ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

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I have always thought that strangulation would have been hard to prove given the state of the body when found . It was stated in the CM that decomposition was advanced.(I just hate saying that) After 10 days in those elements I have always thought that if murder was evident at the time Allison was found it would be more like a puncture wound of some kind or an unusual fracture (that couldn't be the result of a fall) which I suppose could happen in strangulation. IMO

I totally agree and have posted similar on here. I posted a link regarding this actually. Given the amount of decomp, something like stangulation I believe would be very hard to determine straight away. And the unusal fracture, I don't think would be something thery would determine without autopsy. From what has been reported police knew cause of death it seems at Kholo creek when her body was discovered and police attended the scene.(although this information has been deliberately kept quiet from the public for the sake of the case.). To me something visible like that I agree would likely be something like stab wounds or gunshot wounds..(I tend to think more likely stabbing, but just a guess).. This would probably also tie in with the blood found in the car.

MOO
 
That's so sad Jillie, about the asthma stuff.....I have it too....and sadly it would have the same effect. I wonder though, because an asthma attack is bought on by the swelling of the bronchials.....They may not be swollen if it was suffocation. Though I am no expert.

Thats just freaked me right out....and it saddens me that someone said such mallarkey about using that on you...nasty, nasty person. xx
 
Mmmm ... That all maybe the case and would IMO only have supported a charge of manslaughter. However some of the things I have looked at (all previously posted and the result of searches on what is available in the public domain) plus he charge of 'interfering with a corpse' would suggest something more than a spur of the moment'DV gone wrong'. If it had not been pre-planned the 'after the fact' evidence are much more devious and callous.
All IMOO


I agree with this. To me IF you 'accidentally' cause someones death(I know accident- not great word)..as in you did not intend to kill them. Any leniancy or lesser charges in my mind goes out the window when you take into account the fact that you then go to great lengths to cover up the death and coldy dump the victims body and allow the charade of weeks of searching by emergency personel etc.. MOO (and I know this is all alleged at this time)
 
I found this article at everydayphsycology.com and 'IF' it holds merit, demonstrates to me that more individuals would be capable of murder than I thought. I have known people with some of the personality profiles described
below. Wouldn't have thought them capable of murder though. Shudder. :confused:

Why do people kill?
A Typology of Violent Offenders
At various times, I have been asked to lecture on the topic: why do people kill? Why do they commit murder? How do we explain acts of violence. The following is not an exhaustive explanation. It's a handout I use when I speak about different types of killers and the motivations for different crimes. But it describes many, if not most types of homicide and most acts of violence. It describes most of the killers and most of the violent individuals I have interviewed.

Chronically Aggressive Individuals

Easily frustrated, limited or poor impulse control
Frequently express anger or hostility
Resents authority, defiant with supervisors.
May express hostility through “passive-aggressive” behavior
Believes violence and/or aggression are legitimate responses to various interpersonal problems in life (i.e., if someone provokes you, you fight back)
Although they might never admit it, pleasure or reinforcement is derived from the expression of anger (i.e., it feels good to blow someone off; it makes you feel alive; it gives you a sense of power)
Often display the characteristics of a “stimulus seeker” - they engage in bold, fearless, or reckless behavior and are prone towards substance abuse
Most typically, violence occurs in a situational context: an offense, fight, or disagreement
Sometimes just get carried away in a particular situation (domestic violence, child battering)
Less likely to engage in acts of unexpected “explosive” violence

The Over-Controlled Hostility Type

Rarely display or express anger - they don’t cuss or yell, and may be offended by such
Emotionally rigid and inflexible: appear to be polite, serious, and sober, rarely “loose” or jocular
Cognitively rigid and inflexible: very strict about interpreting rules; usually go for the letter, rather than the spirit of the law
Morally righteous and upstanding: see themselves as “good people”
Often judgmental: see others as “not such good people”
Non-assertive or passive; their passivity causes others to take advantage of them
Anger builds up like in a pressure cooker, before they explode
After the violence, people say that they never expected it, “he always seemed like such a nice guy; he was always so quiet”
The Hurt and Resentful
Feel that people walk on them and that they are never treated fairly
When they are passed over, there is always someone else to blame
Things are easier for everyone else: other people get more and have more advantages.
They do not accept criticism well
In response to reprimands, they develop grudges, which are sometimes deeply held
They are often whiners and complainers, as a matter of attitude
They wallow in their victimization and are psychologically impotent
Violence occurs because they hold grudges and are “impotent” to deal with their anger in other ways

