Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[shotgun09]

Hannah Gutierrez has been in CYA mode since this tragedy happened. MOO

I agree! Who on set hasn't?

 

[SuziQ]

Why is the FBI involved in this? This was raised by the guest attorney last night on the video with Dan Abrams.

Imo, their expertise. The role of the FBI is to assist Law enforcement in addition to investigating Federal crimes.

 

[IceIce9]

I agree! Who on set hasn't?

AFAIK Hannah Gutierrez is the only one who has lied to investigators.

 

[Gardenista]

AFAIK Hannah Gutierrez is the only one who has lied to investigators.

What did she lie about?

 

[IceIce9]

What did she lie about?

Hannah Gutierrez told investigators there was no live ammo on set. And she is the head armorer, that is her responsibility.
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ shooting: Investigation focusing on where live rounds came from: LIVE UPDATES

 

[PrairieWind]

What did she lie about?

Based on what I have read so far, I don't see that she has lied. She allegedly said that live rounds SHOULDn't be on the set. Which is correct. I'm unsure if she said that there WERE NO live rounds on the set, which would clearly be incorrect. But let there be no doubt, she is in serious trouble here. It was her job to ensure that gun was safe and she failed. And I am beginning to believe that her failure here likely does rise to a criminal level.

Edited. So I just now read a new article that states she did indeed tell investigators that there was no live ammo on the set. That is clearly an incorrect statement. Did she lie, or did she not know of live ammo? It almost doesn't matter in my opinion. It was her job to know, and her job to ensure there were no live rounds in that gun. She didn't do it. Does that rise to the reckless level standard needed for criminal charges? I would say it does.

 

[Gardenista]

Hannah Gutierrez told investigators there was no live ammo on set. And she is the head armorer, that is her responsibility.
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ shooting: Investigation focusing on where live rounds came from: LIVE UPDATES

If you read the affidavit, that's not what she said.

 

[IceIce9]

If you read the affidavit, that's not what she said.

Armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed previously told investigators that no live ammo is kept on set. However, given that a live round was recovered from director Joel Souza's shoulder after the incident, the Sheriff called that statement "not accurate as far as I'm concerned."

From the article I linked

 

[Gardenista]

From the article I linked

It doesn't matter what the article says. Clearly they got it wrong since it's not stated in the affidavit.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Starting about 4 minutes in a Santa Fe CDA is on

Thanks for sharing. This was a very interesting video. So the attorney feels there will most likely be some time of charges. Most likely not murder charges but some type of charges.

 

[Arkay]

Edited. So I just now read a new article that states she did indeed tell investigators that there was no live ammo on the set. That is clearly an incorrect statement. Did she lie, or did she not know of live ammo? It almost doesn't matter in my opinion. It was her job to know, and her job to ensure there were no live rounds in that gun. She didn't do it. Does that rise to the reckless level standard needed for criminal charges? I would say it does.

SBM

IANAL and you are, but I agree it doesn't even matter whether she lied or she knew, IMO.

If she's a lying liar who lied, her consciousness of guilt is obvious.

If she was ignorant of the fact that at least one live round was present, then IMO her ignorance was criminally negligent. As the saying goes, she had ONE job.

Multiple precautions were allegedly in place to prevent a death on set from a gun. Those precautions were not adhered to and a little boy has lost his mother. It's not an accident as in Halyna, with nothing obstructing her, accidentally tripped, fell, hit her head and died. It's a case of ignorance, laziness, complacency or arrogance on the part of those who had one very important duty. HGR and/or DH IMO.

 

[Dotta]

Hannah Gutierrez told investigators there was no live ammo on set. And she is the head armorer, that is her responsibility.
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ shooting: Investigation focusing on where live rounds came from: LIVE UPDATES

And the Sheriff rebuked her publicly haha
The man doesnt beat about the bush! I like it

 

[10ofRods]

Gray Hughes has been covering the case for the last few nights, and gave a clever analogy.

Say you were a surgeon. You go in for an operation and ask a technician for a scalpel. Are you going to inspect and/or test the scalpel before you cut into your patient? No, your job is to focus on operating, not inspecting the tools you are using to operate. You heavily rely on your techs to have inspected all the tools before going into such a situation.

