Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[StarrChance]

I’m lost, who is MJR?

Not trying to be difficult , I don't think I can post the husband full name due to websleuth rules?

 

[centred]

Yes... I’m wondering if the kids were his. Even if they weren’t, maybe they should be interviewed too as they might know something that could help.

On the post it doesnt say when she passed away at 23 years or i missed it ?

 

[StarrChance]

Did Marion visit Tonbridge or Tunbridge Wells or both?

 

[StarrChance]

dbm

 

[centred]

Not trying to be difficult , I don't think I can post the husband full name due to websleuth rules?

Safe side i suppose .

 

[StarrChance]

Do we know if Willy Wouters is verifed as his original name?
Could it be another alias?

 

[StarrChance]

On the post it doesnt say when she passed away at 23 years or i missed it ?

She married at 23, passed at 31.

 

[MrsWattle]

She married at 23, passed at 31.

How old was she when she migrated to Australia as wife of WW?

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Sorry if this has been posted previously. Death index of RB first wife.
Name: Ilona Jacoueline Reid
Death Age: 31
Birth Date: abt 1947
Death Date: Abt 1978
Death Place: St Kilda, Victoria
Registration Date: 1978
Registration Place: Australia
Father: Josef Kinczel
Mother: Elizabeth Novotny

i wonder if she had much of a life insurance!

 

[poppypopcorn]

DNA test will help to determine his true identity

It really won't.

I am currently most of the way through a postgraduate degree in family history / genealogy and we have looked at a lot of DNA testing stuff. DNA testing has two sides - the first is the police side where you have a sample from an unknown victim or unknown perpetrator, and look for matches from other people. Sally has given a DNA sample to the Australian police in order to be compared against any unidentified remains which could potentially be her mother. This is controversial - in the UK for example DNA samples from a crime scene can only be compared against the police's own information, not against all the tests people have done through My Heritage, Ancestry, 23 and Me etc. DNA samples would not have been taken of this man of many names when he was committing crimes in Europe in the 70s and 80s.

A test run on someone from Western Europe may or may not throw up close relatives. I have done a DNA test, my husband has done one too and the closest relatives identified are 3rd cousins - that means we share great great grandparents. To work out how people are related you then have to build proper family trees backed by documentary evidence/certificates. This is not always easy, especially when you are potentially looking at countries at Eastern Europe which were under German control in 1945, then part of the Eastern Bloc, then independent. Records are all over the place and written in a range of languages, if they have survived at all. The ethnicity estimates produced by a site like Ancestry aren't that accurate either, especially with a population in western/central Europe which has been intermingling for generations.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But don't underestimate how long it might take, and how much work is involved. Then all the ethical/legal issues, and the costs.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I am also wondering whether the "finding RB through a podcast tip off" is related to the thing about something in a Los Angeles library which was made out to be a huge lead, and never mentioned again.

Although it is of course entirely possible that someone was listening to the podcast who knew this man when he was using the Remakel name in Queensland, and passed that info on.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I am also wondering whether the "finding RB through a podcast tip off" is related to the thing about something in a Los Angeles library which was made out to be a huge lead, and never mentioned again.

Although it is of course entirely possible that someone was listening to the podcast who knew this man when he was using the Remakel name in Queensland, and passed that info on.

What is the “finding RB through a podcast tip-off”?
I just assumed the cops found him through info they had from his past Remakel drivers license and tracing back to him.

 

[Habbott]

I am also wondering whether the "finding RB through a podcast tip off" is related to the thing about something in a Los Angeles library which was made out to be a huge lead, and never mentioned again.
.

I asked on the Facebook page about this months ago and was told the LA lead had come to nothing.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I’ve listened - Alison said police found RB as a tip-off resulting from the podcast. Does she mean the add in Le Courier? I feel as though the podcast are just going to pretend that their harassment of the real FR didn’t happen. I remember all that time ago Brian declaring that the real FR was “the only one in the world”. Sure. I do not think any acknowledgment that they were barking up the wrong tree is going to be forthcoming.

