UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[lee sumner]

The FBI also advised the UK police that the calls were probably a hoax.

The FBI said the Ripper would be a loner who wouldn't communicate with the police. They even suggested he was a long distance lorry driver.

Off topic a bit, but what do you think about the phone call in the Shelley Morgan case? A mystery phone caller appears out of the blue, and says Shelley is buried in water. A few days later, her remains are found at a place called Water Catch Farm.

re, shelley morgan. i will be reading up on her case.

 

[Terryb808]

no, iam not sure. i will double check.

I took a look today, it’s not exactly clear, however, the CCTV sightings start around Gallow Bridge (can’t say for sure it is the bridge). They end someways well away and she was found close to the last CCTV sighting.
Goss’s deposition sight isn’t near Gallows Bridge, anyway, there’s 28 years (approximately) between Lamplugh & Goss. Given this and the fact that the canal will have been dredged many times within this period, it’s unlikely any trace of Lamplugh’s remains would still be present in 2014.
I feel this is the reason that the police refused JD’s request to dredge the area around Gallows Bridge.
I confirmed the dredging policy with the senior canal & river trust chemist, plus what the policy was regarding the disposal of the dredged materials.
I also did research on the degradation of materials used to manufacture Suitcases & canvas bags. This was inconclusive because I don’t know exactly what material the bag may have been made from.
Generally, I feel that if JD’s lorry driver did see JC disposing of SJL, then after all these years there will not be anything left to find.

 

[DCROBBO]

It depends exactly which section was dredged, Gallows Bridge is part of the river Brent.
Do you know for sure they actually reached Gallows Bridge.

This is likely to be the last hope of finding some remains ….

 

[Konstantin]

Generally, I feel that if JD’s lorry driver did see JC disposing of SJL, then after all these years there will not be anything left to find.

Extremely unlikely and if the canal has been dredged at other times, and nothing was found, maybe there is nothing to find.

 

[Klclevi]

Does dailymotion work in Oz?

A few clips/docus on here that you may not have seen?

Dailymotion

www.dailymotion.com

Are there any specific docus you would wish to see?

Hi and Thankyou , I did not even think of Dailymotion!

This one was on SkyCrime - I have not been able to watch this from Aus

The Mystery of Suzy Lamplugh

and this one called Faking it Tears of a Crime
"Faking It: Tears of a Crime" The Prime Suspect (TV Episode 2021) | Documentary, Crime, News

 

[lee sumner]

The FBI also advised the UK police that the calls were probably a hoax.

The FBI said the Ripper would be a loner who wouldn't communicate with the police. They even suggested he was a long distance lorry driver.

Off topic a bit, but what do you think about the phone call in the Shelley Morgan case? A mystery phone caller appears out of the blue, and says Shelley is buried in water. A few days later, her remains are found at a place called Water Catch Farm.

I took a look today, it’s not exactly clear, however, the CCTV sightings start around Gallow Bridge (can’t say for sure it is the bridge). They end someways well away and she was found close to the last CCTV sighting.
Goss’s deposition sight isn’t near Gallows Bridge, anyway, there’s 28 years (approximately) between Lamplugh & Goss. Given this and the fact that the canal will have been dredged many times within this period, it’s unlikely any trace of Lamplugh’s remains would still be present in 2014.
I feel this is the reason that the police refused JD’s request to dredge the area around Gallows Bridge.
I confirmed the dredging policy with the senior canal & river trust chemist, plus what the policy was regarding the disposal of the dredged materials.
I also did research on the degradation of materials used to manufacture Suitcases & canvas bags. This was inconclusive because I don’t know exactly what material the bag may have been made from.
Generally, I feel that if JD’s lorry driver did see JC disposing of SJL, then after all these years there will not be anything left to find.

dumping a body in a canal is a terrible idea. like you said they ger dredged every 5 yrs you said. sooner or later SL body would have been found.

 

[Terryb808]

dumping a body in a canal is a terrible idea. like you said they ger dredged every 5 yrs you said. sooner or later SL body would have been found.

