There is a lot of talk about whether or not a judge would order a child at 13 yo to go to visit the NCP if the child didn't want to or if the CP thought it was dangerous.
I was personally in this situation, my children were ordered to visit their parent and absolutely did NOT want to. The NCP made it more difficult by changing the flight to an extended time period and completely different dates. My attorney got an emergency hearing (so emergency it was conducted over the phone) the judge simply said that if I did not comply I would go to jail, period, end of discussion.
He based his decission on what he felt was best for the children (time with the other parent) and discounted the games played by the NCP even before the children left as a sign of non-compliance and contempt.
She had no choice.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience.. I cannot express how much sympathy I have for those like you and your children who have been in this situation as it is truly unimaginable the overwhelming anxiety and stress that it causes ..yes, for the parent, but more importantly for the children who are rendered helpless as far as what they feel in the situation. Their entire feelings, thoughts, and quite frankly their well being are many times just completely discredited..not validated..and IMO left with very much the impression that they as a whole do no matter due to the fact that are put through the nerve wracking, stressful situation of having to open up and voice any of their private family problems to a virtual stranger(ie. When their giving their point of view to the courts via judge or other court appointed official) and then for that to not even in the end be worth a damn or seem to even matter by there being zero validation of what they've just so difficulty expressed ..
The children in and around Dylan's age are absolutely aware of the manipulation that the NCP is using them as in a way to hurt their primary parent(you in your case, <modsnip>).. Just because the judge presiding over the case my be blind to the overt manipulation and use of the children as merely pawns in a game of exerting control, punishment, revenge, etc over the ex spouse/primary parent.
Sadly it all comes down to the judge in the case and whether they are turning a blind eye(whether intentional of unintentional) to the acts and intentions of the NCP in their using innocent children to inflict control and/or punishment and in ordering the children to mandatory court ordered visitation despite their wishes, needs, and expressing their concerns of the situation..
You are correct in that many judges for whatever reason UNLESS THÈRE ARE EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES(as in more than one) OF OVERT ABUSE WITH HARD PROOF BACKING IT(meaning the children's word alone in many cases is not sufficient)..then the judge will absolutely order that the children are to go on court ordered, scheduled visits..
So, while I am not stating as fact that this was the exact or similar situation in Dylan's case I will no longer tip toe around what are very real possibilities for why Dylan is no longer here. I will openly voice my opinion on the matter and will make zero apology for stating such opinion..
IT IS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOMETHING EXTREMELY SIMILAR ARE THE DYNAMICS AS WELL AS SIMILAR COURT SITUATION AS DESCRIBED ABOVE AND AS MANY OF US KNOW ALL TOO WELL THAT TYPE OF OVERWHELMING, VOLATILE SITUATION IS ABSOLUTELY THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH A HORRENDOUS TRAGEDY OCCURS SUCH AS THE DISAPPEARANCE OF DYLAN!
AGAIN, thank you azgrandma for sharing your personal experience giving just a glimpse into some of the very, real, ugly issues within family court and custody.:hug:
I for one would have NEVER allowed my daughter to go visit her father if she did not want to. Thats just me. I am very Lucky that my daughter's father did not have an interest in continuing a relationship with his daughter. The day I kicked him out is the last day he saw her, she was 4. She'll be 28 sooner then she'd prefer and is very well adjusted I may add. I can not imagine that Dylan was not aware of the battle that was going on that involved him.
I agree with you that IMO its absolutely not even realistic to think that Dylan could have been anything other than FULLY AWARE OF THE VOLATILE, TUMULTUOUS FAMILY SITUATION..
I also understand your opinion on saying you would never ALLOW your child to go visit her father if she did not want to..and without a shadow of a doubt I would say that all of us momma's would adamantly say the exact same.. I know that I did.. and without going into some long, drawn out, droning post of what all occurred over a several year period of time(due to the fact that as most know I am extremely overly wordy and no matter what attempts I make at condensing info to make it short&sweet I've found I'm 100% incapable of doing such)...
I can only say that just as azgrandma shared with us in the above quoted post THIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE SPEAKING OF IS LITERALLY BEYOND OUR CONTROL AND THE RESULT OF MAKING GOOD ON WHAT WE ALL AS LOVING MOMMA'S SWEAR TO DO(ie. Not allow our child to go on the visitation with NCP when they do not want to go).. WHEN THE NCP DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN STICKING IT TO YA AT ALL COSTS, INCLUDING THE COST OF HURTING THEIR CHILD..WELL.. WHEN WE, THE MOMMA'S STEP UP AND SAY TO HELL WITH YOU&THE COURTS ORDER FOR MY CHILD TO BE FORCED TO GO..I, AS THE MOM SAY THEY WILL NOT GO!
