17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #8

[csziggy]

Still struggling with this girls report of what she heard. If your trespassing on private property why would you wonder why someone was following you? After all you know your trespassing and you know your in the wrong. According to the girl, Trayvon asked GZ, why he was following him. GZ responded with What are you doing around here?
I think he knew perfectly well, why he was being followed. Trayvons had some problems in the past and didn't need a trespassing charge. Obviously there was a fight of some kind.
Question is, If you had a strong guy beating you up and not stopping and you had a gun, would you shoot him to stop him?
That doesn't need an answer just trying to understand what took place here.
JMO

JUST THINKING OUT LOUD...........

TM was NOT trespassing. As a guest of a resident of the community, he had every right to be there.

The question in my mind is why didn't GZ identify himself when he asked what TM was doing there. Both in the reports of GZ's statement to police and in the report from the girl friend, GZ never identified who he was.

 

[tehcloser]

WASN'T HE? Every condo association I worked for considered the common area private property.
I thought this was a gated community?

He was in the gated community, but his father's girlfriend lives there and that's where he was staying.

 

[flourish]

GZ May not have the bank account to afford the luxury of having paid protection.

Neither do I LOL. I suppose I was imagining people would voluntarily come to my aid. Of course, my personal bank account doesn't even afford the luxury of buying a gun.

 

[m00c0w]

Again, so many different ways to interpret sounds and conversation on a phone call. you are right, that may explain it it may not. So few facts, so much speculation. None of us have much more to go on.

I think GZ was on foot pursuit of TM after the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

Can I prove it. Nope. Just my own thoughts and opinions.

you feel GZ did end foot pursuit and was attacked, unprovoked, by TM. Can you prove it? Nope. Just your thoughts and opinions.

Please allow me to express my thanks to you. We have been viewing this case from different sides of the debate since this case got rolling. Thanks for keeping it civil and real in the exchanges we have had.

Posters such as yourself who may be disagreeing with me but whose posts are well thought out and articulate always make me think harder and consider new angles. That is something I am thankful for.

Ditto to you and others. I have no problem with opposing viewpoints, and enjoy testing my own ability to think outside of the box. I can certainly say my viewpoint has shifted since I started looking into this. I also agree about civility. I completely understand with what you were saying before with the snark and trying to keep yourself in check... I appreciate those very much that have been able to keep a level head and made legitimate attempts to work out how this entire tragedy came to be.

 

[iluvmua]

WASN'T HE? Every condo association I worked for considered the common area private property.
I thought this was a gated community?

It is a gated community, and Trayvon's father could have told someone who worked at the desk that his son is coming to stay with him for a while.

I don't think TM was trespassing.

 

[justthinkin]

He mentioned him, and she said he thought he got away. Then he apparently appeared again and words were exchanged. There was no real description given of how they encountered each other the second time. Just that Martin apparently made the first contact (verbally).

Yes, Martin asked why Zimmerman was following him to which Zimmerman failed to state he was part of a neighborhood watch team.

Martin was left in the dark on the matter.


Just because Zimmerman had a bloody nose and the back of his head scraped doesn't mean he didn't start a physical confrontation. We don't know who was screaming for help. Somehow I kind of doubt it was the guy with the gun though who was never the one being pursued.

My questions: How tall were both Martin and Zimmerman, and what did each weigh?

 

[vlpate]

The burglars were NOT just getting away...

Posted this before, will post again...

All without incident. Sounds like he was doing a good job.

There were more crimes that weren't solved - you won't find the information on facebook though.

 

[ziggy]

The same could be said for Trayvon. If I was truly afraid of someone, I wouldn't jump him, I'd run. Reasonable people might be afraid but think their fear is irrational. While he might have been afraid, he probably didn't think that TM would really attack him, especially since he was on the phone with LE.

IMO.

Trayvon scould have called 911 and they would have put two and two together, told him the guy watching him was a neighborhood watch dude, and relayed the info that TM was a guest of the community and on his way home and freaked out about being followed.

