ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[Bayside]

IMO he is not playing insanity card, I think what he is displaying is fairly normal for a guy entering prison on a murder charge

Yeah I think that pic of him arrested shows the real him without those silly facial expressions he pulls.

He looks sh@t scared to me, as he should be.

 

[plentyofnous]

Yes, of course it would be impossible if he takes off. The Dickies are the maternal grandparents (the kids no longer have their mother) and the Court would see it as beneficial, IMO, if the kids maintained contact with the family of their deceased mother. All just my humble opinion.

Of course I agree a relationship with the Dickies would be beneficial, in fact nearly disgustingly horrible if it didn t occur, that doesn t mean it will happen if he is acquitted and the children are subjected to interrogation and court appearances

 

[Nads]

Even the parent in jail has lots of rights regarding the children. There was a case on the radio I heard of a mother who is in jail in the US who is stopping her kid or kids, can't remember, and their dad returning home to Australia as she wants them to stay there so they can visit her. So their lives are on hold for a very long time.

 

[plentyofnous]

Thank you for your posts caseclosed, you IMO portray a person that hovers between what is morally right and what exists in Law, and IMO argue with yourself which is right, IMO they both are , its just that we will not be the decision makers, the Court will be
Thank you once again, i truly respect you opinion and value your posts as a check on my own thoughts in this tragic event

 

[Keentoknow]

The punishment for a convicted person who is sentenced to a term of imprisonment, whether it be a specified time or life, is the DEPRIVATION OF THEIR LIBERTY. This is what the judge passes as an imprisonment term. There is no direction to deprive them of anything else. Their loss of liberty is managed by the prisons and there are legislative guidelines and rules and rights of incarcerated persons all enshrined in legislation. There is no law in Australia that allows prisoners to be treated inhumanely, and there is no law in Australia to prevent prisoners from having basic human rights. How that is tempered and managed is up to the prisons and corrections authorities, overseen by the various State and Territory governments.

100% correct....Prisoners are in prison as punishment. Not for punishment.

The prison system is based on the fact that they TRY to send out a better person that what came in....Most lifers spend time reinventing themselves as model prisoners.

If you kick bums and take names every day your chances of causing a riot are great.
Prisons can be very volatile. eg Bathurst prison was a burnt to the ground. When it was rebuit Unit Management was introduced. This was a new type thinking as to management of prisoners.

Sure is a better system for staff and prisoners.

 

[Mothergoose]

Wow you believe GBC would be so spiteful as to stop his children seeing their grandparents.?
He certainly wouldn't have his children's welfare at heart to do that.

I believe this murder was an act of extreme spontaneous anger and that if he had stopped to think of his children he would have stopped himself from whatever he supposedly did to her to cause her death. He wasn't thinking of them for that moment in time. I believe he loves his children very much and would wish only what is best for them. If he is acquitted it will be hard enough to make life normal for them as a family and this doubt of guilt/innocent will be forever be with him wherever he goes and whatever he does til the day he dies.He will need the help of both grandparents to raise those girls .IMO

 

[CaseClosed]

Good point, plentyofnous. Prisons are not just for incarceration; they're for rehabilitation. In fact, the best outcome a community should hope for is rehabilitation, rather than just someone being punished. Education is one of the best ways to help people change their perspective on the world, and I personally don't believe in medieval-style, draconian prisons because I don't believe that model best serves the community. In my opinion, if prisons are meant to be only for "punishment", this is akin to making a statement that no one is redeemable, and that every individual who makes a mistake in their life (of whatever magnitude) should not be given the chance to change their behaviour or their outlook on life, even if that does mean their liberty is still taken away from them (if that is the sentence handed down by the court). I am a firm believer in the idea that a nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest and most vulnerable members. I would also add "and its most despised" to this.

If the law changes to reflect community standards, so too should the way we treat people who are incarcerated. Don't forget: people were imprisoned in the past for things that are not considered illegal today. I think it's also helpful to remember that not everyone in prison is there because of violent crime. This is a link to statistics of prisoners in Australia, and it contains plenty of interesting information: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4517.0

Cheers

I wonder if your views would be different if you were a relative/parent/child of a murder or manslaughter victim. The victim no longer has any right to anything and neither has the family. Or what about victims of serious assaults, who are now disfigured for having been set on fire, or have been left in a coma and with brain damage? Or when it comes to white collar crimes like embezzlement, when retirees have lost all their super investments? I'm sorry, but these criminals should have no rights at all. IMO.

 

[Keentoknow]

Even the parent in jail has lots of rights regarding the children. There was a case on the radio I heard of a mother who is in jail in the US who is stopping her kid or kids, can't remember, and their dad returning home to Australia as she wants them to stay there so they can visit her. So their lives are on hold for a very long time.