This post - I haven't listed to the latest episode yet as I'm in the UK and it was uploaded overnight. But this post does seem to indicate that the podcast was the spark for the tip off

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am also wondering whether the "finding RB through a podcast tip off" is related to the thing about something in a Los Angeles library which was made out to be a huge lead, and never mentioned again.

Although it is of course entirely possible that someone was listening to the podcast who knew this man when he was using the Remakel name in Queensland, and passed that info on.

They said on the FB page the library lead turn out to be nothing.

Most of what they found on the podcast lead no where, it was really the sleuth finding the advert and the squeaky wheel of the Podcast itself that got the polices attention, for that reason the podcast was great, but I don't think the people doing the podcasts really unearthed anything themselves.

I think we will find out at somestage how they located him, they must have a bit on him for him to admit to the ad and knowing Marion, because he seems to have a brain fade when it comes to his other victims.

 

[MrsWattle]

It really won't.

I am currently most of the way through a postgraduate degree in family history / genealogy and we have looked at a lot of DNA testing stuff. DNA testing has two sides - the first is the police side where you have a sample from an unknown victim or unknown perpetrator, and look for matches from other people. Sally has given a DNA sample to the Australian police in order to be compared against any unidentified remains which could potentially be her mother. This is controversial - in the UK for example DNA samples from a crime scene can only be compared against the police's own information, not against all the tests people have done through My Heritage, Ancestry, 23 and Me etc. DNA samples would not have been taken of this man of many names when he was committing crimes in Europe in the 70s and 80s.

A test run on someone from Western Europe may or may not throw up close relatives. I have done a DNA test, my husband has done one too and the closest relatives identified are 3rd cousins - that means we share great great grandparents. To work out how people are related you then have to build proper family trees backed by documentary evidence/certificates. This is not always easy, especially when you are potentially looking at countries at Eastern Europe which were under German control in 1945, then part of the Eastern Bloc, then independent. Records are all over the place and written in a range of languages, if they have survived at all. The ethnicity estimates produced by a site like Ancestry aren't that accurate either, especially with a population in western/central Europe which has been intermingling for generations.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But don't underestimate how long it might take, and how much work is involved. Then all the ethical/legal issues, and the costs.

.
I'm going to be a bit more positive and say, I recently found 5 of my first cousins, DNA can definitely help with finding family members, who knows Willy Wouters might have had more children with his lovers who are trying to find him. Also the ethnicity can be helpful, Belgium, Dutch, Hungarian, Algerian French?

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

This post - I haven't listed to the latest episode yet as I'm in the UK and it was uploaded overnight. But this post does seem to indicate that the podcast was the spark for the tip off

I haven’t listened to the podcast either, but do they just mean that if it wasn’t for the podcast there wouldn’t have been a websleuth who found the Remakel ad which showed that Marion may be linked to that ad. With questions over this Remakel name and ad, the coroner then (last year) requested more research into the name, which ultimately led to the QLD drivers license Remakel name and them able to trace back to RB.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

With regard to his 1st wife being Hungarian. The communists closed the borders in Hungary in 1947 the year of her birth. I wonder if her parents were amongst the 200000 that managed to escape that year?

 

[LouLouSleuth]

ungated side pebbled passage leading to the back of the property.

Sorry I’m no map expert but that sounds like a lane, or lane-like thing. Still don’t know what the significance of those questions were though

 

[chinguetti]

maybe a reference to the original ideal of the Ye old passy imo
but what was the thingy he was accused of forging again ? a Name plate ?
oops

View digital copy
"a) in Roulers, in the judiciary of Courtran, between 1 September 1976 and 31 March 1977, a forged die carrying the inscription Ye Old Passy - Australia Tamborine Queensland". I dont understand how this could be a crime....