The Traumatized

Aggression occurs in response to a single, massive assault on their identity
Something happens that is potently offensive, absolutely intolerable, and which strips them of all sense of personal power
The essence of their existence (or their manhood) will be destroyed if they do not respond
Violence is predictable & preventable

The Obsessive

Immature and narcissistic individuals who demand or crave attention and affection
Absolutely cannot stand to be deprived of desired gratifications, like a baby who cries because mother removes the breast
When deprived of love, they continue crying: repeated phone calls, following the object of their obsession, etc.
As frustration continues, they escalate: “dead flowers”, punctured tires, suicide gestures
Violence because: “if I can’t have her, nobody can.” ... or: “if she won’t have me, she won’t have anything.”

The Paranoid

Jealous Type: Delusionally believes their lover is unfaithful
Persecuted Type: Delusionally believes that people are out to get him
Typically engage in behaviors which make their paranoid beliefs come true
Delusions may reach the point at which the person is grossly out of contact with reality (may be insane).

The Insane

Rare: does not understand the nature and quality of their actions.
More typical: fundamental misperceptions of reality, incapable of rational behavior, delusional beliefs deprive them of the ability to know that their behavior is wrong, beliefs and perceptions are incongruent with reality.
Twisted, psychotic beliefs about what is right, what is wrong, and what is necessary.

The Just Plain Bad & Angry

A combination of most of the above (except for insane): angry, hostile, jealous, resentful, impotent, and disturbed individuals, who are socially isolated, socially inadequate, and who feel worthless
May be seeking attention
May be seeking revenge

PAUL G. MATTIUZZI, PH.D.
 
I wonder if the loudest noise created by the NIgelaine's was by them wanting to see GBC that first night in jail.......There didnt appear to be any care when Allison went missing, or they had found out she was dead.....They just wanted "normality" it seems. But, their son goes in....and they GROWL. :(

I have said that I feel so darn sorry for them, if they had no involvement.....But the above, was how it was.....and irrespective of his guilt.....they were very naughty to behave in such a manner, when they showed no due care for Allison in her darkest/final times.
 
Not necessarily manslaughter. The manner in which she was killed also comes into play when determining murder or manslaughter. The second charge IMO relates to moving the body and not something more sinister. IMO.

I agree, that is what I believe the interference charge relates to moving the body. At least I really hope so. Moving a body to another location like that, would come under the charge of interferring with a corpse to my knowledge. I know the wording conjures up some other thoughts, but in this case I believe and as I said hope that in this case it simply means moving the body from the place of the murder to another location.
 
Yep....Isnt it funny though, that he is the one needing 24 hour medical watch supposedly....Hmmmmm. Not degrading depression, because I think at times we all can suffer from a bit of it to varying degrees....But, yep, she was the one with it, but he is the one needing help for it.....How ironic....What a tool.

and please, I dont need the depression bandwagon jumping on me. But when you are digressing that your wife has it over the media, then are the very one needing support for it, one can only call the guy hypocritical.

It is very ironic that he is a bit depressed now himself, but I am sure its only a little bit and he will be fine.
 
Since I have some very good sources I am happy to pass on some things I have heard now an arrest has been made.

I agree with you re Gerard being a suspect from day one and also re the fights on both of those nights which were physical.

I also agree about the rental properties being searched but not in the first few days. The details about Gerard and his then current affair partners date locations came out after the interview with them.

The fights were fueled by serious financial problems, more than just having a rough patch in business more along the lines of some shady things going on. I believe the affair was not the motive but obviously would not help the situation.

