Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[LexiS123]

Having another look at Marion's letter, I think she did write 'south' and not 'north'. In the letter, her small 'n' is quite sharp, her small 's' is written in different styles, but if you look at the word 'scales' towards the bottom of the page, the 's' there is of similar structure to the word I now think says 'south'. MOO

I was thinking the same thing. There also appears to be a 'u' in the word IMO.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

@Roseberry FWIW when I'm trying to find something in this case, I google it very specifically and with lots of quotation marks-- and it pops up. The images are usually from the Marion FB site but often from here too. Google google, not searching WS.

_____

Love all the activity and ideas, just listening. Luxembourg as a criminal's playland! (having his daughter born there clearly was important for some reason.) You've all convinced me that RB was indeed a petty criminal, probably carrying on his first crimes for the rest of his life. Smuggling, forging, counterfeiting, money laundering. But I get the idea he was always low on the criminal totem pole even if he was a big talker. I also wonder if he didn't fall into the romance scam period, as a side activity, by chance. He met a woman, had a relationship, saw how vulnerable she was, and the rest is history. So for the 1990s he juggled women and his usual criminal activities. I do not think he was ever a big player or mastermind because of how pathetic he is now. IMO acting pathetic is not easy. IMO I also think we have not heard the end of the real FR.

 

[Roseberry]

Having another look at Marion's letter, I think she did write 'south' and not 'north'. In the letter, her small 'n' is quite sharp, her small 's' is written in different styles, but if you look at the word 'scales' towards the bottom of the page, the 's' there is of similar structure to the word I now think says 'south'. MOO

I'd always assumed it said south, but going back I can see an n like that, on the reverse of the hotel paper. Now I can see both, alternately, Her writing was so variable.Her route back to Oz was through HK?

 

[Roseberry]

@Roseberry FWIW when I'm trying to find something in this case, I google it very specifically and with lots of quotation marks-- and it pops up. The images are usually from the Marion FB site but often from here too. Google google, not searching WS.

_____

Love all the activity and ideas, just listening. Luxembourg as a criminal's playland! (having his daughter born there clearly was important for some reason.) You've all convinced me that RB was indeed a petty criminal, probably carrying on his first crimes for the rest of his life. Smuggling, forging, counterfeiting, money laundering. But I get the idea he was always low on the criminal totem pole even if he was a big talker. I also wonder if he didn't fall into the romance scam period, as a side activity, by chance. He met a woman, had a relationship, saw how vulnerable she was, and the rest is history. So for the 1990s he juggled women and his usual criminal activities. I do not think he was ever a big player or mastermind because of how pathetic he is now. IMO acting pathetic is not easy. IMO I also think we have not heard the end of the real FR.

Thank you @MrsEmmaPeel! I was today years old when I discovered all WS was out there and searchable via google .

 

[Roseberry]

Maybe he did only return once....in that name....is he hiding another alias that hasn't been proven yet at the inquest???

Are Aus Land Information records searchable by either an address or a name as they are here? Can only seem to do it by title.

 

[fastpiece]

I'd always assumed it said south, but going back I can see an n like that, on the reverse of the hotel paper. Now I can see both, alternately, Her writing was so variable.Her route back to Oz was through HK?

I looked at the letter again and she writes school further down like the what I thought was a "n" for north. I think it does say south.
Also someone was asking about the the postcard written to SL Aunt. I'm pretty sure it was Rye and sent from Hastings.

 

[Meligator]

Just interesting that Marion uses a bank in Rye on Mint St, while involved with a coin collector. Wonder if Mint st has any connection to a coin mint or coins in general?

 

[Zanzibar]

Interesting dates -

DdeH birthdate - 16 April 1951
DdeH (son) birthdate - 2 April 1970
MdeH birthdate - 17 April 1981


1980 6 Feb – FdeH Departs Australia

1980 April 23 – DdeH and son D ( he is 1 yr old) depart Australia for Amsterdam

1981 Jan 21 – DdeH and DdeH ( son) back into Australia from Germany

1981 April 17 - MdeH born in Luxembourg - So they must leave Aust within 3 months, for MdeH to be born in Lux?

….. and then back to AUS again shortly thereafter. You’ve got DDeH (son) dob out by a decade too.

I had the exact same question mark on my timeline. Unless DdH is not the biological mother, she has to have gone back is for the birth and then back to AUS shortly thereafter. Unusual for a 3rd trimester pregnant woman to fly so frequently (esp with a toddler as well) and then again with a relative newborn.

 

[Zanzibar]

Are Aus Land Information records searchable by either an address or a name as they are here? Can only seem to do it by title.

