that we know is a lie.

He murdered Shirley Banks, kept her car, and rather bizarrely (thoughtless psychopath; not very bright) carried the tax disc around in his briefcase. When he was arrested after trying to rob a shop, his car was searched and first the tax disc and then the car, back at his flat, were found.

His ludicrous account of how he came by the car was that he bought it off a bloke called "Hodgeson". He claimed to have bought it at a car auction site that he was unable, however, to describe, as he'd never been there. He supposedly painted it blue when he realised from news reports it was Shirley Banks' car. This Hodgeson person took her car, killed her and SJL too, he claimed.

This lie fell apart when her thumb print was found inside his flat. So there never was a Hodgson; ergo this cannot have been DH.

I hate to beat a dead horse but we know LE won’t do that. They have told DV to bring evidence to the table so what is the next step when LE won’t do anything and DV won’t start a crowdfund?

Infiltrate the PoW as staff and search it. Pubs are short of staff, right? Shouldn't be hard

 

[Crusader21]

Remember DH was eliminated by the original enquiry team.

And according to JD, those findings also reviewed (and confirmed), by a team of civilian reviewers 14 years later around the year 2000.

 

[Jackster]

Danger of this thread going 'round in circles .....

Surely better to fully eliminate the obvious. SL was going to the PoW that day.

If CV / PoW is elimanted then you can look at digruntled boyfriends, celebrity scorned business partners etc etc, but in the mean time ....

FFS search the PoW!!!!

Why won’t the police entertain this theory? They don’t want too admit they may have been wrong re JC.. it frustrating .. just watched David Wilson on tv re this case still everyone it seems believing JC theory … but DV

 

[asyousay]

If you can’t search the pub the embankment behind it would be a easier search. It’s not like there will be staff manning that embankment.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Yes this. Plus her purse was in the car, there was no real attempt to hide the car or the fact that it belonged to Suzy, it wasn't dumped at a remote location. Whoever did this did it in a rush without really thinking much, except he probably wiped the steering wheel or wore gloves, or was someone who was known to have been in her car a lot so it didn't matter if he was linked to it. So if she did take particulars and things why not leave them there too? Unless she got out of the car holding them, but why would she do that if she didn't intend to use them to view Shorrolds Road?

There were people on that street during the day so if Suzy had been dragged out of her car or a body taken out (and why there?) it would have been seen. She was never there.

The main reason I think that BW is wrong, btw, apart from the contradictions, is that Suzy was a conscientious person who was very committed to her job. She could not have really spun a short lunchtime viewing into a 3 hour break to drive around with a friend. She would have gotten into trouble had she just gone off for the afternoon. If that was her abductor how did he keep her for so long in broad daylight? In the area where she worked and where someone she knew coudl see them outside? It makes no sense. And if you think about it BW was riding her bike and would have had only a couple of seconds to notice the passing car, which was a common make and colour.

Whats interesting is if she was a no show at the viewing in Shorrolds road you would expected the viewer to have rung the office to say Im here waiting is she running late or not coming.
So that viewing could have been made by someone who wanted to make sure she would be leaving the office and travelling in a certain direction.
She told JC the office junior when she asked him to her the key to Shorrolds that she was goin to do a quick showing and then go to lunch. If the abductor was someone she knew then an impromtu lunch date together would not raise any red flags to SJL she would happily travel in the car with this male. I cant dimiss BW sighting of her travelling towards Hammersmith because she personally knew SJL and was adamant it was her but its possible that SJL was made to turn off at any point after BW saw them.
I think this was planned so the male either knew where he planned to go or was very familiar with the area
I think if MG hadnt been lunching with other managers that day things would have been acted upon more quickly, which was unfortunate for SJL
I dont think The Galway man was involved I think he genuinely saw a ruck in the street between a couple.

 

[WestLondoner]

Remember DH was eliminated by the original enquiry team.

And according to JD, those findings also reviewed (and confirmed), by a team of civilian reviewers 14 years later around the year 2000.

DH was eliminated but they didn't identify anyone else. The 2000 review wasn't to review the case and find out who killed SJL; it was to prove that JC killed SJL. So not hugely reassuring...

 

[Terryb808]

Danger of this thread going 'round in circles .....

Surely better to fully eliminate the obvious. SL was going to the PoW that day.