He's got a phone, he's old enough to know what to do. He didn't run to ditch GZ because apparently GZ caught up with him (which I don't think he could have done had TM run), so that leaves maybe TM did approach GZ and confront him about why he was being followed.

We've been told by news sources the GF said there was a short diaglog, "why are you following me?" and "what are you doing here?".

What prompted the scuffle? Why wasn't there a simple answer by TM? If GZ had simply wanted to shoot him, why not then? Why the scuffle?

I can't make any real judgments until I know who was yelling for help and who was pinned on their back on the grass. That is the person who had a right to use deadly force to protect themself.

 

[tehcloser]

It is a gated community, and Trayvon's father could have told someone who worked at the desk that his son is coming to stay with him for a while.

I don't think TM was trespassing.

:floorlaugh: So it's his father that lives there, not his father's gf, man I need a spread sheet.

 

[flourish]

Still struggling with this girls report of what she heard. If your trespassing on private property why would you wonder why someone was following you? After all you know your trespassing and you know your in the wrong. According to the girl, Trayvon asked GZ, why he was following him. GZ responded with What are you doing around here?
I think he knew perfectly well, why he was being followed. Trayvons had some problems in the past and didn't need a trespassing charge. Obviously there was a fight of some kind.
Question is, If you had a strong guy beating you up and not stopping and you had a gun, would you shoot him to stop him?
That doesn't need an answer just trying to understand what took place here.
JMO

JUST THINKING OUT LOUD...........

Who was trespassing???? Did I miss something? tia

 

[m00c0w]

Yes, Martin asked why Zimmerman was following him to which Zimmerman failed to state he was part of a neighborhood watch team.

Martin was left in the dark on the matter.


Just because Zimmerman had a bloody nose and the back of his head scraped doesn't mean he didn't start a physical confrontation. We don't know who was screaming for help. Somehow I kind of doubt it was the guy with the gun though who was never the one being pursued.

My questions: How tall were both Martin and Zimmerman, and what did each weigh?

Red herring. None of this means Zimmerman continued following Martin, which was the original claim.

 

[iluvmua]

Yes, Martin asked why Zimmerman was following him to which Zimmerman failed to state he was part of a neighborhood watch team.

Martin was left in the dark on the matter.


Just because Zimmerman had a bloody nose and the back of his head scraped doesn't mean he didn't start a physical confrontation. We don't know who was screaming for help. Somehow I kind of doubt it was the guy with the gun though who was never the one being pursued.

My questions: How tall were both Martin and Zimmerman, and what did each weigh?

We don't know if GZ told Martin that or not.

TM: 6 foot 3, 160 pounds (I've read 140 in other articles)
GZ: 5 foot 9, (Don't know how much GZ weighed, it seems like might have lost weight).

 

[songline]

Still struggling with this girls report of what she heard. If your trespassing on private property why would you wonder why someone was following you? After all you know your trespassing and you know your in the wrong. According to the girl, Trayvon asked GZ, why he was following him. GZ responded with What are you doing around here?
I think he knew perfectly well, why he was being followed. Trayvons had some problems in the past and didn't need a trespassing charge. Obviously there was a fight of some kind.
Question is, If you had a strong guy beating you up and not stopping and you had a gun, would you shoot him to stop him?
That doesn't need an answer just trying to understand what took place here.
JMO

JUST THINKING OUT LOUD...........

I am also thinking out loud.

Why would not George shoot him in the leg, arm, and shoulder??
I imagine thing happened very fast and not because GZ wanted to shoot and kill.
After all he spend days crying uncontrollably.
OK you all I know you do not pity him at all...

JUST THINK ABOUT IT... it does not make sense.
something happened and we do not know exactly what happened so we make it up as we go along
it is so wrong for us to make stuff like this up. Sadly one is dead does it make it right to hang the other?
Does this make us all any better then what we here are all writing about GZ? I don’t think so.