As I am not verified and do not intend to be this is just rumour so treat it as such, take it with a grain of salt. Most of it people here have already figured out for themself.

I think COD will leak out with the bail hearing coming up so by the end of the week everyone should know how this beautiful woman died. I do not think it will be the woops I pushed her and she bumped her head and didnt wake up scenario.
Re the shady dealings, I believe similar, but just my belief. I think many of us have heard things we cannot verify, but perhaps once more details emerge, some of those things will be able to be verified and things may indeed start to fall into place.. I am starting to get a sick feeling of what actually went down. To me I feel like there was more to it than an escalation of an arguement... And if this was the case the fact Allison was then just discarded in the manner she was and the 'charade' that has gone on since if those alleged with the crime are guilty... I just find it hard to comprehend someone doing that. MOO
 
I found this article at everydayphsycology.com and 'IF' it holds merit, demonstrates to me that more individuals would be capable of murder than I thought. I have known people with some of the personality profiles described
below. Wouldn't have thought them capable of murder though. Shudder. :confused:

Why do people kill?
A Typology of Violent Offenders
At various times, I have been asked to lecture on the topic: why do people kill? Why do they commit murder? How do we explain acts of violence. The following is not an exhaustive explanation. It's a handout I use when I speak about different types of killers and the motivations for different crimes. But it describes many, if not most types of homicide and most acts of violence. It describes most of the killers and most of the violent individuals I have interviewed.

Chronically Aggressive Individuals

Easily frustrated, limited or poor impulse control
Frequently express anger or hostility
Resents authority, defiant with supervisors.
May express hostility through “passive-aggressive” behavior
Believes violence and/or aggression are legitimate responses to various interpersonal problems in life (i.e., if someone provokes you, you fight back)
Although they might never admit it, pleasure or reinforcement is derived from the expression of anger (i.e., it feels good to blow someone off; it makes you feel alive; it gives you a sense of power)
Often display the characteristics of a “stimulus seeker” - they engage in bold, fearless, or reckless behavior and are prone towards substance abuse
Most typically, violence occurs in a situational context: an offense, fight, or disagreement
Sometimes just get carried away in a particular situation (domestic violence, child battering)
Less likely to engage in acts of unexpected “explosive” violence

The Over-Controlled Hostility Type

Rarely display or express anger - they don’t cuss or yell, and may be offended by such
Emotionally rigid and inflexible: appear to be polite, serious, and sober, rarely “loose” or jocular
Cognitively rigid and inflexible: very strict about interpreting rules; usually go for the letter, rather than the spirit of the law
Morally righteous and upstanding: see themselves as “good people”
Often judgmental: see others as “not such good people”
Non-assertive or passive; their passivity causes others to take advantage of them
Anger builds up like in a pressure cooker, before they explode
After the violence, people say that they never expected it, “he always seemed like such a nice guy; he was always so quiet”
The Hurt and Resentful
Feel that people walk on them and that they are never treated fairly
When they are passed over, there is always someone else to blame
Things are easier for everyone else: other people get more and have more advantages.
They do not accept criticism well
In response to reprimands, they develop grudges, which are sometimes deeply held
They are often whiners and complainers, as a matter of attitude
They wallow in their victimization and are psychologically impotent
Violence occurs because they hold grudges and are “impotent” to deal with their anger in other ways

The Traumatized

Aggression occurs in response to a single, massive assault on their identity
Something happens that is potently offensive, absolutely intolerable, and which strips them of all sense of personal power
The essence of their existence (or their manhood) will be destroyed if they do not respond
Violence is predictable & preventable

The Obsessive

Immature and narcissistic individuals who demand or crave attention and affection
Absolutely cannot stand to be deprived of desired gratifications, like a baby who cries because mother removes the breast
When deprived of love, they continue crying: repeated phone calls, following the object of their obsession, etc.
As frustration continues, they escalate: “dead flowers”, punctured tires, suicide gestures
Violence because: “if I can’t have her, nobody can.” ... or: “if she won’t have me, she won’t have anything.”