This is one of those subjects with many possibilities, if we have 5 years before the canal was dredged, there’s a possibility that the canvas bag disintegrated and the bones within would be dispersed by the natural movement of the water.
Some canvas material disintegrates very quickly in water, while others take longer.
There’s several reasons why this sighting could have been genuine:
1. Suzy’s disappearance hit the media big time on the Wednesday.
2. In the case of SB disappearance, JC held her captive for a while before killing her.
3. As pointed out by LSW elsewhere, JC has no alibi until Thursday.
4. JC’s MO tends to revolve around disposable by water, his thoughts being water washes away forensic evidence.
5. Examples
a). The knife used in the knitting shop rape was disposed of in water.
b). SB was dumped in water.
c). SC (if down to JC) was disposed of in a water filled ditch.
On this basis why not SJL, given the media coverage on the Wednesday, she would have been hot property and needed to be disposed of.
Who’d have thought you’d meet a man walking work along the canal at around 5am.
JC was lazy, I just can’t see him bothering to dig a grave and bury his victims. So Norton Barracks is (like his mother’s home) another one of his games.
Having said all that he could have pulled up at the side of the road and dumped her body a few metres away (just like Melainie Hall).

 

[lee sumner]

This is one of those subjects with many possibilities, if we have 5 years before the canal was dredged, there’s a possibility that the canvas bag disintegrated and the bones within would be dispersed by the natural movement of the water.
Some canvas material disintegrates very quickly in water, while others take longer.
There’s several reasons why this sighting could have been genuine:
1. Suzy’s disappearance hit the media big time on the Wednesday.
2. In the case of SB disappearance, JC held her captive for a while before killing her.
3. As pointed out by LSW elsewhere, JC has no alibi until Thursday.
4. JC’s MO tends to revolve around disposable by water, his thoughts being water washes away forensic evidence.
5. Examples
a). The knife used in the knitting shop rape was disposed of in water.
b). SB was dumped in water.
c). SC (if down to JC) was disposed of in a water filled ditch.
On this basis why not SJL, given the media coverage on the Wednesday, she would have been hot property and needed to be disposed of.
Who’d have thought you’d meet a man walking work along the canal at around 5am.
JC was lazy, I just can’t see him bothering to dig a grave and bury his victims. So Norton Barracks is (like his mother’s home) another one of his games.
Having said all that he could have pulled up at the side of the road and dumped her body a few metres away (just like Melainie Hall).

i agree with what you say regarding JC and his MO. did JC want to keep SL captive overnight like SB. it would explain why he did not assault her at 37 shorrolds rd. he had the time to do that, as SL would not have been missed for at least 2 hours. did JC have another location where he could take SL, if so, where is that crime scene.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Hi and Thankyou , I did not even think of Dailymotion!

This one was on SkyCrime - I have not been able to watch this from Aus

The Mystery of Suzy Lamplugh

and this one called Faking it Tears of a Crime
"Faking It: Tears of a Crime" The Prime Suspect (TV Episode 2021) | Documentary, Crime, News

WIll try and find a useable source of these for you.


Never seen this one, unsure of if useful to anyone.

 

[WestLondoner]

The problem with that Fox / Wilson effort, if it's the one I recall, is that it assumes its own conclusion. Let's assume it was JC, here's a bit of forensic geography, oo look, that proves it was JC.

There are a number of details and people I'd like to think were properly looked into at the time, or have been since. In no particular order:

1/ TS / PSS. Everything we think we know about these two came from PSS, none of it is corroborated especially the stuff about blind dates with Arab princes, PSS later accused TS of being scary, SJL was said to have told her sister (or was it a friend?) she was seeing a married man with kids; TS was a married man with kids, and one under financial stress - he went bankrupt 8 days later.

2/ The house next to SJL's was being done up into flats by a Cypriot property developer. The Greek for Cyprus is Kiprus. Kiprianou's a common name there. Mr who, again?

3/ CV. DV is ex-LE and cannot possibly imagine that what's in his book amounts to a case against him. So what has he found out about CV that's not in his book?

