Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[Kaybug]

I don't believe anything that comes from the Aruba authorities. I'd much rather know what they won't tell.

 

[otto]

There's really not too much to believe or not believe at this point. A jaw bone has been found and it has been sent to the Netherlands Forensic Institute for analysis. A preliminary forensic examination suggests that it's the bone of a female, but confirmation has to come from the NFI. Until then, there's not much to do but wait. It would be generous of the NFI to bump this bone to the top of their priority list, but there does not appear to be any urgency in making the comparison. It could be some time before results are known.

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

Surely they will notify the Holloway family before it is ever released to the public. They need time to absorb this information if it is her before they have to deal with all the press. I hope they will be that decent to them for once.

 

[georger]

There was reference to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as the three musketeers years ago during the initial investigation. Also, in the video with Peter de Vries and Beth, there's a re-enactment of Joran meeting with John Kelly. In the re-enactment, Joran shows up to the meeting with a 3 musketeers bar and a coke. This flashes back when Beth is giving Joran the same thing: coke and 3 musketeers bar. It may be Beth's way of trying to tell Joran that she knows everything that happened when he met with John Kelly, it may be an allusion to Joran and the Kalpoes from five years earlier. Either way, it was lost on Joran.

For the sane mind, yes. For the paranoid mind... only time will tell.
If his attorney surfaces claiming Beth tried to poison him, then ...
The candy bar is in his court. But I understand your position.

 

[otto]

For the sane mind, yes. For the paranoid mind... only time will tell.
If his attorney surfaces claiming Beth tried to poison him, then ...
The candy bar is in his court. But I understand your position.

Joran didn't touch the chocolate bar or the diet coke during the five minutes that Beth spoke to him. At the end of the meeting, Joran picked up the diet coke and asked if he could have it. I think he left the chocolate bar on the director's desk.

 

[georger]

Joran didn't touch the chocolate bar or the diet coke during the five minutes that Beth spoke to him. At the end of the meeting, Joran picked up the diet coke and asked if he could have it. I think he left the chocolate bar on the director's desk.

Nobody in prison turns down a free chocolate bar. You can bride a
rat with that!

 

[otto]

Nobody in prison turns down a free chocolate bar. You can bride a
rat with that!

He doesn't touch either the milky way bar or the coke before the end of the meeting, and then asks if he can take the coke. I don't see him holding a milky way bar wrapped in a piece of paper with a picture of a musketeers bar around it. I also think that because he asked for the coke, he would have asked for the milky way bar if he wanted that too.

I think he left it on the desk.

 

[gitana1]

If the authorities know by now, and they're withholding the information for absolutely no good reason, I'm going to be sick - but not surprised. I'm tired of Aruba's shenanigans, and so angry that the Holloways continue to be treated so poorly. Anyone who has read Beth's book, knows what Aruban authorities have put her through. Enough, already!

What the Aruban authorities have done with this case has been sickening. I feel they acted corruptly and in their own interests, thinking they were protecting tourism. I think they also were used to not having their authority questioned and being able to handle things the way they saw fit with no interference, whether or not they were handling it correctly. Reminds of the mentality at play in the Tonya Craft case, but kind of in reverse.
However, I believe the mainland Dutch authorities will not act in the same manner when it comes to this case and the forensics involved. My mom is from Holland and I know how they work there. They are very serious when it comes to matters like this and very professional, in general. The Netherlands values its reputation too much to make mistakes.
The problems I see lie with the Aruban authorities, the chain of custody of these remains, how they handle witness statements regarding the discovery and what they do with the results from Holland. I don't trust Aruba at all to handle any of that properly, unfortunately.

Dr. Baden has said if they have the dental records, they already know whether it's Natalee or not. They've had the dental records since Tuesday according to Dave Holloway. The Aruban authorities are notorious for releasing pertinent information late Friday or on holiday weekends for obvious reasons. I'm guessing there's a great deal of 'pow wowing' going on on 'One Happy Little Island' about now.


Natalee’s mother released this statement today:

"There is no good answer, whether it is Natalee or whether it isn't. But no answer at all is the most unbearable. We appreciate everyone's loving care and concern and are anxious about the developments."

http://www.foxalabamanews.com/2010/11/natalee-holloways-mother-issues.html

My heart just breaks for Beth Twitty. What an incredible woman and mother. Her love for her child is so apparent.

