UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[Ljh21]

yes iv'e read that the house keys for 37SR never left the office - Suzy didn't take the house keys as they have a big yellow fob and the manager gave (the only set) to the police to do a property search the day after her disappearance so how could Suzy have taken the keys to show kipper the property and then got them back into the office ? There was only one set.

Because it was him and he slipped up there big time,

 

[Ljh21]

hasn't Dead Woman's Ditch been searched? also the fiesta was in police custody by 10pm? with sightings during the day so if it was Cannan would he not use a vehicle he had ...why a Sturgis fiesta? that mileage would be possible on a full tank but interested in your theory re the fiesta being used and how it could have been?

It was never cannan and so much wasted time on the wrong man when you go back to the last point of contact - the same as huntley

 

[Ljh21]

It was never cannan and so much wasted time on the wrong man when you go back to the last point of contact - the same as huntley

 

[lee sumner]

that's a great summary ! My thoughts are she was obviously meeting someone at 12.40 , someone she knew..... but who ? she gave this person a nickname of Mr Kipper - so she could go and meet without office staff being suspicious as she'd put something in her diary and no one would question that...

why would SL use such a bizarre name like mr kipper. she would have used a name that did not stand out.

 

[tes1984]

hasn't Dead Woman's Ditch been searched? also the fiesta was in police custody by 10pm? with sightings during the day so if it was Cannan would he not use a vehicle he had ...why a Sturgis fiesta? that mileage would be possible on a full tank but interested in your theory re the fiesta being used and how it could have been?

They spent a week searching at Dead Woman's Ditch in 2001. The police thought Cannan drove Suzy there from London. I was wondering if he could have made such a journey, in a typical small car of the era, without having to stop for petrol somewhere on the way there or back.

 

[greenwoodlad]

They spent a week searching at Dead Woman's Ditch in 2001. The police thought Cannan drove Suzy there from London. I was wondering if he could have made such a journey, in a typical small car of the era, without having to stop for petrol somewhere on the way there or back.

a fiesta would definitely do those miles assuming it was full of fuel for the journey.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

why would SL use such a bizarre name like mr kipper. she would have used a name that did not stand out.

One theory is that it was a genuine name, misspelled due to Sjl's dyslexia.

Another is that on completing the diary entry, she was associating the name Herring, who was a friend of hers living in/ who had lived in Shorrolds Road.

Another is that her "Putney set" friends were in the habit of giving themselves daft made up names and she was continuing the practice.

 

[greenwoodlad]

why would SL use such a bizarre name like mr kipper. she would have used a name that did not stand out.

that's a fair question...like Mr Smith or something ...so you're thinking the name Mr Kipper is relevant and not invented ...could it be a nickname she has for a known acquaintance and she didn't want her colleagues to know who she was meeting as either way she didn't log this person as an official potential purchaser / viewer . So a meeting that she had planned but didn't want colleagues to know who it was with and therefore potentially inventing the fact it was at 37 SR too

 

[Ljh21]

Also i would find it quite easy to write o/s in anyones handwriting style after a few practise runs

Also coul lm

yes iv'e read that the house keys for 37SR never left the office - Suzy didn't take the house keys as they have a big yellow fob and the manager gave (the only set) to the police to do a property search the day after her disappearance so how could Suzy have taken the keys to show kipper the property and then got them back into the office ? There was only one set.

Agree and there lies the answer

that's a fair question...like Mr Smith or something ...so you're thinking the name Mr Kipper is relevant and not invented ...could it be a nickname she has for a known acquaintance and she didn't want her colleagues to know who she was meeting as either way she didn't log this person as an official potential purchaser / viewer . So a meeting that she had planned but didn't want colleagues to know who it was with and therefore potentially inventing the fact it was at 37 SR too

 

[Ljh21]

that's a fair question...like Mr Smith or something ...so you're thinking the name Mr Kipper is relevant and not invented ...could it be a nickname she has for a known acquaintance and she didn't want her colleagues to know who she was meeting as either way she didn't log this person as an official potential purchaser / viewer . So a meeting that she had planned but didn't want colleagues to know who it was with and therefore potentially inventing the fact it was at 37 SR too

a colleague could have said "write this one down suzy"
thus an entry in pencil awaiting confirmation also notice written in the middle of the page notice the different r's and the dodgy "s" this is so wrong i think 37 shorrolds added

 

[greenwoodlad]

a colleague could have said "write this one down suzy"
thus an entry in pencil awaiting confirmation also notice written in the middle of the page notice the different r's and the dodgy "s" this is so wrong i think 37 shorrolds added

is the middle entry in pencil? all looks the same to me - and looks like same person wrote all the entries?

 

[Kasparthecat1]

They spent a week searching at Dead Woman's Ditch in 2001. The police thought Cannan drove Suzy there from London. I was wondering if he could have made such a journey, in a typical small car of the era, without having to stop for petrol somewhere on the way there or back.

To me it makes no sense why Sjl's body would be at Dead Woman's ditch. It's beyond Bridgwater! It's an odd choice. Presumably the police thought she could be there as JC had dumped SB's body there. So JC being retrofitted to a crime which he may or may not have committed.

 

[lee sumner]

its a good theory ....so nearly 39 years later ...where are those car keys ....with Suzy's body? ...in some undergrowth now buried due to time? destroyed? would they have DNA on them after all this time? why not leave them in the car if you had wiped them ? or does this mean Suzy had them, left the car in a hurry and Suzy was the last person to leave that car, maybe she forgot her purse and left the car in a hurry could she have been followed and wanted to run away quickly so just abandoned the car?

the keys/sturgis key tags, very unique looking. i believe mr kipper wanted more than 1 trophy. he kept them hidden someone where. i would love to know what happened to these missing items, as well as SL herself obviously.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

View attachment 556244
is the middle entry in pencil? all looks the same to me - and looks like same person wrote all the entries?