Alec had a job in this particular situation, and that was to act, to the best of his ability. Should he have checked the gun, considering he was a producer on the movie? Maybe? Not likely though. His job in that moment was to act. There were 2 other people the gun was passed through before AB was handed it, and both of those 2 people did have jobs to check the gun. He relied on both of them to hand him a safe gun. Unfortunately, they both failed him.

I do not have a very high opinion of AB as a person, but I do not find him responsible for the accidental shooting. I think it's an absolute tragedy, and I hope he finds a way to live with what he's done.

The AD on the other hand...very interesting that he has been on 2 sets with "accidental" shootings. The fact that he was AD on "The Crow: Salvation" is a crazy bizarre coincidence, too! I'm not calling him responsible (yet), but knowing that the armorer was young and new, and people were walking off the set due to safety issues with firearms, he absolutely should have inspected (and then inspected again!) the barrel to double check her. He was negligent, at best, and has the attention of my side-eye.

Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film AD Was Fired Before For Gun Discharge – Deadline

If a surgeon was handed the wrong tool or it was sterilized or whatever, then whoever hired the people who were assisting would have liability.

Two of the 5 production companies in this debacle go right back to Alec Baldwin; 3 others are tiny, independent filmmakers who just wanted their name on this production and probably ponied up some funds.

Who, in fact, was the producer who hired HG and the AD?

And if it's true, as her wikipedia says, Halyna was an activist and was organizing the strike about working conditions on the set, how convenient that she ends up dead. Since her husband is employed by one of the West Coast's most powerful law firms, a firm that specializes in liability and financial instruments for very large corporations (with worldwide branches), he certainly has a good pool of attorneys to counsel him on whether there could be something other than a wrongful death suit in this case. One of the crew has already hired an attorney and looks to be aiming at an intentional infliction of emotional distress suit. If it's true that this fiasco is covered by a mere $6M in liability, and that at least 2 of the production companies who owned this mess have deeper pockets than the others, it would not be unheard of for the producers to be sued for various torts. Even if the suits eventually fail, those production companies may have long months or years in court - and it will be expensive.

 

[Datchery]

I agree! I struggle with the excuse of ' I'm and actor...and I don't have time to be bothered with safety'.....I have my lines to remember....so someone else should be responsible..not me'

Why is this profession 'excused' from performing any safety procedures/protocols themselves? Especially with potential deadly weapons.

Elitism ?

It isn't elitism. Actors are in a different position because they are working as part of a crew in which SOP is that there are other professionals hired to do precisely those checks. To use an admittedly imperfect analogy: parents are presumptively responsible for caring for their children. But we consider it acceptable for parents to hire a babysitter who assumes that responsibility for a period of time. In fact, in hiring a babysitter for the three hours that they are going to be out, the parents are fulfilling their obligation to care of the children for that period. Similarly, the way an actor fulfils the responsibility to make sure a gun isn't loaded is to hire someone else to check the gun.

Now, if it is true that AB was also in violation of widely observed industry standards that he should have known, he may still be liable. But it seems clear to me that he isn't primarily to blame, and hard for me to imagine that this rises to criminal culpability.

One other thing I'll point out is that it isn't like Baldwin picked up a gun and started randomly practicing his movements. The crew was setting up for this scene. The AD brought him a gun. The cameras were in position. No one else on the set seems to have been perturbed that AB was pointing a gun in the direction of others. No one else cleared the room or took special protective measures, as far as we know. No one said "OMG, Alec, check the gun!" That argues against this being an egregious violation of widely understood practices.

 

[IceIce9]

I haven’t been able to keep up with this thread but in case this hadn’t been posted

‘Rust’ Armorer Allegedly Made Nicolas Cage Storm Off Set After Firing Gun Without Warning



The armorer who handled weapons on the set of the Alec Baldwin film Rust, reportedly received numerous complaints on prior productions and once prompted Nicolas Cageto storm off set, the Wrap reports.

Sources who have previously worked with 24-year-old armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed told the outlet that she received a number of complaints on different sets prior to the accident on the set of Rust that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza. Of particular note, key grip Stu Brumbaugh said that Gutierrez-Reed infuriated crew members and Nicolas Cage on the set of The Old Way, which shot in Montana over the summer.