 

[sherryk]

They can get a rush on DNA/ NG or JVM had quest that stated a few days. I know from Family experience that DNA can determine father of child at lab .. it took 2 days.

Why the dental records if they knew the dna?? I am sure they have the information at this time. The only reason I can think that they are not releasing it is due to they want to try and attempt to look for more evidence or trying to decide what angle to take to charge him. I assume he will not be leaving peru.. they no way are going to let him go.. and in matter of months he is toast in that place as soon as in with general population.

One other theory that was put out there. What if the Jaw bone was placed there? I dont know why that would take place.. but odd that one bone washed up.. more to follow. I always assumed they put her in crab trap and droped her into ocean.. however crab trap cages are metal perhaps in time salt water can deteroriate the wire casing.

If it was not her I think they would of made public.

 

[scandi]

He doesn't touch either the milky way bar or the coke before the end of the meeting, and then asks if he can take the coke. I don't see him holding a milky way bar wrapped in a piece of paper with a picture of a musketeers bar around it. I also think that because he asked for the coke, he would have asked for the milky way bar if he wanted that too.

I think he left it on the desk.

Otto! It is like deja vu seeing you again. How nice, and I hope all is well with you. Ya Ya

 

[scandi]

They can get a rush on DNA/ NG or JVM had quest that stated a few days. I know from Family experience that DNA can determine father of child at lab .. it took 2 days.

Why the dental records if they knew the dna?? I am sure they have the information at this time. The only reason I can think that they are not releasing it is due to they want to try and attempt to look for more evidence or trying to decide what angle to take to charge him. I assume he will not be leaving peru.. they no way are going to let him go.. and in matter of months he is toast in that place as soon as in with general population.

One other theory that was put out there. What if the Jaw bone was placed there? I dont know why that would take place.. but odd that one bone washed up.. more to follow. I always assumed they put her in crab trap and droped her into ocean.. however crab trap cages are metal perhaps in time salt water can deteroriate the wire casing.

If it was not her I think they would of made public.

I asked the same question Sherry, and a wise old poster told me that if they didn't have enough material to test for DNA, the dental impressions would be a back-up for proof. xox

 

[Nova]

Let me be clear that I am speculating here:

If you have 32 teeth to compare to dental records and they match, I can't calculate the odds but I imagine one could say with considerable degree of certainty that the teeth belong to the person who gave the records. I assume this is why dental records seemed to be considered the most reliable means of establishing identity until DNA testing was developed.

But if you have one tooth, even where there's a match, the reliability of that match must plummet considerably. There must be thousands, maybe millions of people, who have matching molars #4, for example.

Maybe there's a mathematician here who can roughly estimate the difference in probability between 32 matching teeth and 1 matching tooth. I'm guessing it's a very large number.

(ETA: The reason I'm pointing this out is that if the tooth matched NH's records, the Dutch may have wanted to do DNA testing before announcing results. On the other hand, if the tooth was only a near, but not perfect, match, the difference might be attributed to whatever wear and tear the tooth has suffered over the past 5 years. Here again, the Dutch and Arubans may want for DNA results before going public. I'm very sure they don't want any more screw ups on this case.)

 

[annalia]

They can get a rush on DNA/ NG or JVM had quest that stated a few days. I know from Family experience that DNA can determine father of child at lab .. it took 2 days.

Why the dental records if they knew the dna?? I am sure they have the information at this time. The only reason I can think that they are not releasing it is due to they want to try and attempt to look for more evidence or trying to decide what angle to take to charge him. I assume he will not be leaving peru.. they no way are going to let him go.. and in matter of months he is toast in that place as soon as in with general population.

One other theory that was put out there. What if the Jaw bone was placed there? I dont know why that would take place.. but odd that one bone washed up.. more to follow. I always assumed they put her in crab trap and droped her into ocean.. however crab trap cages are metal perhaps in time salt water can deteroriate the wire casing.

If it was not her I think they would of made public.

I heard that in the process of doing the DNA testing it can destroy the tooth so dental records are necessary to compare first in case they weren't able to extract any DNA and then had the tooth destroyed in the process.

 

[annalia]

There's really not too much to believe or not believe at this point. A jaw bone has been found and it has been sent to the Netherlands Forensic Institute for analysis. A preliminary forensic examination suggests that it's the bone of a female, but confirmation has to come from the NFI. Until then, there's not much to do but wait. It would be generous of the NFI to bump this bone to the top of their priority list, but there does not appear to be any urgency in making the comparison. It could be some time before results are known.