Can go both ways..
Max Sica is not allowed to have his children visit him...Check his MO on google and you will see why.

 

[Spotted Reptile]

IMO the truth is the truth, not a dilemma. The truth is what happened.

Yes it is. But respectfully, that is an adult view of the situation. Kids don't have that perspective on truth - they will do and say anything to protect their parents if they are emotionally motivated to do so. Imagine a kid feeling that what they say could send their daddy to jail - regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, most children I think would be traumatised by that outcome. I could be totally wrong, but I imagine that the kids still love their father. They are old enough to know that daddy is in a bad situation, and if the police want them to describe how mummy got hurt, what they say could send their daddy away forever.

If you put them on the stand, you force them to either a) lie, which they are told is bad, or b) tell the truth, but possibly send daddy to jail, which is also bad. A child is just not mature enough to deal with the impossible situation in which they find themselves IMO, and the emotional fallout could be devastating.

 

[CaseClosed]

Thank you for your posts caseclosed, you IMO portray a person that hovers between what is morally right and what exists in Law, and IMO argue with yourself which is right, IMO they both are , its just that we will not be the decision makers, the Court will be
Thank you once again, i truly respect you opinion and value your posts as a check on my own thoughts in this tragic event

You're welcome. I am someone who despises unfairness, that's all.

 

[plentyofnous]

I wonder if your views would be different if you were a relative/parent/child of a murder or manslaughter victim. The victim no longer has any right to anything and neither has the family. Or what about victims of serious assaults, who are now disfigured for having been set on fire, or have been left in a coma and with brain damage? Or when it comes to white collar crimes like embezzlement, when retirees have lost all their super investments? I'm sorry, but these criminals should have no rights at all. IMO.

Its not that I agree with it, it is what exists, we need to invite the premier and Prime Minister and 100 s of years of precedent into here if we are going to debate that

 

[spratsmum]

I don't really think that GBC is a candidate for the rehabilitation element of prison life. He reminds very much of a few of his fellow inmates in Arthur Gorrie - Jayet Patel and Gordon Nuttall, none of them seem to have guilt or remorse.

I have been in the Boggo road prison about 20 years ago to visit an employee who was incarcerated there at the time. This man who was found of guilty of a "party rape" was ushered into a room like something out of Dickens, the gates clanging behind me, did not let me forget for a moment where I was. The fun part was though, the prison guard indicated to me where a buzzer was if I needed help, but he placed the inmate closer to it than me. I felt a real atmosphere of resignation and futility and I was only in the prison about 2 hours.

I don't know what the jail experience will be like for GBC - but he seems able to shield himself, this may of course lead to him breaking down and he can't keep it up for ever, but I think he will feel that he is better than the other men in there and maintain a distance.

His silence is not going to help him in anyway, you can't defend your innocence without telling your story. If he keeps the silence up, he will alienate others, even those helping him, and keep digging a larger hole for himself.

 

[Liadan]

I believe this murder was an act of extreme spontaneous anger and that if he had stopped to think of his children he would have stopped himself from whatever he supposedly did to her to cause her death. He wasn't thinking of them for that moment in time. I believe he loves his children very much and would wish only what is best for them. If he is acquitted it will be hard enough to make life normal for them as a family and this doubt of guilt/innocent will be forever be with him wherever he goes and whatever he does til the day he dies.He will need the help of both grandparents to raise those girls .IMO

I humbly disagree Mothergoose. I think GBC got to the point where he believed himself to be desrving of more privileges in life and was the more bankable person in the relationship and that his marriage was wearing him down. Yes he loved to have the family but needed confirmation of his greatness from his mistresses this clients his superiors at work. ABC could no longer fill that role so she was immaterial. Yes meant something to the kids but he had moved on to more important things in his life. JMHO

 

[Nads]

Yes it is. But respectfully, that is an adult view of the situation. Kids don't have that perspective on truth - they will do and say anything to protect their parents if they are emotionally motivated to do so. Imagine a kid feeling that what they say could send their daddy to jail - regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, most children I think would be traumatised by that outcome. I could be totally wrong, but I imagine that the kids still love their father. They are old enough to know that daddy is in a bad situation, and if the police want them to describe how mummy got hurt, what they say could send their daddy away forever.

If you put them on the stand, you force them to either a) lie, which they are told is bad, or b) tell the truth, but possibly send daddy to jail, which is also bad. A child is just not mature enough to deal with the impossible situation in which they find themselves IMO, and the emotional fallout could be devastating.

