ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[Karo]

Wondering, what does "remand" mean? This word is not used in US courts...TIA

in custody/prison awaiting bail/trial.

 

[Mothergoose]

During uni, i undertook a psych/communication subject in which i learnt the basics of body language and facial expressions, and it piqued my interests so much, that i took a course based on the Paul Ekman micro-expression system.

Whilst i am certainly not a professional in this particular field (it takes many years of experience to get even close to the level of Paul Ekman), i feel i have a good grasp on reading facial expressions. However, this is still all IMO:

Anyway, i have analysed the initial interview with the main suspect et al. but i do not feel comfortable posting my opinion about it here, due to sub-judice, but i DO feel OK with analysing these photos, as they are fairly neutral.

In the top photo, can you see how his eyebrows are raised, but drawn in, in the middle? His upper eyelids are also raised, and his lower eyelids are tense. These are classic signs of fear. His mouth is fairly neutral, and i cannot make a determination on this, but i'm sure a more experienced 'expression-reader' would be able to see something here. Pure fear, IMO.

In the bottom pic, His eyebrows are raised, slightly drawn in to the middle. His eyes are wide, but his eyelids are more relaxed. These eyes definitely show surprise! His mouth, see how the corners are ever so slightly tense and pulled back? This is fear.
These expressions could be displayed by both the innocent or the guilty, but that is precisely why i feel comfortable posting this.

:cheers:

This is really interesting...thank you.I have looked at this photo and just couldn't define his expression for the life of me. I think you're spot on.

 

[jubillee]

During uni, i undertook a psych/communication subject in which i learnt the basics of body language and facial expressions, and it piqued my interests so much, that i took a course based on the Paul Ekman micro-expression system.

Whilst i am certainly not a professional in this particular field (it takes many years of experience to get even close to the level of Paul Ekman), i feel i have a good grasp on reading facial expressions. However, this is still all IMO:

Anyway, i have analysed the initial interview with the main suspect et al. but i do not feel comfortable posting my opinion about it here, due to sub-judice, but i DO feel OK with analysing these photos, as they are fairly neutral.

In the top photo, can you see how his eyebrows are raised, but drawn in, in the middle? His upper eyelids are also raised, and his lower eyelids are tense. These are classic signs of fear. His mouth is fairly neutral, and i cannot make a determination on this, but i'm sure a more experienced 'expression-reader' would be able to see something here. Pure fear, IMO.

In the bottom pic, His eyebrows are raised, slightly drawn in to the middle. His eyes are wide, but his eyelids are more relaxed. These eyes definitely show surprise! His mouth, see how the corners are ever so slightly tense and pulled back? This is fear.
These expressions could be displayed by both the innocent or the guilty, but that is precisely why i feel comfortable posting this.

:cheers:

Um aren't they 2 different people though:floorlaugh:

 

[CaseClosed]

I'm certain that his legal advice would be to never say anything in his own defence. His thought processes will not be represented in the defence his legal team gives him. It will all be tactical. In my opinion, from watching fictional law shows since the 80s, and following real court cases.

Yes, agreed. I think it was Hawkins who said he will probably not take the stand and never speak.

 

[Mothergoose]

I question the appropriateness of anyone releasing the children's drawings of their missing mum. Drawings like these deserve the same respect as children's private conversations with adults they trust.

So very true.....but the children may have requested it as their way of helping, as they just wanted mummy to come home. I suggest....Maybe if mummy sees this she will come home. Poor litttle souls. MOO

 

[Watsonian Institute]

May be some comments on Ch10 tonite re these procedural issues.

I saw those interviews but unfortunately they only aired a couple of sentences from each of the academics commenting on the case. One was from UQ and the other was from QUT. A frequent complaint I hear about the media is that you can do a lengthy interview and provide all sorts of relevant information but then it's edited down to a couple of phrases due to time constraints. It would be great if television reporters could upload all the full interviews to their websites after the broadcast.

This is one reason I rarely do media interviews these days. The editorial decisions, regardless of what motivates them, can lead to misconceptions.

When you say that, factfinda, I immediately think of interviews like the raw 7.30 interviews on the ABC. They're great to watch.

But, the only problem with uploading interviews - which I'm sure you agree with, since you seem to have a lot of media knowledge! - is that not all sources give relevent information, and interviewing them can be quite difficult, even if you use every technique in the book.

I'm guessing you already know this, so this is for the benefit on non-media people: Sometimes a source will ramble on and it's quite difficult to keep them on track. It's because sometimes people find themselves or their area of work fascinating to talk about, and forget they have to tailor what they're saying to what they're actually being asked. :noooo: Also, obviously, some sources actually seek out the media to gain profile, and that can also be difficult for a journalist in terms of getting relevant information.

In my experience, often only small grabs (bits of an interview) are used because the source hasn't quite got to the point. A journalist always selects the best grabs for their story, and sometimes the best just isn't great (which means the rest of what they had to choose from is sometimes even worse).

It can be for a number of other reasons, however, such as ruined vision or audio, or lack of time in production, or just that another story that has more news value bumps it down the bulletin or shortens the time available for it.

And IMO I shudder to think of the hours of mind-numbing footage you'd have to sit through if all these raw interviews were posted online.