WELL...I'll put it this way its not just a lil' ol contempt charge with some possible days in jail and a hefty fine..if that were all the consequences were then sure many of us momma's would gladly pay that price to stand firm on our child's not being FORCED TO GO ON THE COURT ORDERED VISITATION...but the consequences are much more dire to the point that you can very quickly find yourself on the other end of having yourself removed as the primary custodial parent and suddenly your child is in the primary custody of who was the NCP that you were adamant about not allowing court ordered VISITATION..well your actions landed your child in the primary custody of that parent and you as the NCP with a visitation schedule!..<--- now, when that brutal, harsh reality stares you down and your face to face with it YOU AS A MOMMA BEAR are suddenly in a situation that can go from bad to worse to hell on earth in literally 0 to 60mph.. its a terrifying, horrendous situation to be in when you have an ex spouse/NCP whose entire focus in life becomes ONLY ABOUT HURTING YOU..MAKING YOU PAY..AND YOUR CHILD IS THE WEAPON USED TO DO SO..
ITS A NIGHTMARE BEYOND EPIC PROPORTIONS AND TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE AND NOT AT ALL UNDERSTOOD BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF JUST HOW UGLY..JUST HOW QUICK THINGS CAN GET FOR YOU AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR YOUR CHILD...
IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY!.. there are judges that are aware of it, and are super great about spotting it from a mile away, and I cannot tell you just how extremely fortunate you are when you have this type judge presiding over your case when having an ex spouse that's out for blood to make you, his ex spouse PAY..AND PAY BIG FOR LEAVING HIM..AND THAT PAYMENT IS AT ALL COSTS OF YOUR CHILDS WELL BEING...
So, to have a judge that recognizes this and therefor not only doesn't allow it, but actually will call out the NCP for their attempts at using the courts and their child as a weapon to exact revenge on an ex spouse.. THIS TYPE JUDGE IS A BLESSING BEYOND COMPREHENSION DUE TO THE FACT THT IF YOU HAVE THE MISFORTUNE OF HAVING A JUDGE THAT TURNS A BLIND EYE TO IT AND IN DOING SO LITERALLY ALLOWS THE VINDICTIVE TYPE EX SPOUSE/PARENT TO LITERALLY RUIN THE LIVES OF THEIR INNOCENT CHILDREN..
IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY AND IF UNFORTUNATE TO FIND YOURSELF THERE YOU WILL QUICKLY FIND THAT YOU, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY YOUR PRECIOUS, INNOCENT CHILD IS FULLY AT THE MERCY OF THE COURTS..and if you choose not to comply you'll quickly see it go from bad to really bad to the worst of the worst..
I believe we all adamantly state that WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT..but when you go up against it, its many times your child who suffers a fate even far worse than what you can imagine..its not as easy as I, AS MOM SIMPLY WILL NOT ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN..that's not reality.
I feel like I can breathe now being able to get some stuff off my chest.
I was with my ex husband for 18 years, from the time I was 13 until I was 31.
I have only been divorced for 1 year, and he was abusive. Not from day one since only 13 but started around 16 and progressed. We did counsling, he took anger managment classes the whole 9 yards.
Now I know all cases are different but from MR's history I don't believe he ever changed and in my heart think it most likely takes very little to set him off. And since it seems Dylan was not to fond of him and since has gotten older, I feel he stood up to his dad, a man to me JMO would not be disrespect by a young boy , whom again JMO saw him as just that a young punk boy, not his young son.
ALL JMO but dad is involved in MOO.
Thanks Davia for sharing this with us and I believe you bring up an excellent point that may have been briefly glossed over much earlier..and that IMO is actually a very realistic possibility ...
IMO even more so due to the fact that there are glimpses seen through some of the court docs where not only older brother Cory stood up to dad(which resulted in dad filing a protective order against his 17yo son)..but also that Dylan to some degree even years ago was standing up to his dad as well.. at 9yoa when dad is staggering drunk and grabbing momma we know that Dylan lashed out and hit his father..this 4-5years ago and IMO I certainly and absolutely find it a very good possibility that now here we are 5 years later with obviously alot more hell that's been experienced in those almost 5 years that have passed with the BS back and forth in the court most recently WITHIN MERE DAYS OF DYLAN'S DISAPPEARANCE THERE IS YET ANOTHER COURT HEARING THAT RESULTS IN DYLAN <modsnip> VISITATION!!
IMO you better believe its possible that Dylan could have stood up to dad and things IMO would have gone very bad from there.jmo.
As I said I will make no apologies whatsoever for openly voicing my very real concerns of what has happened to this innocent young man, Dylan Nicholas Redwine and that the very realistic truth of the matter is that IMO quite likely whatever happened involved his very own, flesh and blood father, Mark Redwine.
All jmo!
ETA: Both quotes and link to the fact that the most recent court hearing was in NOVEMBER(as mentioned above mere days prior to Dylan's disappearance)as well as a quote stating the visitation that Dylan was on was a COURT ORDERED VISITATION.
Dylan Redwine disappeared on Nov. 19, one day after he arrived at his dad's Vallecito area home on a court-ordered visitation for Thanksgiving
http://www.9news.com/news/article/303598/339/Missing-boys-family-had-violent-history
Also in the video at the link it states that 9news have obtained information and court documents, some of the recent court documents are sealed that contain statements given by Dylan Redwine from the court hearings in September as well
AS THE MOST RECENT COURT HEARING IN NOVEMBER 2012