4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

[Zinn]

I would be really curious to know if BK's long standing habit of going out for drives alone at night stopped after the night of the murders. Based on his area of study, I would think that King Road would become even more interesting to him after the Idaho murders. Look at the attention that crime scenes draw. I am curious if BK lost his interest in King Road...

PCA indicates his phone connected to cell resources that serve Moscow (did not say King Rd specifically) on 11/14 but they don’t believe he was in Moscow at that time. No further Moscow pings after that.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

I would be really curious to know if BK's long standing habit of going out for drives alone at night stopped after the night of the murders. Based on his area of study, I would think that King Road would become even more interesting to him after the Idaho murders. Look at the attention that crime scenes draw. I am curious if BK lost his interest in King Road...

The PCA says:

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122922+Affidavit+-+Exhibit+A+-+Statement+of+Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687433428906491904

 

[pseudo_hum]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687433428906491904

Sure, what else could he say. He has no defense, his only hope is tearing the state's case apart. IMO

 

[Maat99]

All that hoo-ha about an alibi- and this is the best they can do-- kinda pathetic isn't it?

I really think that strategy backfired. It seems like it would be better to quietly submit this type of alibi rather than create so much hype.

I’m sure they have little to work with but still. This alibi reads like a quasi confession to me. “Yes I was driving around that night. But not in the areas where all the cameras and cell coverage says I was driving. Or if I was driving where all the cameras say I was, it’s because that’s just a thing I like to do for reasons that definitely don’t include stalking or acting on homicidal rage. “
umm ok? You just admitted that you were behind the wheel of your car - the same car caught on camera at the murder scene. That is half the battle lost with your alibi. IMO

 

[GA_Peach]

The PCA says:

View attachment 438986

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122922+Affidavit+-+Exhibit+A+-+Statement+of+Brett-Payne.pdf

Of course, he didn't go back. He's the most unlucky innocent guy ever. He has a longstanding habit of taking drives alone at night. He drives by the victims' home 12 times in the months leading up the murder, including 3 times in the "immediate" timeframe of the murder. This might look like stalking/casing to the casual observer, but it's just a hobby! Plus, his phone miraculously turns off during the window of the murders. If only his phone was on, he could have shown that he was still actively driving around town. Another unlucky coincidence! And then, he resumes his hobby of driving around alone by driving by the crime scene the next morning before anyone knows anything. Another unlucky break for him! But after the crime is discovered, he doesn't return at all?? This is a place that he drove by many times in the preceeding months, and he no longer has any interest in seeing it? He's a crime person! Maybe, without potential victims, it just lost its appeal. Nevermind - that's another coincidence. But after all of that, his DNA ends up on a sheath at the crime scene. Such an unfortunate set of coincidences for an innocent man.

Apparently, BK's other night time hobbies include separating his trash into baggies and disposing of it in his neighbor's trashcan.

 

[x_files]

We all know what "long habit of" driving at night means.....

They want to explain away the other late night/early morning visits ( stalking, hot stalking, dry runs, whatever) to the area around that house. Make them look innocuous.

I will admit though...this is not a bad tactic. When I lived on the West Coast I often went for late night drives on the Pacific Coast Highway to clear my head. Sometimes I even turned off my phone or left it at home to not be bothered (this was before I was married with kids). My DNA never ended up at the scene of a quadruple murder though.

Mistakes? Dunning-Kruger Effect?

@x_files Thanks for your post. Agreeing w ^.

Using the three ways "things go wrong" listed below,* I'm trying to decide where his most critical mistake was:
- ignoring bad odds,
- taking unnecessary risks, or
- failing to prepare for contingencies.

Maybe boo-boos in all three categories?
Thoughts, anyone, everyone?

______________________
* "... cognitive bias[2] whereby people with low ability, expertise, or experience regarding a type of task or area of knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge.
"Not all accounts of the Dunning–Kruger effect focus on its negative sides. Some also concentrate on its positive sides, e.g. that ignorance is sometimes bliss....To distinguish the negative from the positive sides, two important phases have been suggested to be relevant for realizing a goal: preparatory planning and the execution of the plan.... overconfidence may be beneficial in the execution phase by increasing motivation and energy. But it can be detrimental in the planning phase since the agent may ignore bad odds, take unnecessary risks, or fail to prepare for contingencies."

^ Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

yes, to all three. He overestimated his skills to avoid detection, removing DNA but missed leaving DNA on the knife's sheath, and left it behind, and underestimated GPS and cellphone pings and security footage. How could he be so blind to data from tech nowadays?
There are cameras everywhere ad cell phones track our every move.
The only real way to avoid detection is not to drive a car, walk in, have no cell phones, and not leave behind a sheath. But I'm sure he left DNA at the scene. It's almost impossible to avoid dropping a strand of hair unless you are 100% bald and burn off your fingerprints/wear gloves at all times.

It's quite possible he knew he'd be caught but relishes the idea of being an INFAMOUS SK.

 

[x_files]

Of course, he didn't go back. He's the most unlucky innocent guy ever. He has a longstanding habit of taking drives alone at night. He drives by the victims' home 12 times in the months leading up the murder, including 3 times in the "immediate" timeframe of the murder. This might look like stalking/casing to the casual observer, but it's just a hobby! Plus, his phone miraculously turns off during the window of the murders. If only his phone was on, he could have shown that he was still actively driving around town. Another unlucky coincidence! And then, he resumes his hobby of driving around alone by driving by the crime scene the next morning before anyone knows anything. Another unlucky break for him! But after the crime is discovered, he doesn't return at all?? This is a place that he drove by many times in the preceeding months, and he no longer has any interest in seeing it? He's a crime person! Maybe, without potential victims, it just lost its appeal. Nevermind - that's another coincidence. But after all of that, his DNA ends up on a sheath at the crime scene. Such an unfortunate set of coincidences for an innocent man.

Apparently, BK's other night time hobbies include separating his trash into baggies and disposing of it in his neighbor's trashcan.

I think if I was a creepy looing loner guy I'd AVOID doing things that made people esp. women fear me like STARE, STALK, and take long drives at night stalking women.
It's as if no one told him, "Het, dude stop acting like a CREEP!" You'd think his best friend or sisters would be first to point it out. STOP BEING CREEPY!
If he ends up NOT guilty and someone else confesses to framing him he is the world's most unlucky guy.

 

[Jurisprudence]

PCA indicates his phone connected to cell resources that serve Moscow (did not say King Rd specifically) on 11/14 but they don’t believe he was in Moscow at that time. No further Moscow pings after that.

I think they have pretty reliable CAST data and analysis. And the reason I think this is that I read AT's motion as conceding the point that he was in his car and around that area on the night in question.

She could have easily said he was home in his apartment, asleep with his phone turned off, woke up early, as he is an early riser, and turned it back on. But, she didn't.

Instead, she's conceding he was in the area driving around. Does that put him in the house and committing these acts? No. But it doesn't look good. Particularly when his phone was off, and then on. As TL45 pointed out #831 he never turned his phone off on any of the previous 12 occasions they tracked him to the King Road residence area during his "night time drives." This tells me (right or wrong) that the defense has reviewed the cell phone data, and while they will still try to argue its accuracy, they're essentially acknowledging that they will lose on the point and must therefore, come up with an answer to explain it.

jmo

 

[GA_Peach]

I think if I was a creepy looing loner guy I'd AVOID doing things that made people esp. women fear me like STARE, STALK, and take long drives at night stalking women.
It's as if no one told him, "Het, dude stop acting like a CREEP!" You'd think his best friend or sisters would be first to point it out. STOP BEING CREEPY!
If he ends up NOT guilty and someone else confesses to framing him he is the world's most unlucky guy.

And I certainly wouldn't want my attorney describing all this creepy behavior as a longstanding habit. I don't think this "alibi" works at all. In fact, I think it works against him. We are supposed to believe that every other piece of evidence fits BK except the part where he commits the murders.

Reminds me of Bridge Guy in the Delphi case. He put himself on the bridge at the time of the murders! I am assuming he thought it was preferable to being caught in a lie. That's the best he could do because all the eyewitnesses and surveillance video put him there. Same with BK. He can't escape the evidence, so he has to work with it. It just looks and sounds more incredulous with each passing day.