If CV / PoW is elimanted then you can look at digruntled boyfriends, celebrity scorned business partners etc etc, but in the mean time ....

FFS search the PoW!!!!

Sadly we’re not in a position to do this, you’re going to need two warrants, one for the PoW and the other for the Network Rail embankment (the most likely place).
I agree, this needs to be eliminated and then other options can be looked at.

 

[WestLondoner]

If you can’t search the pub the embankment behind it would be a easier search. It’s not like there will be staff manning that embankment.

Quite hard to do though - private land, hard to access; big space to search; and what would a rough grave look like?

Whats interesting is if she was a no show at the viewing in Shorrolds road you would expected the viewer to have rung the office to say Im here waiting is she running late or not coming.
So that viewing could have been made by someone who wanted to make sure she would be leaving the office and travelling in a certain direction.
She told JC the office junior when she asked him to her the key to Shorrolds that she was goin to do a quick showing and then go to lunch. If the abductor was someone she knew then an impromtu lunch date together would not raise any red flags to SJL she would happily travel in the car with this male. I cant dimiss BW sighting of her travelling towards Hammersmith because she personally knew SJL and was adamant it was her but its possible that SJL was made to turn off at any point after BW saw them.
I think this was planned so the male either knew where he planned to go or was very familiar with the area
I think if MG hadnt been lunching with other managers that day things would have been acted upon more quickly, which was unfortunate for SJL
I dont think The Galway man was involved I think he genuinely saw a ruck in the street between a couple.

The 'real' house viewer could not have rung the office to say she was a no-show because nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. We take them for granted now but they didn't start to become widespread for another ten years, and initially there were lots of numbers that couldn't be reached from a mobile.

What is clear is that nobody knows what happened re these keys. On the one hand we have NH saying SJL asked him for them, but we also have MG saying she reached past him to get them while also saying he wasn't there when she left, and then we have apparently the same set being used by MG to get into the house later. These accounts contradict each other so they can't all be right, but they could all be wrong.

 

[shadwell]

Deadlock, stalemate and a long war of attrition ...

Maybe something in this? Missing Estate Agent

Sounds intriguing, but then again...

What might be interesting is if the blog claimed to have entirely independently come to exactly the same conclusion as DV and approached a tv production company such as Blink (the company behind the Fred West Clean Plate cafe search doc) with the ‘new’ information.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Remember DH was eliminated by the original enquiry team.

And according to JD, those findings also reviewed (and confirmed), by a team of civilian reviewers 14 years later around the year 2000.

Some of the information gathered in the first investigation had been lost by 2000, And a question mark hung over just how much detail on the transfer of the 26,000 index cards over to the new system was entered correctly due to human error.

Its just opinion I think it needs a closer look

 

[Cluesleuth]

Quite hard to do though - private land, hard to access; big space to search; and what would a rough grave look like?


The 'real' house viewer could not have rung the office to say she was a no-show because nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. We take them for granted now but they didn't start to become widespread for another ten years, and initially there were lots of numbers that couldn't be reached from a mobile.

What is clear is that nobody knows what happened re these keys. On the one hand we have NH saying SJL asked him for them, but we also have MG saying she reached past him to get them while also saying he wasn't there when she left, and then we have apparently the same set being used by MG to get into the house later. These accounts contradict each other so they can't all be right, but they could all be wrong.

Mobile phones were not a necessity in 1986 there was a public phone box on every street corner.

 

[Crusader21]

DH was eliminated but they didn't identify anyone else.

It's worth noting that it was the Lamplugh family in 1987, that began linking JC with SL disappearance. Backed by stories in the press.

After much opposition and reluctance, Malcom Hackett didn't interview JC until July 1989.

MH himself was convinced that JC had nothing to do with this case ....

 

[Terryb808]

Why won’t the police entertain this theory? They don’t want too admit they may have been wrong re JC.. it frustrating .. just watched David Wilson on tv re this case still everyone it seems believing JC theory … but DV

I asked DW before this programme aired about considering other options. He was well aware of DV’s narrative.
He’s a first rate criminologist, however, he seems to have influenced or pressured by the police & tv to follow the accepted line.
He usually has his own take on things, and in previous cases has delved very deeply, not accepting the obvious.
The programme was very disappointing IMO.