Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Couldbe]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Tyrrell foster parents plead not guilty

"Media organisations didn't oppose keeping a gag order for the foster parents' identity, addresses and other witnesses but objected to restrictions on evidence given in the proceedings.

However, upon viewing documents presented to the court by the foster parents and the "relentless attention" on William's case, the magistrate was satisfied there was a "very real risk of harm" to the couple without the broader restriction.

The non-publication orders will expire either at the conclusion of the assault case or the end of William's inquest - which is the latter.
The case was adjourned until February 22 for full service of the brief of evidence."

I think this means that we, the public will not find out any details of the case for a while.

 

[organised_chaos]

we are live again! yay

I was reading through this new article posted earlier (thank you) and just want to hear your thoughts more on this sentence in this article:

Tyrrell witness interviews continue

'Detectives are now reviewing evidence gathered in Kendall last year in consultation with forensic experts as well as conducting fresh interviews.'

Would you take this to mean talking to new/newish people that maybe haven't been scrutinised - or the information they shared - being scrutinised until now? If so, I am thinking what about the truck driver? I know we sleuthed this a few threads ago, but they have been removed until further notice. I shared the transcript of FFM discussing seeing the truck driver on Batar Creek Rd:

“A semi-trailer coming down really fast…and I pulled..he think, he thought, I pulled over cos he acknowledged me by saying ‘Thanks for pulling over..’’

‘but, I pulled over cos I’ve just got my head out the window looking for W…’

Here is the video with her gesticulations as she speaks about this encounter:

Police walkthrough reveals details about William Tyrrell's foster parents

Do we know if the truck driver was ever interviewed fully? and has this information been taken off the table?

These are just thoughtful observations and IMO, JMO.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I can't see how they would be able to remain foster parents after going down this path. If you are legally deemed too unwell to be held accountable for your actions, then surely that would make them inappropriate carers

 

[katydid23]

However, it was also reported in the media that the assault occurred at a home in Sydney's North Shore....

The 56-year-old woman and 54-year-old man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, will face court next week over the alleged assault which took place at a home on Sydney’s Upper North Shore.


And from the same newspaper:
William Tyrrell’s foster parents are expected to fight charges of assaulting a child by arguing that the alleged victim may have fallen from a horse.

It is unlikely for both versions to be true.... IMO, although I am sure there would be a few large, and very valuable properties on the North Shore that have horse riding opportunities.....
However, I find this most unlikely on a suburban block... IMO

So once again we are faced with "what is actually true"???

William Tyrrell foster parents charged with assault (theaustralian.com.au)

Foster parents to fight child assault charge (theaustralian.com.au)

Edited to add both versions referenced .

Here is an example of how both versions could possibly be true----

Perhaps there was a horse riding incident, which created a large bruise.

And perhaps there was also an incident of some kind, between both parents and the daughter, that occurred around the same time. Maybe the child and parents were arguing and the child wanted to leave the house out of anger ---[ we had that happen when our kids were young]-----and maybe they tussled and parents tried to prevent her from leaving the premises.....

Is the bruise from the altercation or from the horse incident?

Can the parents use the 'mental health' excuse, maybe claiming that seeing their child wanting to walk away angry triggered their fears about child safety and caused them to over react and try to prevent her from leaving?

All of the above is SPECULATION-----I am just saying that there are potential scenarios where both versions could possibly be true

 

[katydid23]

so it seems fps are admitting there was an actual assault commited by both of them on the child by claiming it was due to mental health issues? poor little girl, so much sadness in her short life

The foster parents have pleaded not guilty, with their lawyers telling Hornsby Local Court in December they intend to argue their case should be dealt with under the Mental Health Act.
Tyrrell witness interviews continue

We don't know if it was an 'actual assault' by both parents. There is is much that is unknown. And we don't know what the actual mental health issue is.

'What if it is something like this:

The child is angry at the parents, which preteens sometimes are...and let's say the parents told her she was grounded, for example...and she gets angry about that.

Maybe the child rebels and says NO WAY, you can't tell me what to do, I'm going to my friend's house!!!

What if the parents felt triggered by the previous loss of their son, and kind of like PTSD, over reacted to the child's threats to leave the home that day/night? Maybe they tussled with her, tried to prevent her from leaving the home?

IF it ended up being something closer to that, would it be more understandable?

I think many are jumping to the conclusion that the parents are claiming they are mentally ill and assaulted the child because they are out of control and they don't want to be held accountable for their unwarranted assault.

But we don't know if that is the case at all. The magistrate seemed to think it was not that serious of a situation, IIRC.