As far as I am aware, our land information and titles are searchable only by address and each state does it differently.

edit to add…. I started searching the many addresses that have popped up but each one costs money to get a title to see ownership transfers and I haven’t got that much to throw away. Someone on here in the conveyancing field may be able to access through professional databases. You’ll need Qld, NSW and TAS though.

 

[LouLouSleuth]

I just listened again to some of JO’s testimony on 4 Feb.

They went to Bali and did nothing touristy. However they took a cab to a slum area then back to their hotel.

When they got to Amsterdam, RB supplied JO with a bag for some of her clothes. It’s a little unclear, but I think this was a bag for her summer clothes. She mentions just one outfit and a pair of shoes - hardly worth storing as there would have been no weight to them.

It couldn’t have been this bag she used to go to the UK, because I checked the Amsterdam temperatures for December 1999, and they range between 0°C and 10°C.
Amsterdam Fall 1999 Historical Weather Data (Netherlands) - Weather Spark

In Britain at the same time the temperature was around 2°C.

London, United Kingdom Weather History | Weather Underground

There is no way she would have left her warm clothes behind in those kinds of temperatures.

So a token amount of women’s clothes were left in a locker in Amsterdam in a bag RB supplied after they had flown in from Bali.

It makes me wonder if summer clothes were the only thing removed from JO’s bag and placed into another bag belonging to RB after they cleared customs. And why did RB, who liked to travel light, happen to have an extra bag? And is there some reason why it might have been important for that bag of RB’s to look like it belonged to JO should any questions be raised about it?

And then, of course, as we know, after depositing JO and her winter clothes in the UK, he scurried back to Amsterdam. Did he find he had a particular use for a bag containing JO’s summer clothes and whatever other souvenirs from Bali the bag might contain?

It does make you wonder.

We’ve questioned drug trafficking before. Does he hide drugs in a bag with womens clothing, then take the key, hide that somewhere else, say in the mens bathroom at the airport and someone else comes along for a pick up???

 

[Roseberry]

As far as I am aware, our land information and titles are searchable only by address and each state does it differently.

edit to add…. I started searching the many addresses that have popped up but each one costs money to get a title to see ownership transfers and I haven’t got that much to throw away. Someone on here in the conveyancing field may be able to access through professional databases. You’ll need Qld, NSW and TAS though.

That's a pain. When I was looking for MJR I could find all the properties ever owned by any MJR variation and if I wanted to see, say who owned all the properties in say, an Armidale Rd I could do that too.

 

[mishy66]

Interesting dates -

DdeH birthdate - 16 April 1951
DdeH (son) birthdate - 2 April 1970
MdeH birthdate - 17 April 1981


1980 6 Feb – FdeH Departs Australia

1980 April 23 – DdeH and son D ( he is 1 yr old) depart Australia for Amsterdam

1981 Jan 21 – DdeH and DdeH ( son) back into Australia from Germany

1981 April 17 - MdeH born in Luxembourg - So they must leave Aust within 3 months, for MdeH to be born in Lux?

….. and then back to AUS again shortly thereafter. You’ve got DDeH (son) dob out by a decade too.

I had the exact same question mark on my timeline. Unless DdH is not the biological mother, she has to have gone back is for the birth and then back to AUS shortly thereafter. Unusual for a 3rd trimester pregnant woman to fly so frequently (esp with a toddler as well) and then again with a relative newborn.

Yes I saw that I had typed 1970 instead of 1979. Just a slip up. And too late to edit it.



DdeH birthdate - 16 April 1951
DdeH (son) birthdate - 2 April 1979
MdeH birthdate - 17 April 1981


1980 6 Feb – FdeH Departs Australia

1980 April 23 – DdeH and son D ( he is 1 yr old) depart Australia for Amsterdam

1981 Jan 21 – DdeH and DdeH ( son) back into Australia from Germany

1981 April 17 - MdeH born in Luxembourg - So they must leave Aust within 3 months, for MdeH to be born in Lux?

The children get baptised in Burwash on 1 December 1984, then all back into Australia 1986.

 

[Roseberry]

We’ve questioned drug trafficking before. Does he hide drugs in a bag with womens clothing, then take the key, hide that somewhere else, say in the mens bathroom at the airport and someone else comes along for a pick up???

With JO it does seem like an awfully long and convoluted path to borrow the books for a bit, especially on your own dime. If he was going to borrow them for good in Amsterdam, then no need for her to come home, ever. If he was going to return them and travel JO home and borrow them for good once he'd got back there, that's more economical, especially if it was combined with other activities that someone else was paying travel for. And if you really didn't need to borrow the books at any point for a bit of photocopying overseas, then you wouldn't need to travel outside Aus at all.

With MB, there's no books only $ and if the plan had worked and she'd been able to draw from Barclays, then no need for her to return either. But if the plan all along was for her to return with some books or legumes or other souvenirs that would be very economical also.