The Paranoid

Jealous Type: Delusionally believes their lover is unfaithful
Persecuted Type: Delusionally believes that people are out to get him
Typically engage in behaviors which make their paranoid beliefs come true
Delusions may reach the point at which the person is grossly out of contact with reality (may be insane).

The Insane

Rare: does not understand the nature and quality of their actions.
More typical: fundamental misperceptions of reality, incapable of rational behavior, delusional beliefs deprive them of the ability to know that their behavior is wrong, beliefs and perceptions are incongruent with reality.
Twisted, psychotic beliefs about what is right, what is wrong, and what is necessary.

The Just Plain Bad & Angry

A combination of most of the above (except for insane): angry, hostile, jealous, resentful, impotent, and disturbed individuals, who are socially isolated, socially inadequate, and who feel worthless
May be seeking attention
May be seeking revenge

PAUL G. MATTIUZZI, PH.D.

If you know someone with the potential for those tendencies, like your own child, what can people do to prevent or minimise the risk of them eventually commiting murder............or is that impossible?
 
I really think she would dump his a$$ but who knows women do strange things in the name of "love". He might dump her when he founds out what she has given the police.

I am thinking his dance card might be full for a while anyway.

BBM.

That's interesting Bayside. So no love lost then? TM dumps on GBC, lawyers up, receives immunity and the wheels of justice for Allison slowly begin to roll. It would be fascinating to know exactly what TM told the police. Was it about shady business deals, pre-meditated murder or both. Unfortunately we may never be privy to what TM divulged.

MOO.
 
BBM.

That's interesting Bayside. So no love lost then? TM dumps on GBC, lawyers up, receives immunity and the wheels of justice for Allison slowly begin to roll. It would be fascinating to know exactly what TM told the police. Was it about shady business deals, pre-meditated murder or both. Unfortunately we may never be privy to what TM divulged.

MOO.

If this is the case and something that helped police to make an arrest of Allisons killer (alleged). Then I am glad to see maybe someone has some conscience in them.
 
Not true Bay...one of them did very helpfully tell everyone that Allison suffered from depression...... and for that we should be grateful.

That is so right!!

Ps Greg you were spot on with the OW whereabouts!!!
 
I wonder if the loudest noise created by the NIgelaine's was by them wanting to see GBC that first night in jail.......There didnt appear to be any care when Allison went missing, or they had found out she was dead.....They just wanted "normality" it seems. But, their son goes in....and they GROWL. :(

I have said that I feel so darn sorry for them, if they had no involvement.....But the above, was how it was.....and irrespective of his guilt.....they were very naughty to behave in such a manner, when they showed no due care for Allison in her darkest/final times.

All we know about them is what media have told/showed us. They are very clearly biased towards the Dickies, so of course they want the BCs to look as "bad" as possible. None of us know how they reacted to Allisons disappearance/murder.
 
Found this at the NSW Judicial Commission site:

Circumstances surrounding the offence

The mutilation of the deceased’s body can be taken into account as an aggravating factor in assessing the seriousness of the offence: R v Knight (2006) 164 A Crim R 126 at [28]–[29]; R v Yeo [2003] NSWSC 315 at [36]; R v England (1999) 106 A Crim R 99 at [35], [37], [41].

Full link here Murder - Judicial Commission of NSW

The example they show bears no relation to the circumstances we are discussing, but it may indicate that the prosecutors feel GBC's offence is worse than murder alone (if anything could be worse than that) because he interfered with her body in some way. I really believe the way this charge is stated, and the fact that it was listed as a separate charge, means he did more than just move or disturb her body. God I hope not, but I can't see why they would add this charge otherwise.
 
BBM.

That's interesting Bayside. So no love lost then? TM dumps on GBC, lawyers up, receives immunity and the wheels of justice for Allison slowly begin to roll. It would be fascinating to know exactly what TM told the police. Was it about shady business deals, pre-meditated murder or both. Unfortunately we may never be privy to what TM divulged.

MOO.