So I do think it is possible that it is something more understandable and might be less 'horrifying' than some are assuming it to be. JMO

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

The way in which the assault has been reported to authorities could be telling too, was it the child, was it witnessed by others etc.

 

[Jaded325594]

The way in which the assault has been reported to authorities could be telling too, was it the child, was it witnessed by others etc.

Has the house been bugged since September and so the police witnessed it themselves? Is that why the AVO was lodged by homicide detectives? Imo

 

[Couldbe]

The way in which the assault has been reported to authorities could be telling too, was it the child, was it witnessed by others etc.

I have wondered too if what the altercation was about will be taken into consideration when the case is heard.

 

[SLouTh]

Here is an example of how both versions could possibly be true----

Perhaps there was a horse riding incident, which created a large bruise.

And perhaps there was also an incident of some kind, between both parents and the daughter, that occurred around the same time. Maybe the child and parents were arguing and the child wanted to leave the house out of anger ---[ we had that happen when our kids were young]-----and maybe they tussled and parents tried to prevent her from leaving the premises.....

Is the bruise from the altercation or from the horse incident?

Can the parents use the 'mental health' excuse, maybe claiming that seeing their child wanting to walk away angry triggered their fears about child safety and caused them to over react and try to prevent her from leaving?

All of the above is SPECULATION-----I am just saying that there are potential scenarios where both versions could possibly be true

Ok .... there is also the possibility that neither version is true...... That was more the point I was trying to make ..... we just don't know what has happened..... and we all know that the media don't always get it right either....IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Do we know if the truck driver was ever interviewed fully? and has this information been taken off the table?

To the best of my knowledge on the case, it has not been reported by media, if the truck driver has ever been found, or gave evidence to Police ...... I can't recall having read that anywhere .....
IMO

 

[Warshawski]

Who knows I’m also interested in as you say. ..

If was me in that seat, after all this time & no results, I would want to start afresh & check everything. So I think it could well be a case of re-interviewing those who previously may possibly have had ‘something of interest’ in their story or responses + interviewing others that may have come to the fore in the 7 year aftermath.

The driver of that semi-trailer that FFC reported as having encountered that morning certainly should be / have been afforded attention.

FFC said ‘ A semi-trailer coming down really fast…and I pulled..he think, he thought, I pulled over cos he acknowledged me by saying ‘Thanks for pulling over..’’

Did he really ? He’s driving a semi-trailer really fast but he also says ‘thanks for pulling over’ and she can actually hear him say that ?

 

[SLouTh]

'Detectives are now reviewing evidence gathered in Kendall last year in consultation with forensic experts as well as conducting fresh interviews.'

This article seems to be inferring the fresh interviews, include the interviews of a child, about William's disappearance..... IMO

Detectives are now reviewing evidence gathered in Kendall last year in consultation with forensic experts as well as conducting fresh interviews.

Among those being interviewed is a child, who is not William, who police allege was assaulted by William’s foster parents in an unrelated case that will return to court this year.

Neither the child nor the couple can be identified for legal reasons, while non-publication orders also restrict media reporting on the nature of the allegations.

William Tyrrell: Detectives continue witness interviews | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Who knows I’m also interested in as you say. ..

If was me in that seat, after all this time & no results, I would want to start afresh & check everything. So I think it could well be a case of re-interviewing those who previously may possibly have had ‘something of interest’ in their story or responses + interviewing others that may have come to the fore in the 7 year aftermath.

The driver of that semi-trailer that FFC reported as having encountered that morning certainly should be / have been afforded attention.

FFC said ‘ A semi-trailer coming down really fast…and I pulled..he think, he thought, I pulled over cos he acknowledged me by saying ‘Thanks for pulling over..’’

Did he really ? He’s driving a semi-trailer really fast but he also says ‘thanks for pulling over’ and she can actually hear him say that ?

perhaps the FFFC had ch 40 in grans car and could listen to all the truckies via UHF

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

FFC said ‘ A semi-trailer coming down really fast…and I pulled..he think, he thought, I pulled over cos he acknowledged me by saying ‘Thanks for pulling over..’’

Did he really ? He’s driving a semi-trailer really fast but he also says ‘thanks for pulling over’ and she can actually hear him say that ?

In the country, people wave to say thank you from a vehicle. It is a common thing.

imo

 

[katydid23]

In the country, people wave to say thank you from a vehicle. It is a common thing.

imo

Truckers even do that here in the city...I ended up in a small alley behind my friend's home, right as the large garbage truck was rounding the corner....I backed up and pulled over so it could get by....and he waved and nodded Thank You as he passed....and this is Los Angeles...