Two left suitcases.

 

[Untangle]

If your WC from Bali lives in Kerobokan, than he’s on Instagram with quite a bit of followers + a quote about art. His picture is not our Mr Aka, but he seems the right age to be your WC.

Yes, he appears to be a visual artist.

I was just thinking since he has the same WC name, if he could be a cousin of RB or something. And we've heard how much RB likes to visit family when he's abroad.

But the name and Bali connection could easily just be a coincidence as well.

 

[mishy66]

Can anyone remember where the postcard was from where MB mentioned she'd met Maz and the Dutch dentist? I know someone put them all up a while ago and I should've saved them but I just can't find it. TIA.

I thought she told Sally about meeting Maz and the 'dentist' on the phonecall? ( maybe not?)

These are the only two postcards I have -

Alfriston in East Sussex is the one that Sally thought was from Tunbridge Wells.

And the other one to a sister where she mentions she is staying with a nice family.

 

[Carovb5]

I just saw a ‘documentary’ of Peter R De Vries (Dutch Crime reporter) about the unrelated death of a Dutch traveller Mariska Mast in Honduras, with a suspecg from Australia.

The case & people are not related at all but the way the Australian police & law protect its citizens, even when they are wanted by Interpol, was very interesting to me. I always thought that he would get arrested & given to Interpol. I thought i read Australia had extradition treaty before…


A question for the Australian people over here: when you commit a crime on another Australian in another country, do they still protect you (as it happened in another country?) Is it still the case that when Interpol has a warrant for your arrest for a crime in another country, you’re protected by the Australian law & police?

Thanks in advance, it would maybe help me understand Mr Aka’s travels a bit more.

 

[Zanzibar]

Yes I saw that I had typed 1970 instead of 1979. Just a slip up. And too late to edit

Ah! Bugger.
Another date I had in this timeline was …

15 May 1980 - NAA record has his address as 33 Rusbrook St, Redland Bay QLD

1 Aug 1980 - electoral roll has their address as 287 Military Road, Dover Heights, Sydney NSW.

Either the NAA file had an incorrect or old address or they somehow managed to re enroll to vote in an Australian address whilst living overseas.

Regarding DdH flying back to give birth to MdH, the NAA file doesn’t mention any travel outside of AUS for DdH after her return from Germany when talking about this period of time, yet they mentioned the return from Germany so they were looking for her travel details. This is why at first I thought I had missed something but now you’ve raised it I feel less of a dunce.

 

[Zanzibar]

I just saw a ‘documentary’ of Peter R De Vries (Dutch Crime reporter) about the unrelated death of a Dutch traveller Mariska Mast in Honduras, with a suspecg from Australia.

The case & people are not related at all but the way the Australian police & law protect its citizens, even when they are wanted by Interpol, was very interesting to me. I always thought that he would get arrested & given to Interpol. I thought i read Australia had extradition treaty before…


A question for the Australian people over here: when you commit a crime on another Australian in another country, do they still protect you (as it happened in another country?) Is it still the case that when Interpol has a warrant for your arrest for a crime in another country, you’re protected by the Australian law & police?

Thanks in advance, it would maybe help me understand Mr Aka’s travels a bit more.

Others may well have a more informed answer but my understanding is it depends on both the alleged crime and if an extradition agreement exists between AUS and the country in question.

I think what happened here was a level of confusion in identifying him and locating him (his MO really). There also seems to be a substantial lack of action / follow up between the immigration offices in each state and the AFP as shown in the NAA files. Something I imagine will be covered in the Coroners findings.

 

[brjakj]

Yes, he appears to be a visual artist.

I was just thinking since he has the same WC name, if he could be a cousin of RB or something. And we've heard how much RB likes to visit family when he's abroad.

But the name and Bali connection could easily just be a coincidence as well.

if he is who he says he is, then he has a cousin “William Coppeno11e”. Not sure if this is the same person or not.

 

[car54]

I just saw a ‘documentary’ of Peter R De Vries (Dutch Crime reporter) about the unrelated death of a Dutch traveller Mariska Mast in Honduras, with a suspecg from Australia.

The case & people are not related at all but the way the Australian police & law protect its citizens, even when they are wanted by Interpol, was very interesting to me. I always thought that he would get arrested & given to Interpol. I thought i read Australia had extradition treaty before…


A question for the Australian people over here: when you commit a crime on another Australian in another country, do they still protect you (as it happened in another country?) Is it still the case that when Interpol has a warrant for your arrest for a crime in another country, you’re protected by the Australian law & police?

Thanks in advance, it would maybe help me understand Mr Aka’s travels a bit more.

Peter de Vries' investigative skills led to his assassination on 15 July last year.

Killing of Peter R. de Vries - Wikipedia