Cheers

 

[CaseClosed]

Perhaps he used the financial advisor to help him with his money woes and he listened to ABC Talkback radio to hear what people were saying about him?
MOO

But the talk of the female financial advisor rings a bell. I recall a member something a while back on this forum about GBC knowing a female financial advisor. Wouldn't know how to track it back though. Just thought it was interesting.

Yes, someone said that his financial adviser (female) had also been interviewed and I think the poster even said that her office was searched (but not quite sure about this last point).

 

[Straitfan]

Hope the facts are told one day by the POI....He seems (JMO) to be very suicidal...hope they keep a good watch over him....I know if it was me, I would but I truly feel if he has the chance to end it, he would at this point

For the children's sake I hope and pray they feel the strenght of their mom, holding them up and encouraging them to continue with her by their side..

 

[KG1]

Wondering, what does "remand" mean? This word is not used in US courts...TIA

Googled definition of 'remand'. Hope that helps.

re·mand/riˈmand/Verb: Place (a defendant) on bail or in custody, esp. when a trial is adjourned.

Noun: A committal to custody.

More info »Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Um aren't they 2 different people though:floorlaugh:

Yes, they certainly are.
My post was in response to a post by grannie, who put the 2 pictures up because she thought the facial expressions were similar. She was right, to an extent... they do both show fear.
:cheers:

 

[Straitfan]

in custody/prison awaiting bail/trial.

Thank you, we use different words here

 

[YoureNicked]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aden-clay-arrest/story-e6freoof-1226397139787
Following medical examination at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre, Queensland Corrective Services determined Baden-Clay was not fit to enter his 3m x 4m cell and will remain under observation at the medical unit until "at least after the weekend''.

I am interested to know what conditions are like for prisoners in the Medical Unit of Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre? If anyone can describe them, I'd be very appreciative

 

[Straitfan]

in custody/prison awaiting bail/trial.

Kind of a strange word for us Americans... Thank you tho for the explanation!

 

[Nads]

Yes, someone said that his financial adviser (female) had also been interviewed and I think the poster even said that her office was searched (but not quite sure about this last point).

Perhaps the financial advisor advised to get the big insurance policy on A's life?

 

[Mothergoose]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aden-clay-arrest/story-e6freoof-1226397139787
Following medical examination at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre, Queensland Corrective Services determined Baden-Clay was not fit to enter his 3m x 4m cell and will remain under observation at the medical unit until "at least after the weekend''.

I am interested to know what conditions are like for prisoners in the Medical Unit of Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre? If anyone can describe them, I'd be very appreciative

In reference to your link I think these words definitely need to be taken on board. IMO

Queensland University of Technology law lecturer Peter Black cautioned the community about online commentary before a court hearing.

"There certainly is a very real risk with social media and some of the comments that get posted . . . particularly if damning or critical towards a person whose been charged with an offence, could potentially make it difficult for that person to receive a fair trial,'' he said.

"And the pre-trial publicity could be such that a permanent stay of indictment would have to be ordered.''

 

[Nads]

Kind of a strange word for us Americans... Thank you tho for the explanation!

What is the American term for it? Do you say remanded in custody at all?

 

[Fuskier]

Can I tell you there is still a divided camp out here. Many many people either don't believe or don't want to believe this inevitability. People are in shock that this has happened in our community and that seemingly GBC has carried on for 8 weeks as though nothing has happened. I don't want to believe it but I don't see any other explanation of what's happened that is remotely plausible.

This is very understandable. In part, it could be about shock and denial i.e. 'I just don't believe the he could have done that" type thing. This is shocking, etc. Many in the local community could probably be shocked which explains their reaction presently. After all they only came into contact with his alleged 'public' persona, not his 'private' persona. Just some thoughts, personal opinion, not fact.

 

[Straitfan]

Dont think bail is going to be an option in this case..We have, sadly many sick cases like this in the US....it never makes sense know matter what...sad

 

[plentyofnous]

Hope the facts are told one day by the POI....He seems (JMO) to be very suicidal...hope they keep a good watch over him....I know if it was me, I would but I truly feel if he has the chance to end it, he would at this point

For the children's sake I hope and pray they feel the strenght of their mom, holding them up and encouraging them to continue with her by their side..

Most first time prisoners display cold unemotional demeanor until they make themselves comfortable with their surroundings, I think he will snap out of his current mood and bounce back after his legal team have the chance to chat with him. I think he is a good chance of securing bail , depending on the evidence of the QPD, based on the recent Western Aust case which is still to be determined, ie if the evidence is primarily circumstantial

 

[CaseClosed]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aden-clay-arrest/story-e6freoof-1226397139787
Following medical examination at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre, Queensland Corrective Services determined Baden-Clay was not fit to enter his 3m x 4m cell and will remain under observation at the medical unit until "at least after the weekend''.

I am interested to know what conditions are like for prisoners in the Medical Unit of Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre? If anyone can describe them, I'd be very appreciative

Link to some photos of Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre:

http://ipswich-news.whereilive.com.au/photos/gallery/tour-of-arthur-gorrie-correctional-centre/

A poster also gave a better link yesterday, but can't find it right now.