 

[Warshawski]

Here is an example of how both versions could possibly be true----

Perhaps there was a horse riding incident, which created a large bruise.

And perhaps there was also an incident of some kind, between both parents and the daughter, that occurred around the same time. Maybe the child and parents were arguing and the child wanted to leave the house out of anger ---[ we had that happen when our kids were young]-----and maybe they tussled and parents tried to prevent her from leaving the premises.....

Is the bruise from the altercation or from the horse incident?

Can the parents use the 'mental health' excuse, maybe claiming that seeing their child wanting to walk away angry triggered their fears about child safety and caused them to over react and try to prevent her from leaving?

All of the above is SPECULATION-----I am just saying that there are potential scenarios where both versions could possibly be true

Cheers Katy & for sure, imo there are any number of situations / challenges/ dilemmas that parents face in bringing up children. And there can be regrettable moments where unintended ‘bruises’ occur ( mainly mine as I copped a split lip from a toddler head-butt or an older wrestle, a regular almost broken toe from those stupid ‘bouncinettes’, a sore back from being the buckin’ bronco, a bitten arm from a Tanti child etc !!)

However, and this is purely my own speculation - I don’t think this charge is the result of an innocent exchange nor the result of ‘caring parental intervention’.

I do wonder about the lead-up / how did the charge come about ?

Did William’s sister suddenly decide to tell her story ?
Did William’s sister suddenly decide she’d had enough & make a complaint ?
Did the Police have the FC home under surveillance & witnessed the assault ?

So many questions - so few answers - and still an innocent little boy is not where he rightfully should be

 

[Warshawski]

We don't know if it was an 'actual assault' by both parents. There is is much that is unknown. And we don't know what the actual mental health issue is.

'What if it is something like this:

The child is angry at the parents, which preteens sometimes are...and let's say the parents told her she was grounded, for example...and she gets angry about that.

Maybe the child rebels and says NO WAY, you can't tell me what to do, I'm going to my friend's house!!!

What if the parents felt triggered by the previous loss of their son, and kind of like PTSD, over reacted to the child's threats to leave the home that day/night? Maybe they tussled with her, tried to prevent her from leaving the home?

IF it ended up being something closer to that, would it be more understandable?

I think many are jumping to the conclusion that the parents are claiming they are mentally ill and assaulted the child because they are out of control and they don't want to be held accountable for their unwarranted assault.

But we don't know if that is the case at all. The magistrate seemed to think it was not that serious of a situation, IIRC.

So I do think it is possible that it is something more understandable and might be less 'horrifying' than some are assuming it to be. JMO

I get your thought pattern Katy & certainly one would hope that this was a one-off unfortunate occurrence.

As per my previous post, there continues to be so many unknowns.

Personally I don’t think the Magistrate did the FCs any favours by shrouding this case in secrecy & by using words to the effect that they could be subject to harm if the details were made public .. wtf ... why would that be the case if an this was an accidental occurrence ?

IMO, she should / could have chosen her words better, but hey, maybe she was not at her best ..

 

[Warshawski]

To the best of my knowledge on the case, it has not been reported by media, if the truck driver has ever been found, or gave evidence to Police ...... I can't recall having read that anywhere .....
IMO

Similarly SLouTh, I’ve no knowledge of that either, but I also don’t purport to have an extensive log of all that’s been made public.

At the same time (IMO) there is no doubt so much in Police files that has never been released - inquisitive as I am, that’s what I want to know And I hope & pray that the answers for William & his family will be contained within & will soon be revealed.

 

[Warshawski]

perhaps the FFFC had ch 40 in grans car and could listen to all the truckies via UHF

IMO

lol - thanks for a lighter moment in all this sadness & uncertainty
(I knew it by CB radio)

 

[Warshawski]

In the country, people wave to say thank you from a vehicle. It is a common thing.

imo

Yep SA, in the country people do usually ‘acknowledge’ others on the road by what could perhaps be termed as a ‘wave’ - but there’s no verbal attached to that ‘wave’ so IMO how did FFC know what was said to her ?
She reported the He Said ‘Thanks for pulling over..’’

As a side note, I’m a country born & bred Aussie - & a former truckie - - it’s a One Finger Salute that’s given & in true Aussie style, it’ll cover a multitude of (favourable) sentiments. I’d dare to suggest that if the lips are moving the sentiments may be less than favourable ! IMO ...