I repeat, I am not talking about putting a child on the witness stand. I would never ever be in favour of that!! Just a private interview with what I would insist be a child psychologist. With the close relative watching on closed circuit tv, with the ability to stop the interview.

 

[Mothergoose]

IMO the truth is the truth, not a dilemma. The truth is what happened.

The dilemma is that they would be torn by being asked to testify.It's not a dilemma that "the truth is the truth" ....that's a given ....with respect. IMO

 

[plentyofnous]

I don't really think that GBC is a candidate for the rehabilitation element of prison life. He reminds very much of a few of his fellow inmates in Arthur Gorrie - Jayet Patel and Gordon Nuttall, none of them seem to have guilt or remorse.

I have been in the Boggo road prison about 20 years ago to visit an employee who was incarcerated there at the time. This man who was found of guilty of a "party rape" was ushered into a room like something out of Dickens, the gates clanging behind me, did not let me forget for a moment where I was. The fun part was though, the prison guard indicated to me where a buzzer was if I needed help, but he placed the inmate closer to it than me. I felt a real atmosphere of resignation and futility and I was only in the prison about 2 hours.

I don't know what the jail experience will be like for GBC - but he seems able to shield himself, this may of course lead to him breaking down and he can't keep it up for ever, but I think he will feel that he is better than the other men in there and maintain a distance.

His silence is not going to help him in anyway, you can't defend your innocence without telling your story. If he keeps the silence up, he will alienate others, even those helping him, and keep digging a larger hole for himself.

You will find one of the golden rules in prison is never discuss your case or any others, the first period of time is to learn the word respect and prison yard etiquette as quickly as possible, whether its a murderer or a fine defaulter and display no emotions, that's if you want to survive . Of course , in remand everyone is innocent

 

[spratsmum]

I believe this murder was an act of extreme spontaneous anger and that if he had stopped to think of his children he would have stopped himself from whatever he supposedly did to her to cause her death. He wasn't thinking of them for that moment in time. I believe he loves his children very much and would wish only what is best for them. If he is acquitted it will be hard enough to make life normal for them as a family and this doubt of guilt/innocent will be forever be with him wherever he goes and whatever he does til the day he dies.He will need the help of both grandparents to raise those girls .IMO

I thought it was a situation that got out of hand at first as well.

Now though I don't think GBC is capable of anything spontaneous. I think he is a calculating, cold individual. Whatever has happened (and I don't mean in the last few weeks) has caused him to be devoid of feeling. To be able to maintain your silence and carry on as normal in the face of public opinion in the last weeks, I think shows someone who is very controlled, and those sorts of people don't just "loose it "

 

[plentyofnous]

I don't really think that GBC is a candidate for the rehabilitation element of prison life. He reminds very much of a few of his fellow inmates in Arthur Gorrie - Jayet Patel and Gordon Nuttall, none of them seem to have guilt or remorse.

I have been in the Boggo road prison about 20 years ago to visit an employee who was incarcerated there at the time. This man who was found of guilty of a "party rape" was ushered into a room like something out of Dickens, the gates clanging behind me, did not let me forget for a moment where I was. The fun part was though, the prison guard indicated to me where a buzzer was if I needed help, but he placed the inmate closer to it than me. I felt a real atmosphere of resignation and futility and I was only in the prison about 2 hours.

I don't know what the jail experience will be like for GBC - but he seems able to shield himself, this may of course lead to him breaking down and he can't keep it up for ever, but I think he will feel that he is better than the other men in there and maintain a distance.

His silence is not going to help him in anyway, you can't defend your innocence without telling your story. If he keeps the silence up, he will alienate others, even those helping him, and keep digging a larger hole for himself.

The point is it does nt matter whether he is a good candidate or not, thats just the way he will be treated. IMO he would be very high on the list of being able to rehabilitate, compared to others who stroll around in his yard

 

[Spotted Reptile]

I repeat, I am not talking about putting a child on the witness stand. I would never ever be in favour of that!! Just a private interview with what I would insist be a child psychologist. With the close relative watching on closed circuit tv, with the ability to stop the interview.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Thanks for clarifying. Certainly, a child psychologist would know what questions to ask and in a way which would always have the child's welfare at heart. I'm not sure if this is a procedure which is sanctioned here, but it would be a better way of extracting information without compromising the child's love for either parent. It would take a very skilled and experienced psychologist.

Don't know of the admissibility of such an interview, though?

 

[spratsmum]

You will find one of the golden rules in prison is never discuss your case or any others, the first period of time is to learn the word respect and prison yard etiquette as quickly as possible, whether its a murderer or a fine defaulter and display no emotions, that's if you want to survive . Of course , in remand everyone is innocent

thank you plentyofnous, but I am hoping to never find out the golden rules of prison!!