The armorer allegedly failed to follow basic firearm safety protocols, including the announcement of weapon usage on set. During one particular incident, Brumbaugh said that Cage yelled at her for failing to announce the usage of a weapon for the second time in three days. “Make an announcement, you just blew my eardrums out!” Cage reportedly said before walking off set. Brumbaugh said that after the incident, he told the assistant director that Gutierrez-Reed “needs to be let go.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ww...cage-storm-off-set-firing-gun-without-warning

 

[LaborDayRN]

Hannah Gutierrez told investigators there was no live ammo on set. And she is the head armorer, that is her responsibility.
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ shooting: Investigation focusing on where live rounds came from: LIVE UPDATES

I personally think it's too early to know who brought actual bullets onto the set. LE may know and we can speculate but we really don't know.
I'm pretty sure it's not HG's job to check everyone's pockets and backpacks as they come onto the set.
Like any work place, people talk. I believe there were enough people on the set who knew about the target shooting and will tell LE who brought the live ammunition onto the set. We'll know in time.

 

[10ofRods]

My brother-in-law is a surgeon, he checks all instruments and prep before they begin surgery, I think all surgeons do. Yes, he relies on the nurses to hand him the right instrument but he knows if the wrong instrument is put in his hand and he will not proceed if that happens.
I understand AB is acting, I don’t understand that that the actual actor holding the gun being required to open the gun/being verified the gun was indeed empty in conjunction with the AD/armourer is not part of the safety protocol. Repeating myself, but that is gun safety 101. I personally think it’s a pretty lousy excuse to say somebody does not have the time or the mental space to do one more safety check when they’re handling a deadly fire arm. I hope that changes in the future. The unsafe atmosphere on the set, the way it was allowed to run, cutting corners to save money, all contributed to this senseless death and as one of the producers, Alec will be liable for that. MOO

Here is what one propmaster says is the common practice:

Even pellet guns are governed by strict protocols – checked not only by the prop department but the assistant directors and any actor handling it. “There’s a whole chain and process and protocol, it sounds like was not followed or not followed properly,” said the props master regarding the Rust accident.
‘Totally preventable and shocking’: props masters talk on-set shootings
In medical malpractice, juries are often instructed to listen to expert testimony about the "community standards" for a particular procedure or drug....same with other kinds of liability cases. Will be interesting to watch this unfold (although we may never know what deals are struck outside of court...

 

[jjenny]

It doesn't matter what the article says. Clearly they got it wrong since it's not stated in the affidavit.

"“During the course of filming, Hannah advised she handed the gun to Alec Baldwin a couple times, and also handed it to (assistant director) David Halls,” the affidavit says. When asked by an investigator “about live ammo on set, Hannah responded no live ammo is ever kept on set.”"
‘Rust’ armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed claims no live ammo is ever kept on the movie’s set, affidavit says (yahoo.com)

 

[jjenny]

I personally think it's too early to know who brought actual bullets onto the set. LE may know and we can speculate but we really don't know.
I'm pretty sure it's not HG's job to check everyone's pockets and backpacks as they come onto the set. Like any work place, people talk. I believe there were enough people on the set who knew about the target shooting and will tell LE who brought the live ammunition onto the set. We'll know in time.

But it's her job to check what's in the gun. And if she did that, live bullet wouldn't have been in the gun given to Baldwin.

 

[10ofRods]

I personally think it's too early to know who brought actual bullets onto the set. LE may know and we can speculate but we really don't know.
I'm pretty sure it's not HG's job to check everyone's pockets and backpacks as they come onto the set. Like any work place, people talk. I believe there were enough people on the set who knew about the target shooting and will tell LE who brought the live ammunition onto the set. We'll know in time.

That's why they sent all of the ammo to the FBI. They will figure out if it was more than one type of live ammo and where it was likely purchased. There could even be finger prints on some of the casings or boxes.

I believe it was said that live ammo was stored in boxes right next to blanks, which will be another liability issue (and that's the fault of the armourer but that person was hired by someone...who made also find him/herself in the chain of liability).