UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Cluesleuth]

Ah right - so it would just be one sheet from potentially several duplicates in a folder. No way of telling for certain whether she took property details or not.

It could be 1 sheet or more or a brochure depending on the property size, price or sellers requirements

One of the female office staff said she saw SJL take the property details and the Key sorry cant remember off hand which book that was.
In the vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh JC speaking says SJL asked him to get the key for Shorrolds road for him.

 

[asyousay]

It could be 1 sheet or more or a brochure depending on the property size, price or sellers requirements

One of the female office staff said she saw SJL take the property details and the Key sorry cant remember off hand which book that was.
In the vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh JC speaking says SJL asked him to get the key for Shorrolds road for him.

Yes so somebody else in the office saying she took this stuff. This stuff wasn’t found in the car either. So she must of had it to hand if she did indeed take them.

 

[Crusader21]

This thread has taken on a new lease of life, hard to keep tabs on the scale of conversation these days!

Q. Is un-named 'Mayfair Man' pictured here in the last pic (taken Saturday night), actually also 'Bahamas Man'?

 

[Terryb808]

Yes so somebody else in the office saying she took this stuff. This stuff wasn’t found in the car either. So she must of had it to hand if she did indeed take them.

What is puzzling is that if she took the property details and then collected a client, went on to Stevenage Road (which is possible), this raises the risk of more witnesses seeing him.
When the perpetrator abandoned the car he did so in a hurry, leaving SJL’s purse in the car, didn’t have time to apply the handbrake or lock the car.
As the passenger door was locked he was obviously alone, and SJL was either subdued or already dead by this time.
For this to be related to a client unknown to SJL he couldn’t have taken her that far from SR.
If the James Galway man is involved we’re looking at approximately 3.00pm to abandon the car. So BW has to be wrong, for BW to be right, we’re looking at approximately 4.00 to 5.00pm to abandon the car.
For these 2 scenarios we have 2 different suspects, and if BW is right why would the perpetrator come all the way back to Fulham from the Hammersmith area. The only reason I can think of is that her abduction was well planned and it would result in the police concentrating on Fulham.

 

[Konstantin]

Nobody knew her plans as she had vanished off the face of the planet. If CV was guilty he would of made up a lot better story as he could of met her somehow away from the pub as she was a super busy girl and he was being helpful.

Except people must have known her plans or at least that her stuff was at the pub and she planned to pick it up. The police were aware of that fact probably the day she went missing, since the morning after, the Tuesday, they sent 2 officers to the pub to collect the stuff and they talked to CV then. Suzy was talking on the phone to the pub, I assume she talked to her colleagues about it since she didn't speak to her mum on the phone that day, their last contact was the Sunday night.

It would have looked very odd if the police turned up at the pub to get her stuff, and CV had denied all knowledge of any contact with Suzy. The police knew there was contact since they knew the stuff was there and the bank didn't tell them because why would they think to call the bank of a missing woman?

Look, I don't think CV did it--leaving a body in a pub cellar, a pub you don't own and control access too, would be a very dumb thing to do as you would spend every day terrified that it would be discovered. But the pub was a place Suzy was conceivably headed so it makes sense to investigate it rather than just assuming the Kipper story is true when it is clearly very dubious.

 

[Konstantin]

What is puzzling is that if she took the property details and then collected a client, went on to Stevenage Road (which is possible), this raises the risk of more witnesses seeing him.
When the perpetrator abandoned the car he did so in a hurry, leaving SJL’s purse in the car, didn’t have time to apply the handbrake or lock the car.
As the passenger door was locked he was obviously alone, and SJL was either subdued or already dead by this time.
For this to be related to a client unknown to SJL he couldn’t have taken her that far from SR.
If the James Galway man is involved we’re looking at approximately 3.00pm to abandon the car. So BW has to be wrong, for BW to be right, we’re looking at approximately 4.00 to 5.00pm to abandon the car.
For these 2 scenarios we have 2 different suspects, and if BW is right why would the perpetrator come all the way back to Fulham from the Hammersmith area. The only reason I can think of is that her abduction was well planned and it would result in the police concentrating on Fulham.

Yes this. Plus her purse was in the car, there was no real attempt to hide the car or the fact that it belonged to Suzy, it wasn't dumped at a remote location. Whoever did this did it in a rush without really thinking much, except he probably wiped the steering wheel or wore gloves, or was someone who was known to have been in her car a lot so it didn't matter if he was linked to it. So if she did take particulars and things why not leave them there too? Unless she got out of the car holding them, but why would she do that if she didn't intend to use them to view Shorrolds Road?