I think it's been established that all entries were made by Sjl. Also, there were no details for "Kipper" written in the office records, which was against office protocol.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Because it was him and he slipped up there big time,

That was DV's theory in support of Sjl's never intending to go to SR. The lead officer, Nick Carter is featured on a Crimewatch episode with a identical fob, stating that it is missing along with the keys to SR.

 

[Ljh21]

a colleague could have said "write this one down suzy"
thus an entry in pencil awaiting confirmation also notice written in the middle of the page notice the different r's and the dodgy "s" this is so wrong i think 37 shorrolds added

That was DV's theory in support of Sjl's never intending to go to SR. The lead officer, Nick Carter is featured on a Crimewatch episode with a identical fob, stating that it is missing along with the keys to

View attachment 556244
is the middle entry in pencil? all looks the same to me - and looks like same person wrote all the entries?

i guess people see different things, but all good we are all looking for the same result! Back to the car, shorrolds road with notoriously bad parking and just a short walk from the office, If suzy had walked then the colleague theory could not happen as her car needs to move, so i will take that one as a plus for them

 

[Ljh21]

That was DV's theory in support of Sjl's never intending to go to SR. The lead officer, Nick Carter is featured on a Crimewatch episode with a identical fob, stating that it is missing along with the keys to SR.

can anyone clear up the bmw stolen from belgium, it was said to be stolen in september but what if it was only reported in september?

 

[greenwoodlad]

What is "not so"?

We don't know that she went to a viewing. We know that she wrote it down in her appointments book, but we don't know if it was genuine or a cover for some private arrangement. We don't know if Kipper was a real name, a pseudonym, a nickname, or a name she made up. You wouldn't make a very good detective if you accept everything you're told without examining it and double-checking it.

Agree with this!

 

[greenwoodlad]

Yes, I think the tennis thing was prob just DL being DL. We know that SJL didn't share everything with her mum. DV jumped on it because he could use it to support his own theories.

If she had a tennis date there's no reason why the tennis partner would not have come forward - they'd have wondered where she was for one thing. Maybe a court booking somewhere. It was raining that evening as well, not great tennis weather unless indoors.

Yep there was no tennis date planned ....
1 . Suzy didn't take any tennis gear
2. No tennis partner came forward
3. where was this taking place?

 

[Ljh21]

IIRC none, but the assertion that SJL's DNA had been found is misleading because as I recall what was found was a 60% match. This doesn't mean there's a 60% probability that it's hers, apparently; it just means it's a match with 60% of the population, including her. This a lot less persuasive of her having been in that car because it really just narrows it down to her or 30 million other people. Even a 99% match would include 600 000 people.

Welcome to the thread

The keys to 37SR are a vexed question. The early reconstructions suggested that colleagues remembered her taking the keys, that witnesses saw her outside 37SR with them and that she was seen and heard her leaving 37SR having been inside. The police forensication in contrast said that nobody had been inside that day. In AS' book, MG is said to have searched inside the house before he called the police. In DV's book, MG would have gone for lunch before she needed the keys, and it's not obvious why anyone else would have remembered her taking them. All this casts doubt on whether she took them. Fogging the picture still more, a witness in the house opposite where her car was found in Stevenage Road said it was already there by 12.50. This makes it very hard for her to have been at 37SR at 12.45 before or 1pm after that viewing, and if true, points to there not having been one.

The police did look at whether she was involved with anyone in the office and concluded not. There are really only three candidates - MG, NH and the guy who was abroad on hols that week. We can eliminate the latter, and also NH for being 18yo to her 25. This leaves only MG, who does actually resemble the Kipper sketches IMO. But then if these were a description of men seen at the property that day, well, MG was there all right - looking for SJL.

The role of the keys was an important detail to bottom out, which does not appear to have been done.

Hypothetically if a staff member had used sjl car and parked at 123, sjl had been at 37 sr mg turned up and event happened sjl put in another sturgis car, then her purse would have to be placed in the car @ 123 explaining why the purse was there, then the seat moved to an obviously unusual position suggesting someone else moved it or were looking for something.

I wouldn't go that far. He's essentially saying that there are only so many places SJL is known to have been heading - home, her mother's, 37SR, 123SR, or the PoW. The latter is, very oddly, the only one that was never searched, and about which some rather peculiar anomalies have arisen.

I don't buy his theory because
1/ he hasn't shown the pub was empty or closed
2/ he hasn't given any motive for why someone there would spontaneously kill her
3/ an accident makes little sense, because why would you cover it up if it was an innocent accident?
4/ hiding her body under the floor totally incriminates the 1986 temporary manager whenever she is found
5/ the floor in question was taken up and relaid a few years later, and nobody noticed any estate agents under there
6/ if for argument's sake you allow 1 to 3, the better place to hide a body would be behind the pub on the railway embankment, i.e. a place that does not link her only to your own pub
7/ the timing of getting rid of her car requires it to have arrived opposite 123SR no earlier than about 1.30, but witnesses saw it there much earlier
8/ it doesn't satisfactorily address the BW sighting of SJL still alive at 2.45.

He's right to bring this up IMO.

agree as no proof of her anywhere after supposedly leaving work, i cannot shake that her purse was left in the car, for me that is the clue as it puts all the focus on that sturgis car and that location, now if she was driving or put in another sturgis car that would explain the point of leaving her purse there, if sjl was with mg and heading along the road where she was supposedly seen by witness , what sturgis properties were in that direction or did mg live in that direction?