 

[flourish]

But you are speculating that he followed him in order to shoot him to stop him from getting away. That is a huge leap considering TM's girlfriend said she heard someone ask "what are you doing here?" So he was inquiring. We don't know if he caught up to TM or if TM came towards him as he was following from a distance. So many unknowns to just assume he followed him in order to shoot him. Also, you can hear a scuffle - a physical altercation very clearly on one of the 911 tapes so GM didn't just pull his firearm out and shoot the black kid in the hoodie the first chance he got.

It seems like that is what is being promoted by saying, "the next prudent step is to start doing more than observing and reporting." If you don't mean that his next prudent step was hunting him down and shooting him then please do explain.

I'm tired of that turn of events being furthered without any evidence.

I don't believe he followed him to simply continue to observe.
I think the next prudent step, if one is feeling their police department is not providing appropriate responses/outcomes would be a meeting with said department--I'd imagine there's some sort of legal grievance process a citizen could initiate to address concerns like this?

You're a law student, yeah? Do you know if there is a process like that? tia

 

[uvamerica]

And he also stuttered through that left turn that he couldn't seem to articulate. Him wanting the cops to call him doesn't imply much, IMO. He clearly wasn't great at giving directions.

This I find hard to believe, since the neighborhood consisted of 3 streets, and Zimmerman made his business to patrol these streets. HE decided to take control of a situation after he was told "don't need follow" He obviously did not stay with his truck, if he did and TM came back to where his truck was, WHY wasn't the crime scene where his truck was ??

 

[iluvmua]

Trayvon scould have called 911 and they would have put two and two together, told him the guy watching him was a neighborhood watch dude, and relayed the info that TM was a guest of the community and on his way home and freaked out about being followed.

He's got a phone, he's old enough to know what to do. He didn't run to ditch GZ because apparently GZ caught up with him (which I don't think he could have done had TM run), so that leaves maybe TM did approach GZ and confront him about why he was being followed.

We've been told by news sources the GF said there was a short diaglog, "why are you following me?" and "what are you doing here?".

What prompted the scuffle? Why wasn't there a simple answer by TM? If GZ had simply wanted to shoot him, why not then? Why the scuffle?

I can't make any real judgments until I know who was yelling for help and who was pinned on their back on the grass. That is the person who had a right to use deadly force to protect themself.

Totally Agree

 

[jjenny]

...

My questions: How tall were both Martin and Zimmerman, and what did each weigh?

There have been various weights and heights given for both of them.

 

[m00c0w]

This I find hard to believe, since the neighborhood consisted of 3 streets, and Zimmerman made his business to patrol these streets. HE decided to take control of a situation after he was told "don't need follow" He obviously did not stay with his truck, if he did and TM came back to where his truck was, WHY wasn't the crime scene where his truck was ??

No one's suggested he stayed at his truck. It's obvious he didn't. But that also doesn't mean he continued to actively pursue Martin.

 

[Donjeta]

Trayvon scould have called 911 and they would have put two and two together, told him the guy watching him was a neighborhood watch dude, and relayed the info that TM was a guest of the community and on his way home and freaked out about being followed.

He's got a phone, he's old enough to know what to do. He didn't run to ditch GZ because apparently GZ caught up with him (which I don't think he could have done had TM run), so that leaves maybe TM did approach GZ and confront him about why he was being followed.

We've been told by news sources the GF said there was a short diaglog, "why are you following me?" and "what are you doing here?".

What prompted the scuffle? Why wasn't there a simple answer by TM? If GZ had simply wanted to shoot him, why not then? Why the scuffle?

I can't make any real judgments until I know who was yelling for help and who was pinned on their back on the grass. That is the person who had a right to use deadly force to protect themself.

Was there a simple answer from GZ? He could have told TM he was the neighborhood watch dude when asked to explain the stalking.

 

[lauriej]

We don't know if GZ told Martin that or not.

TM: 6 foot 3, 160 pounds (I've read 140 in other articles)
GZ: 5 foot 9, (Don't know how much GZ weighed, it seems like might have lost weight).

..george's "friend joe oliver" said on nancy grace last night, that george weighed 250 in the old 2005 mugshot------but currently weighs "about 170".