Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[sunshineray]

Why was nobody else spotted around the bridge moments before the girls crossed?

We can place RA there from witnesses and the fact he also said he went out on the first platform.

If you want to blame a ridiculous cult for the murders then you have to place them at the scene and there simply is nothing to suggest multiple men were hanging that bridge at 1.45pm.

Moo

I agree. Though I will also say we have Anna William's interview that LE told her 50+ people were in and about the area that afternoon. Who they all were and what they were doing can only be answered by LE at trial.

AW's Sept 2020 interview...50+ people- 27:45

 

[Willow Knight]

For those who believe that RA is responsible for this vicious murder and no one else, how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s about what he had been involved in and what he personally did, spit on Abby and put sticks in her hair (horns, because she was a “troublemaker”). Remember, this is not his sisters making this up for something to do or attract attention. They were obviously VERY concerned about the people he was hanging out with and the possibility that he was involved in A & L’s murder. And what they didn’t know at that time, was that that is how Abby was found, with sticks in her hair/head.

Just speaking for myself, if my 9 year old grandson, came to me and said he was present at a train bridge (and believe it or not, there’s one not to far from their house and trails too!) where girls were murdered and he spit on one of them and stuck sticks in her hair, I’d be contacting LE too, just like EF’s sisters did. And then, I would expect LE to investigate EVERYONE he was playing with that day. Of course, EF is not a nine year old but possesses the cognitive capacity of a child. He has adult friends, with phones, that deal in meth and have no problem kidnapping people. What else are they involved in?

Help me understand HOW EF can be explained away.

"...how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s..."

If I can respond, and only my speculation. Possibly EF was trying to look important and heard rumors about the search details. I assume we will hear what his sister said during trial. Not sure if her statements were made public. What is more important to me is that his sister did indeed report to LE what she heard. AND LE did investigate the report.

At this point I can only go on what LE did once EF was investigated and/or what they did not do. LE did not charge EF. Which leaves me to believe LE does not believe EF was involved or LE does not have enough evidence to charge him with a crime. Also, I do not believe this was some type of religious ritual. The killer may have a religious path, mainstream or not, however I do not believe that is why the girls were murdered.

 

[sunshineray]

Aside from the fact RA was on/near the bridge and wore clothing depicted on the man in the video, I would like to know why pretty much everyone in law enforcement and local courts decided to pin the crime on some innocent CVS employee with all this evidence of "Odinists" apparently laying around. What makes RA a better perpetrator to stand before a judge than what your Average Joe would probably describe as weird culty people? Think of those headlines.**

** Not saying they are, but many people would think that.

They may have heard from a witness...I think it's possible someone came forward with information, possibly from RA, either overheard or spoken directly. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Brad Holder and Pat Wesfall of Delphi were noted as connected to the murders in Delphi in 2017. Holders wife testified he met with Abby Williams multiple times, and there were pictures on his phone of the girls with sticks arranged in Norsk formations. In 2017, Delphi police used a DVR set to record interviews.
Former Police Chief Mullins testified he noticed the DVR was set to continuously record months after recording Holders interview. The interview was reportedly lost. He also says the FBI never recorded Westfall’s interview.
Source

Ok so again, incomplete reporting. WHEN did she see pictures of the girls at the crime scene...after MW leaked them?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I still think it's just too coincidental that KAK's anthony_shots account was in contact with Libby on the day she was murdered.

The only source for this misinformation is the interrogation transcript. There is no such statement by LE.

The reasons for DC's question may lie in the network of C S A M degenerates revealed by LE.

It was never shown that KAK was involved in a network of of CSAM degenerates. There have been numerous arrests for this in Indiana in the past few years, I have posted some of them on the KAK threads. I don't recall any "networks" in Delphi or Carroll County, so DC was not talking about that with his vague questions of "why did it happen here" etc.
I haven't seen any arrest of anyone that was shown to have a connection with KAK.

 

[layer]

Ok so again, incomplete reporting. WHEN did she see pictures of the girls at the crime scene...after MW leaked them?

The words "crime scene" did not appear in the reporting. The photos were apparently on BH's phone, seen and testified to by his wife.
I agree, we need more info!

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The words "crime scene" did not appear in the reporting. The photos were apparently on BH's phone, seen and testified to by his wife.
I agree, we need more info!

Agree we don’t have enough information here.
Big points need precise statements. It seems these witnesses have been coached to allude. TC described a kidnapping of an “individual” named Wiener. Leaving room for speculation and sound bytes.
Now we have AH saying she “saw photographs of the girls with stick formations”. What girls? When? Where did you find the pictures? Were the sticks literal trees, a woodpile, game? Were the girls alive? Where they taken from crime scene? Who took them?
If you want to have a compelling witness you don’t have them dance around facts.
Simple statements please!
It’s not hard. My conclusion Belie! Belie! Belie

 

[sunshineray]

The only source for this misinformation is the interrogation transcript. There is no such statement by LE.