My bolding

Where did you hear there wasn't any urgency? It had only been a few days, they first were waiting to get permission to test, they had to get Natalee's dental records and the tests themselves take time.

MOO is that they do have the results, they said from the beginning that the NFI would not make any announcements about the results and all announcements will come from the Aruban authorities. If there's any holdup, that's where it is.

 

[MCDRAW]

My bolding

Where did you hear there wasn't any urgency? It had only been a few days, they first were waiting to get permission to test, they had to get Natalee's dental records and the tests themselves take time.

MOO is that they do have the results, they said from the beginning that the NFI would not make any announcements about the results and all announcements will come from the Aruban authorities. If there's any holdup, that's where it is.

If they know whether it is Natalee or not and they are holding onto the information then they are revictimizing the Holloways. They need to know whether it is or isn't Natalee. I'm not sure Beth Holloway can take much more! Beth Holloway says no answer is unbearable.
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/beth-holloway-says-she-is-anxious-to-learn-whether-bone-is-natalees/19726501?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk2%7C185352

 

[annalia]

If they know whether it is Natalee or not and they are holding onto the information then they are revictimizing the Holloways. They need to know whether it is or isn't Natalee. I'm not sure Beth Holloway can take much more! Beth Holloway says no answer is unbearable.
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/beth-holloway-says-she-is-anxious-to-learn-whether-bone-is-natalees/19726501?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk2%7C185352

I agree with you 100%. I don't know why after all we've seen from Aruba these past five years that I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt but I'm hoping that the reason they haven't announced it yet is because Aruban authorities want to first let Beth and Dave know.

I don't know how much more Beth and Dave can take either, they just want anwers, they deserve answers. When I watched Beth in the video with joran she looked at the end of her rope, those several times when she broke down was difficult to watch. I can't help but also think what this might do to Beth and Dave if it turns out not to be Natalee, they've had so many ups and downs, it's more than anyone can take.

 

[lonetraveler]

They can get a rush on DNA/ NG or JVM had quest that stated a few days. I know from Family experience that DNA can determine father of child at lab .. it took 2 days.

Why the dental records if they knew the dna?? I am sure they have the information at this time. The only reason I can think that they are not releasing it is due to they want to try and attempt to look for more evidence or trying to decide what angle to take to charge him. I assume he will not be leaving peru.. they no way are going to let him go.. and in matter of months he is toast in that place as soon as in with general population.

One other theory that was put out there. What if the Jaw bone was placed there? I dont know why that would take place.. but odd that one bone washed up.. more to follow. I always assumed they put her in crab trap and droped her into ocean.. however crab trap cages are metal perhaps in time salt water can deteroriate the wire casing.

If it was not her I think they would of made public.

I've lived on the islands in my past and wooden fish, lobster and crab traps are still very much used.

 

[passionflower]

This must be one of the worse times for Natalee's family.
Now I pray they do get closure and that it is Natalee.
Waiting is the hardest.

 

[JTribley]

I believe this is a break in the case, who said that "there are so many deaths in Aruba" is wrong, where did you get this from? It is far too coincidental that the jawbone was found on a beach near to where Joran said he was that night. Just like it was very coincidental (before results were confirmed) that the body of a female and unborn baby were found all of those years ago by the San Francisco Bay -- you recall that we all "knew" it was Laci and Connor, as we realised that Scott Peterson had been "fishing" in about the same area....this is the same....I feel.

 

[eachandevery]

I know this isn't the ideal outcome, but I'm really hoping this is Natalee. Obviously, the preferred discovery would have been that she's alive, but I don't think that's the case - especially after the murder Joran committed in Peru. It's heartbreaking to see and listen to Beth, and it has to be just as tough on Dave. I just want the family to know that their daughter has died, to have concrete proof of that instead of being tortured by Joran's lies. I don't know if they'll ever find out what happened to her, but at least they will have found their daughter. I can't imagine what Natalee's brother has been going through, all these years.

As far as decency goes, I don't believe Aruban authorities have one shred of it. If I recall correctly, according to Beth's book, they claimed to have found Natalee and had her in custody at one of the police stations. When she got there, the girl clearly was not Natalee and there was a group of media waiting outside the station. So no, it wouldn't surprise me if the authorities went to the media first and then got around to notifying the family. I'm not against law enforcement, but these guys are horrible.