There were people on that street during the day so if Suzy had been dragged out of her car or a body taken out (and why there?) it would have been seen. She was never there.

The main reason I think that BW is wrong, btw, apart from the contradictions, is that Suzy was a conscientious person who was very committed to her job. She could not have really spun a short lunchtime viewing into a 3 hour break to drive around with a friend. She would have gotten into trouble had she just gone off for the afternoon. If that was her abductor how did he keep her for so long in broad daylight? In the area where she worked and where someone she knew coudl see them outside? It makes no sense. And if you think about it BW was riding her bike and would have had only a couple of seconds to notice the passing car, which was a common make and colour.

 

[Crusader21]

Look, I don't think CV did it--leaving a body in a pub cellar, a pub you don't own and control access too, would be a very dumb thing to do as you would spend every day terrified that it would be discovered.

But perhaps CV was responsible in an unplanned murder. Soon the case hit national headlines, with police sniffer dogs around the Thames etc it would be mad to attempt to move a body and dump.

I'd have put her on the railway embankment behind the pub, a shallow grave and recovered the corpse with the embankment stones.

IMO, I think that this is actually DVs guess as to where she is too, hence the chapters in his book detailing a body deposited in such a place ......

 

[Konstantin]

But perhaps CV was responsible in an unplanned murder. Soon the case hit national headlines, with police sniffer dogs around the Thames etc it would be mad to attempt to move a body and dump.

I'd have put her on the railway embankment behind the pub, a shallow grave and recovered the corpse with the embankment stones.

IMO, I think that this is actually DVs guess as to where she is too, hence the chapters in his book detailing a body deposited in such a place ......

oh yeah i know that's DV''s theory and he backs it up pretty well in my view. I don't believe in complex conspiracies around her diary and secret groups of people who wanted her gone because of some gossip she wrote in there, it was a small pocket diary anyway wasnt it? so not that much room to pen long salacious screeds.

I think the diary contents are a red herring except in that obviously Suzy would want her private property back, I know I would. I don't think the perpetrator needed to be incensed by it, women get sexually assaulted all the damn time, there doesn't need to be a catalyst like a salacious diary for that to happen. Murder is something else, but still, it happens. we don't need a complex, personal motive. DV is right on that. I think the flack he is getting from some quarters around "wanting to make money" is ridiculous, too, clearly he hasn't made money from this. Probably lost money.

WHat he proposes is logical and worth investigating, no need for complex spy thriller theories about how CV was in cahoots with sinister people who wanted Suzy gone. She was a female victim of a sex attacker, end of story.

 

[Crusader21]

What he proposes is logical and worth investigating, no need for complex spy thriller theories about how CV was in cahoots with sinister people who wanted Suzy gone. She was a female victim of a sex attacker, end of story.

It was reported that CV moved 'back up North'.

DV stated along the lines of perhaps the man responsible has continued to re-offend?

Are there any unsolved / sex attack / even murders in the vicinity in where this man has lived since 1986? That may be worth investigating .....

 

[asyousay]

CV didn’t live in the area did he so how would he of known a good place to hide a body and let’s not forget his wife was around and he had a job to do in a busy Fulham pub.

How did he exactly murder somebody in broad daylight with not one person hearing or seeing anything? - a pub is vastly different than a empty house/Flat!


Also this case was literally 24/7 news for weeks as my mum remembers this case so if she was Putney/Fulham not a single person came forward to say “hold on here I saw her here” in a different location than what the police think.

 

[Crusader21]

not a single person came forward to say “hold on here I saw her here” in a different location than what the police think.

Say you were a neighbour of Suzys. And you walked in to Kensington Police Station early August 1986 with info that you believe you saw Suzy walking in to the PoW lunchtime on that Monday.

The police 'knew' that she was actually over a mile away at that time at Shorrolds Rd, perhaps bundled in to a car with the search for the fiend Mr Kipper well and truly on.

Your report may have recorded on a police file card, but dismissed as inaccurate and quickly forgotten about .....

 

[asyousay]

Say you were a neighbour of Suzys. And you walked in to Kensington Police Station early August 1986 with info that you believe you saw Suzy walking in to the PoW lunchtime on that Monday.

The police 'knew' that she was actually over a mile away at that time at Shorrolds Rd, perhaps bundled in to a car with the search for the fiend Mr Kipper well and truly on.

Your report may have recorded on a police file card, but dismissed as inaccurate and quickly forgotten about .....