 

[arielilane]

• 08/02/2023 Objection

Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time; at this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment of the hours between late night November 12, 2022 and early morning November 13, 2022. He was out, driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12-13, 2022.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Jurisprudence]

And, I also think that neither of those scenarios sets itself up for any corroborating witnesses. But, that she chose the path of "he was there driving around and has a habit of doing this" (and that habit would have to include crossing state lines into Moscow) precisely because she has no corroborating witnesses. At least with option 2 she has a chance to elicit something helpful on cross (i.e. the data is off by miles). I still think CAST is too accurate for that argument but I think that's all she's got. Edit to say, I realize his phone was off on the night in question (there is video of the vehicle) but there are 12 prior occasions plus the morning after that this evidence would directly apply to.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

It seems like it would be better to quietly submit this type of alibi rather than create so much hype.

[snipped by me]

That's a really good point imo. If she had only complied at the outset she could have asked the court to put it under seal because it was still developing work product, and we'd be none the wiser. But she skirted the rules again, had to reply to the state's brief, and in being what seems consumed with coming up with an argument in response, probably didn't think to request it be sealed.

So, now we all know.
jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

• 08/02/2023 Objection

Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time; at this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment of the hours between late night November 12, 2022 and early morning November 13, 2022. He was out, driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12-13, 2022.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

MOO, reading between the lines, "Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time..." says to me that she thinks this is a loser point but she's not going to go the extra mile to say "And yes! He was actually on King Rd making that 3-point turn" because she has to give herself some room to work with.

She has to have room to see what she can develop through expert witness testimony (that he could have been a few miles away). But to even address this at all tells me she's conceded the point without expressly conceding it. This is especially true if she's in possession (via discovery) of video camera footage on the date and around the times in question, of a white Elantra on King Road with no front license plate.

That's only how I read it. MOO, not fact of course.

 

[RANCH]

Kohberger's lawyer wrote she anticipates "corroborating witnesses" would back up his explanation, adding "corroboration" of "Kohberger NOT being at 1122 King may be brought out through cross-examination of the state’s witnesses" and through "expert witness presentation. That analysis is underway."

The "alibi" the defense hopes to use is not a real alibi. They are saying that the state can not prove that BK was at the murder scene at the time of the murders. I don't think it will work.

They had to admit that BK wasn't home at the time of the murders and they don't have any witness's that can say where he was. That means no alibi. JMO.

"Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time; at this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment of the hours between late night November 12, 2022, and early morning November 13, 2022.He was out, driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12-13, 2022."

Lawyer for Idaho college killings suspect Bryan Kohberger says he was driving alone night of murders

Bryan Kohberger, the doctoral candidate accused of killing four Idaho college students last fall says he wasn't in the home where the homicides occurred and was driving around alone that night, according to a new court filing. Kohberger's lawyer said the defense "cannot be more specific" about...

ca.style.yahoo.com

 

[dgfred]

Yeah, he didn't need to turn off his phone the 12 previous times he was out for a drive within cellular resource range of King Rd.

Next he says: Those 12 times I did not... the other 10+ times (not accounted for) I did.

Next: Knife sheath probably flew out window that night... picked up by victim(s), food delivery guy, etc
maybe stuck to shoes or clothes.

 

[DianeElaine]

Ok, so BK has a long-standing habit of driving around the area at night when he can’t sleep. How many times *after the murders* did he drive around the area at night?

 

[dgfred]

Hey DE... too afraid to go into the area afterwards.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yea, right. And Alex Murdaugh was catnapping on the sofa while his wife and son were being murdered.

 

[10ofRods]

I'd bet many donuts that on BK's two trips via the southern route back to Pullman (through Genesee/Clarkston areas) were the only two times there's evidence of him driving there. The second time he clearly goes to 1122 King Rd. Perhaps to look for the sheath, just in case. For all we know, he left some other evidence behind and retried and disposed of that, too.

I can't wait to find out what he actually bought at Albertson's. I doubt it was breakfast. Even if they never found evidence of the crime along that route, I'm guessing he stopped more than just one time per trip. My own theory is that he bought something with which to continue cleaning his car, and was in Clarkston long enough to park near the Snake River (across the street from Albertson's, basically) and to perhaps clean the driver area of his car one more time. He didn't want to re-contaminate his shoes or clothing that day.

He might have/would have had cleaning elements from his apartment, after showering, etc. I figure he was pretty paranoid about the cleaning and disposal of cleaning products.

If he had been on that route before, I'd wager it was just one time (searching out possible evidence disposal sites). But I doubt he was ever there before, he used maps.google or similar to figure out where to go that was more rural (I can't say "wilderness" because it isn't, he could have found much more remote areas by driving east of Moscow, IMO.

All JMO.