4/ JT. This man appears to have been the police's principal informant against JC. What was he able to remember in 2000/2001 about JC's activities in 1986 that he completely failed to think suspicious at the time? Did he know JC a bit and tell the police some juicy stuff in exchange for something he wanted from them?

5/ Superhire, JC's day-release employer. Did they use hard-shell packing cases to move stuff around, that a body would fit into? Did they know where all their large cases were? Had any gone missing?

6/ JD is confident JC had access to a BMW. Did JT tell him this? Would it have been possible in 2000 to access records from 1986 as to who'd bought or sold such a car around then?

As I've said before, if this wasn't JC, it was a ghost who managed to stay out of the inquiry and about whom we hence know nothing. The Yorkshire Ripper wasn't caught by the investigation, but his name was actually in the inquiry's card index at least. JC's name was not, so although I tend to assume this was JC (because he does at least exist i.e. we don't have to posit a ghost as SJL's killer), he actually was such a ghost in 1986 so far as the Lamplugh investigation's knowledge of him (zero) went.

And where there's one, there can be more than one. Until Dennis Nilsen was arrested, nobody even knew there was a serial killer at work. Not only was his name not in the investigation, there wasn't even an investigation.

 

[DCROBBO]

This is one of those subjects with many possibilities, if we have 5 years before the canal was dredged, there’s a possibility that the canvas bag disintegrated and the bones within would be dispersed by the natural movement of the water.
Some canvas material disintegrates very quickly in water, while others take longer.
There’s several reasons why this sighting could have been genuine:
1. Suzy’s disappearance hit the media big time on the Wednesday.
2. In the case of SB disappearance, JC held her captive for a while before killing her.
3. As pointed out by LSW elsewhere, JC has no alibi until Thursday.
4. JC’s MO tends to revolve around disposable by water, his thoughts being water washes away forensic evidence.
5. Examples
a). The knife used in the knitting shop rape was disposed of in water.
b). SB was dumped in water.
c). SC (if down to JC) was disposed of in a water filled ditch.
On this basis why not SJL, given the media coverage on the Wednesday, she would have been hot property and needed to be disposed of.
Who’d have thought you’d meet a man walking work along the canal at around 5am.
JC was lazy, I just can’t see him bothering to dig a grave and bury his victims. So Norton Barracks is (like his mother’s home) another one of his games.
Having said all that he could have pulled up at the side of the road and dumped her body a few metres away (just like Melainie Hall).

And apparently the witness actually went to JC’s trial at Exeter, which is a trek from West London.

 

[Terryb808]

And apparently the witness actually went to JC’s trial at Exeter, which is a trek from West London.

Yes, like the witness himself, we can’t actually positively confirm this.
What is compelling is the actual story, it’s not the sort of you’d naturally make up.

 

[Terryb808]

JD is confident JC had access to a BMW. Did JT tell him this? Would it have been possible in 2000 to access records from 1986 as to who'd bought or sold such a car around then?

Sadly we can’t confirm what JD had access to that’s never been in the public domain. All you mention could actually be in the police files and he was not allowed to quote.
Having said that, JC’s dead, so if it’s in there files it’s time to make it public and close the case.
Sadly I think it’s just not there and that’s why it’s not come out.

 

[Konstantin]

6/ JD is confident JC had access to a BMW. Did JT tell him this? Would it have been possible in 2000 to access records from 1986 as to who'd bought or sold such a car around then?

JC certainly liked his BMWs so it is not completely implausible. JD must have a reason to believe he had access to one and where could he have got this from? Not from records because that would make a far stronger case. JT is a strong possibility here.

1/ TS / PSS. Everything we think we know about these two came from PSS, none of it is corroborated especially the stuff about blind dates with Arab princes, PSS later accused TS of being scary, SJL was said to have told her sister (or was it a friend?) she was seeing a married man with kids; TS was a married man with kids, and one under financial stress - he went bankrupt 8 days later.