Ok I don’t don’t agree with everything said on here but that does make sense. I would still hope all lines of enquiries were followed up though. But who knows

 

[Terryb808]

It was reported that CV moved 'back up North'.

DV stated along the lines of perhaps the man responsible has continued to re-offend?

Are there any unsolved / sex attack / even murders in the vicinity in where this man has lived since 1986? That may be worth investigating .....

Yes there have been several in Middlesbrough, some remain unsolved, but nothing to connect them to CV.
At least 3 females frequented the same pub and were prosecutes. If I remember correctly 2 have never been found.

 

[asyousay]

Also I just want to say I’m not being difficult- I do listen to everybody’s theory’s. I just don’t buy CV did this. He was married working relief in a busy London pub and doesn’t have a criminal history as far as we are aware.

I don’t believe Suzy walked into the pub and he was over taken by lust and murdered her and then spent the next few days serving punters with her dead in the cellar

 

[Terryb808]

Ok I don’t don’t agree with everything said on here but that does make sense. I would still hope all lines of enquiries were followed up though. But who knows

It’s the same with JD’s canal witness, he was supposed to have reported this to his local Brentford police. JD said he couldn’t find any report relating to this.
As it was Brentford and not Fulham maybe they just didn’t take it seriously, we’ll never know.
I’m sure JD would have found a report if there was one.

 

[Cluesleuth]

According to CBD he claimed to have bought it off someone called "Hodgeson". Is there some significance to this made-up name?

JC said the name was Hodge or Hodgeson. Suzy called DH 'Hodge' AS book page 69

 

[Terryb808]

Also I just want to say I’m not being difficult- I do listen to everybody’s theory’s. I just don’t buy CV did this. He was married working relief in a busy London pub and doesn’t have a criminal history as far as we are aware.

I don’t believe Suzy walked into the pub and he was over taken by lust and murdered her and then spent the next few days serving punters with her dead in the cellar

Someone said recently that all the clues are here, we just need to assemble them in the correct order.
DH and his disappearing act after SJL went missing, lack of an alibi and the possibility that he may not have taken SJL’s new rich man very well provides a motive.
Does anyone know for sure how the police eliminated him?

 

[asyousay]

Someone said recently that all the clues are here, we just need to assemble them in the correct order.
DH and his disappearing act after SJL went missing, lack of an alibi and the possibility that he may not have taken SJL’s new rich man very well provides a motive.
Does anyone know for sure how the police eliminated him?

This a lot better theory for me and definitely has merit to me.

 

[WestLondoner]

Say you were a neighbour of Suzys. And you walked in to Kensington Police Station early August 1986 with info that you believe you saw Suzy walking in to the PoW lunchtime on that Monday.

The police 'knew' that she was actually over a mile away at that time at Shorrolds Rd, perhaps bundled in to a car with the search for the fiend Mr Kipper well and truly on.

Your report may have recorded on a police file card, but dismissed as inaccurate and quickly forgotten about .....

Yes, this is the point - we don't really need to guess what would happen if you went to the police and said you were pretty sure she went to the PoW. DV has actually done exactly that and look at the response he got from them.

Ok I don’t don’t agree with everything said on here but that does make sense. I would still hope all lines of enquiries were followed up though. But who knows

Yes, you have to take that view. For me the PoW is an obvious place that should have been searched 36 years ago. It's not at all obvious why she gets killed there, but if you search and she's not there, you don't need to work it out.

When I read DV I came away with the feeling that he'd given us parts 1, 2 and 4 and there was a missing part 3 in which he explains what happened and why. The most obvious missing bit is why anyone kills her at the pub. Had I to guess, I'd say that absent a psychopath working there, she died by accident - fell down a flight of stairs or something. Someone with incredibly bad judgement decided to hide this death, because he wants to work in the pub trade and if there's a death within an hour of his being left in charge his career's over. Anyone sensible would report it, but this person doesn't do so and then gets incredibly lucky. As has been pointed out, he's not a local, so if he's going to hide a body it's going to be on or very near the premises, as he's unfamiliar with anywhere else.

It's all I can think of, and if it's not that, then we're back to abduction with no reliable information to proceed from.

 

[Crusader21]

Danger of this thread going 'round in circles .....

Surely better to fully eliminate the obvious. SL was going to the PoW that day.

If CV / PoW is elimanted then you can look at digruntled boyfriends, celebrity scorned business partners etc etc, but in the mean time ....

FFS search the PoW!!!!