I wondered if maybe she had no involvement in the murder at all.....As it seemed he had a new girl (possibly this lady in NSW that he met at the Century 21 shindig).

I wondered if maybe during his time with TM, he had dropped comments like "We should kill her" "It would be good if we could get rid of her" and TM thought "WTF...". Then now, she was able to tell police that he was insinuating this during their relationship.
 
If you know someone with the potential for those tendencies, like your own child, what can people do to prevent or minimise the risk of them eventually commiting murder............or is that impossible?

I would think if I had a child with aggressive tendencies I would seek to have the problem addressed by professionals. I have a 43 year old Bi-Polar son. My ex (his father) was also Bi-polar but never diagnosed.My ex's mother was in a mental institution (in the 40's and 50's)for most of her adult life.The condition was not labeled back then,,,,she was just insane (so sad). My ex was extremely violent ,his mother tried to kill his father twice. My son though Bi-Polar has never shown a tendency to violence so I am blessed . He is a gentle and kind soul and very intelligent. When my son showed his first signs of this illness I sought help for him immediately. He was 23 so have dealt with this for some time. I think being proactive is the key. Find out what is causing the behavior as early as you can.Chemical imbalances in the brain can cause several unusual/strange/odd behaviors as in manic depression /bi-polar conditions etc. There are a myriad of meds available to stabilise these conditions but it can be difficult to diagnose and eventually find the right combination of meds to do the job.If your child is the one you are worried about your GP should be able to point you in the right direction re what action to take I would hope.Through my sons experience I have many contacts having been involved in his rehabilitation for over 20 years when he has been unwell. If you are asking beause you know someone who is unwell and need some input send me a PM. I hope this helps. :(
 
If you know someone with the potential for those tendencies, like your own child, what can people do to prevent or minimise the risk of them eventually commiting murder............or is that impossible?

As a parent of a child who has been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (a condition characterised by hypersensitivity to personal slights/insults resulting in a tendency toward 'lashing out', a lack of self-confidence and problems with empathy towards others) I have tried to maintain firm but fair communication with my child (who is now a young adult).

I had to show that I was not afraid of him as he would try to verbally and physically intimidate me, especially during his adolescent years.

He rarely mixes with other people so, in order to stop him from becoming too withdrawn I feel it's important he knows I'm available to talk to if he wants.

Just some of the things I do as a parent of someone who could tip over into violence more easily than most others.
 
Re the shady dealings, I believe similar, but just my belief. I think many of us have heard things we cannot verify, but perhaps once more details emerge, some of those things will be able to be verified and things may indeed start to fall into place.. I am starting to get a sick feeling of what actually went down. To me I feel like there was more to it than an escalation of an arguement... And if this was the case the fact Allison was then just discarded in the manner she was and the 'charade' that has gone on since if those alleged with the crime are guilty... I just find it hard to comprehend someone doing that. MOO

I agree Unfolding. I came off the fence after I went sleuthing into his and his family's financial dealings (so far all on the public record through ASIC etc) and whilst I haven't details of their insurances just seeing some of t he complexities around the financial side made me feel like there was so much more to this than just a DV gone wrong.
All IMOO
 
I wondered if maybe she had no involvement in the murder at all.....As it seemed he had a new girl (possibly this lady in NSW that he met at the Century 21 shindig).

I wondered if maybe during his time with TM, he had dropped comments like "We should kill her" "It would be good if we could get rid of her" and TM thought "WTF...". Then now, she was able to tell police that he was insinuating this during their relationship.

Willough, my initial feeling was that TM had no involvement in Allison's murder. She was GBC's mistress, nothing illegal there, immoral maybe but not illegal. So why was she allegedly interviewed on three separate occasions, once for a period of four hours? She must have had a lot to say or perhaps just took a long time saying it, I really don't know. There has been absolutely nothing further mentioned in MSM about TM since she was outed as GBC's mistress. Would this be part of an immunity deal I wonder?

BBM: Yes, what you say is quite feasible and if some bloke said that to me, I'd be thinking WTF also. :what:
 
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