It was never shown that KAK was involved in a network of of CSAM degenerates. There have been numerous arrests for this in Indiana in the past few years, I have posted some of them on the KAK threads. I don't recall any "networks" in Delphi or Carroll County, so DC was not talking about that with his vague questions of "why did it happen here" etc.
I haven't seen any arrest of anyone that was shown to have a connection with KAK.

The transcript was an LE document filed with the court and downloaded by a citizen on the court website. In it is also mention of the biggest C S A M in Indiana's history being uncovered. Mention of anthony_shots and emily accounts as well as KAK's dropbox are also mentioned. Everything I posted about possible connections between those things I declared as All Just My Opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

Agree we don’t have enough information here.
Big points need precise statements. It seems these witnesses have been coached to allude. TC described a kidnapping of an “individual” named Wiener. Leaving room for speculation and sound bytes.
Now we have AH saying she “saw photographs of the girls with stick formations”. What girls? When? Where did you find the pictures? Were the sticks literal trees, a woodpile, game? Were the girls alive? Where they taken from crime scene? Who took them?
If you want to have a compelling witness you don’t have them dance around facts.
Simple statements please!
It’s not hard. My conclusion Belie! Belie! Belie

It can be also due to very bad and incomplete reporting of what was said by this witness on the stand. It happens all the time and sometimes on purpose.

 

[katydid23]

Might also mean he was worried that after he confessed to his wife and mother five (or possible more) times to killing two children, his wife disconnected the phone call? I suppose that's just as possible?

Ooooh, I think you might be on to something. He may have been worried about his family because he confessed to a brutal crime and he is worried how they are taking it now.

 

[Cool Cats]

For those who believe that RA is responsible for this vicious murder and no one else, how would you explain away EF’s admission to his sister’s about what he had been involved in and what he personally did, spit on Abby and put sticks in her hair (horns, because she was a “troublemaker”). Remember, this is not his sisters making this up for something to do or attract attention. They were obviously VERY concerned about the people he was hanging out with and the possibility that he was involved in A & L’s murder. And what they didn’t know at that time, was that that is how Abby was found, with sticks in her hair/head.

Just speaking for myself, if my 9 year old grandson, came to me and said he was present at a train bridge (and believe it or not, there’s one not to far from their house and trails too!) where girls were murdered and he spit on one of them and stuck sticks in her hair, I’d be contacting LE too, just like EF’s sisters did. And then, I would expect LE to investigate EVERYONE he was playing with that day. Of course, EF is not a nine year old but possesses the cognitive capacity of a child. He has adult friends, with phones, that deal in meth and have no problem kidnapping people. What else are they involved in?

Help me understand HOW EF can be explained away.

I'm just now familiarizing myself with this case as I want to understand it better for trial this May 2024, unless they moved it.

I am looking over these....

Delphi unsealed documents - 284 pages​

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

---

Original Document (PDF) »
Contributed by Law&Crime (Law&Crime)


.....and find it interesting that RA confessed to his wife that he committed the murders. See attachment.

I am not familiar with anyone being involved other than RA.

Who is EF and why is this person not charged? I need links to the information.

Thanks

 

[katydid23]

Why was nobody else spotted around the bridge moments before the girls crossed?

We can place RA there from witnesses and the fact he also said he went out on the first platform.

If you want to blame a ridiculous cult for the murders then you have to place them at the scene and there simply is nothing to suggest multiple men were hanging that bridge at 1.45pm.

Moo

That's one of my biggest issues with that theory as well. Why didn't anyone else report seeing a group of males in that immediate area. EF was very young and mentally immature---he wouldn't have been able to sneak around very well---why didn't anyone notice him I wonder?

 

[katydid23]

I agree. Though I will also say we have Anna William's interview that LE told her 50+ people were in and about the area that afternoon. Who they all were and what they were doing can only be answered by LE at trial.

AW's Sept 2020 interview...50+ people- 27:45

I am assuming that if EF and any other Odinists were there that the investigation into them would have intensified rather than coming to a conclusion. JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

Will the people who believe that RA is totally innocent of killing Libby and Abby, and that EF and other Odinists were the culprits, please explain to me why you don’t want this case to go to trial?
It seems that some don’t want to hear the prosecution’s evidence. I, for one, am tired of hearing nothing but unsupported theories of what the defense says about all of this, and it’s only the defense we are hearing from. I don’t care what they think about it. It means nothing. I pretty much don’t give a d@mn anymore about whether the defense are Boy Scouts or scoundrels.
The outrage that would be heard if the prosecution was to write a motion with not so veiled evidence showing RA is guilty. Indiana would probably catch fire and heads would explode.
I am tired of discussion perpetuating rumor and speculation and more recently, ideas even trending toward conspiracy theories. Odinists, LE, prosecution, prison guards, judges, county officials, the victims’ families, softball umpires, preachers, blonde haired people, brown haired people, small children and dogs. Everybody is involved. Eventually every person in Indiana will be connected somehow to Delphi.
I tend to think RA is guilty, but I honestly don’t know. I would like to hear the evidence, in a court of law, from both sides, with witnesses under oath, and cross examinations, and expert witnesses, instead of vague footnotes at the bottom of motions.