PSS seems to be AS's source or one of them about the probably married man SJL was seeing. He was older and PSS claims (we have only her word for this as you point out) that she was happy about this because TS didn't feel comfortable socialising with younger people and so if they could double date with SJL and Older Married Chap, TS could have someone to talk to. Bit of a convoluted tale to tell AS, why would he care about PSS's husband's preferences for social chitchat? Why did PSS even tell this story to AS, she knew he could not corroborate it. It was a bit of a slur on SJL perhaps. Perhaps PSS thought that this mystery older married bloke was Kipper? Her story also makes the point that whoever he was he wasn't TS, because her thoughts were that TS would like to socialise with him.

Sadly I think it’s just not there and that’s why it’s not come out.

The case against JC that they have managed to gather is obviously very weak. It is all conjecture and flimsy circumstantial evidence that was gathered years later. I get the impression that the 2000 investigation were pushed quite hard to close the case and just re-cleared all the people they cleared back in 1987 and then tried to find ways to show it was JC. It is an embarrassment for them that a violent rapist was released and perhaps murdered someone within days and then went on to murder at least one other woman and no one realised he was a danger.

 

[Cherwell]

PSS seems to be AS's source or one of them about the probably married man SJL was seeing. He was older and PSS claims (we have only her word for this as you point out) that she was happy about this because TS didn't feel comfortable socialising with younger people and so if they could double date with SJL and Older Married Chap, TS could have someone to talk to. Bit of a convoluted tale to tell AS, why would he care about PSS's husband's preferences for social chitchat? Why did PSS even tell this story to AS, she knew he could not corroborate it. It was a bit of a slur on SJL perhaps. Perhaps PSS thought that this mystery older married bloke was Kipper? Her story also makes the point that whoever he was he wasn't TS, because her thoughts were that TS would like to socialise with him.

Or it could have been to deflect suspicion away from TS.

 

[Klclevi]

WIll try and find a useable source of these for you.


Never seen this one, unsure of if useful to anyone.

Thankyou so much that would be greatly appreciated !

 

[Konstantin]

Or it could have been to deflect suspicion away from TS.

Yes exactly.

 

[Klclevi]

A bit off topic..

Its 9pm here in Aus. In 1986 I was 13 years old. Tonight watching some old music videos from the 80s - and thinking about SJL in that time
We only had Countdown (a show here thats now long defunct) on a Sunday night on the ABC to show us all the new music from the UK (Wham, Spandau, Phil C, Bowie, Peter Gabriel, A-Ha, Communards TFF, I could go on for ages). No Top of the Pops here! - I hung out for it every Sunday night at 6.30pm -then wait for the cassette tape to come out in the stores - omg they were the best times!).

As a 25 year old young woman she must have been living such a great life in that time. It seemed so simple back then, albeit we have the benefits (and downfalls to some degree of technology today). But life was not safe was it, not in London at that time? I would love some insights into life in London-UK then.

Bit of a sentimtental post I know ! She would have been 64 this year on 3 May. Pretty sad. I can not imagine for the life of me if that was our own daughter missing for all those years

 

[Terryb808]

would love some insights into life in London-UK then.

As far as I can recall life in London was work hard play hard.
The week before Suzy went missing Queen played at Wembley Stadium (The Magic Tour), I went in at 2.30pm and left at 10.00pm.
Queen who were incredible live and were supported by bands like Status Que & INXS.
It was an amazing experience, you could also go to a local pub and bump into celebs of the day. Had a memorable few beers with John Thor & Dennis Waterman, they were great company.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

It was an era of big hair and big dreams (although not for everyone, sadly). Women were making it at work, Thatcher was in charge, and greed was good. The Yuppie, with his/ her Porsche, gigantic mobile and filofax, was a common stereotype. There was a sense that if you worked hard and applied yourself, your background did not matter too much. It was an era of aspiration, and probably for the first time, house purchase was within reach of large numbers of people Houses were being built everywhere. Shabby areas were starting to be gentrified. I bought a doer-upper (not in London!) for £25k. Brands like Next brought aspiration to the high street.

It was a great time to be young and ambitious.

But many were still conservative in their thinking. Many women were married at a young age still, sometimes with children. People generally left school at 16, to go to work. I can understand why there may have been tension between sjl and her mother, who was of a different generation and a Methodist. My gran (also a Methodist) never knew that I was living with my partner "in sin".