^^^^^^^^^
THIS!!!

 

[sunshineray]

I am assuming that if EF and any other Odinists were there that the investigation into them would have intensified rather than coming to a conclusion. JMO

Couldn't agree more

 

[susiQ]

Will the people who believe that RA is totally innocent of killing Libby and Abby, and that EF and other Odinists were the culprits, please explain to me why you don’t want this case to go to trial?

RSBM
Wow! Thanks for making that crystal clear. However, I challenge your assertion that those who feel RA may be/is innocent “don’t want this case to go to trial.” I feel that is truly an unfair assessment of our position. JMHO

 

[susiQ]

So AH saw pictures of Abby and Libby’s crime scene photos? Or is she referring to the photos that BH posted on his Facebook?
This makes no sense. If this was known back in September wouldn’t that have been included in the Franks memo?

On the one hand people are complaining that the FM contained WAY too much information and now lamenting that something wasn’t included?? Perhaps just like the P are keeping things back, maybe the D did to. JMT

 

[Salah11]

I agree. Though I will also say we have Anna William's interview that LE told her 50+ people were in and about the area that afternoon. Who they all were and what they were doing can only be answered by LE at trial.

AW's Sept 2020 interview...50+ people- 27:45

Yep but we know RA places himself on that first platform moments before the girls arrive according to eye witnesses.

From the photo on the bridge there are not multiple men in hoods stalking the girls.

Sometimes it is simply the boring old man in the street who it turns is a lot more sick and twisted than people realized. Mooooo

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM
Wow! Thanks for making that crystal clear. However, I challenge your assertion that those who feel RA may be/is innocent “don’t want this case to go to trial.” I feel that is truly an unfair assessment of our position. JMHO

I disagree. With everything that's been discussed, I think that assessment is spot on.

 

[Emma Peel]

Will the people who believe that RA is totally innocent of killing Libby and Abby, and that EF and other Odinists were the culprits, please explain to me why you don’t want this case to go to trial?
It seems that some don’t want to hear the prosecution’s evidence. I, for one, am tired of hearing nothing but unsupported theories of what the defense says about all of this, and it’s only the defense we are hearing from. I don’t care what they think about it. It means nothing. I pretty much don’t give a d@mn anymore about whether the defense are Boy Scouts or scoundrels.
The outrage that would be heard if the prosecution was to write a motion with not so veiled evidence showing RA is guilty. Indiana would probably catch fire and heads would explode.
I am tired of discussion perpetuating rumor and speculation and more recently, ideas even trending toward conspiracy theories. Odinists, LE, prosecution, prison guards, judges, county officials, the victims’ families, softball umpires, preachers, blonde haired people, brown haired people, small children and dogs. Everybody is involved. Eventually every person in Indiana will be connected somehow to Delphi.
I tend to think RA is guilty, but I honestly don’t know. I would like to hear the evidence, in a court of law, from both sides, with witnesses under oath, and cross examinations, and expert witnesses, instead of vague footnotes at the bottom of motions.

^^^^^^^^^
THIS!!!

Understandably, some folks remain open to the presumption of innocence while awaiting trial.
Also understandably, others lean one way or the other - as to the Defendant's guilt.

However, I've not seen where folks "don't want the case to go to trial".
(Excepting the Defense - they may feel this way. )

That being said, I have noticed that critical thinkers and those more familiar with rules of evidence (regardless of the side they may lean to) have begun to question whether or not this case can make it to trial for technical (due process/rule of law) reasons.

(See repetitive Motions to Dismiss filed to date, and consider the likelihood of more dismissal motions ahead once all discovery withheld by the P has been received and reviewed by the D.
See also BRADY ... 1963 U.S. Supreme Court case Brady v. Maryland.)

Anyway, considering potential roadblocks to trial - such as when Prosecution fails to fully share exculpatory evidence with the Defense by deadline - doesn't mean folks "don't want the case to go to trial".

For what its worth, things should move quickly along now and we'll likely learn quite a bit more on those details we are all very curious about with the flurry of pretrial motions and hearings ahead.

JMHO