Bosma Murder Trial 02.10.16 - Day 7

[Tamarind]

For continuity of evidence, I do not believe anything at all was done to the trailer while it was in Hamilton. Gibson sealed the doors and put a padlock on the back door. They towed it to Hamilton. AND WAITED FOR THE WARRANTS. They would have not have unsealed the trailer and gained access UNTIL they had authorization to do so. Once they got the warrants, presumably the Monday the 13th, Officer Laura Troubridge headed to the secure facility in Hamilton and drove behind the tow truck that was taking it to Tillsonburg where they were going to process the truck and trailer (2 different warrants) for evidence. The fact that there was a police presence at the location in Hamilton was likely (MOO) to keep the scene secure and so they could testify that it would have been impossible for an unknown subject to plant evidence/etc.

Do we know if the police stayed overnight?

 

[RandomName479]

Yes but as was pointed out yesterday by Ontario Mom I believe, that was Mother's Day. Could account for more traffic than normal.

The drive from Hamilton to Tillsonburg was described as being during rush hour traffic - and it would be impossible for this to have occurred on the Sunday. There was no mention of heavy traffic or any traffic issues on the drive from Kleinberg to Hamilton which definitely did happen on Mother's Day

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Either DM and MS knew the back door didn't lock properly and that is why they jammed it up against the house. Or they only had the 2 locks for the man doors. My opinion is that if you are going to the trouble to "hide" the trailer at your mom's house, and you put the 2 locks on the man doors but not the rear door, it is because you knew a lock on the back door wouldn't matter. MOO

 

[RandomName479]

[/B] Do we know if the police stayed overnight?

Nope. Hasn't been introduced into evidence. They may have stayed all night. May not have. There may be security cameras (I would think this is the case, but hasn't been introduced into evidence) Even if they didn't, it was a secure location and the doors were all sealed with Gibson's signature on them. To tamper with evidence the seals would have had to be broken or someone would have had to gain access with a chainsaw or something....and I think that would leave noticeable damage.

 

[RandomName479]

Either DM and MS knew the back door didn't lock properly and that is why they jammed it up against the house. Or they only had the 2 locks for the man doors. My opinion is that if you are going to the trouble to "hide" the trailer at your mom's house, and you put the 2 locks on the man doors but not the rear door, it is because you knew a lock on the back door wouldn't matter. MOO

I'm going to subscribe to the "didn't have enough locks" theory and prevented access to the back by parking it so close to the garage......but who knows?

 

[Tamarind]

Except in this case, it would just appear to me as a juror that they could have had MORE evidence against the accused.

MOO

Didn't they go back to check the highway? It was busy apparently, so anything heavier than an empty cardboard box would have possibly cause injury or an accident to other drivers. I am surprised that there was an empty box in the trailer. It's a good thing nothing heavier was placed inside that trailer, I am assuming the truck was secured IMO. I wonder if there are any witnesses who travelled behind the unmarked police car and could see into the trailer? I would like to hear that testimony.

 

[inbetweendoors]

I missed that link. Do you have it? I thought he just said he sealed the trailer, it could mean he sealed the door he entered (on side)

Sorry if this was already answered, just catching up.

I always took "seal" to mean police tape, never an actual lock. Like the red tape they'd put on evidence so if that "seal" is broken, it nees to be signed by who opened it, etc...

But here I've found something:

Adam Carter Feb 10 2016 11:00 AM
The padlock was locked on the door, she says, but the door wasn't secured. "You didn't secure the trailer at that moment with another lock?" Pillay asks."I didn't have one," she answers. Pillay asks if she could have called for backup from the side of the road and another lock. "I guess I could have done a few things, but I secured it with a wire. That's all we had," she says.


ETA: Should have read thru one more page to see the photos :facepalm: Thanks for humouring me guys.

 

[meterclicks]

Doubt it. You've never driven up the ancaster hill at rush hour I assume. It's brutal. All the traffic from TO is coming home at that time. Lots of people live in Ancaster and commute to TO for work. Mother's Day would not be comparable to a Monday at rush hour. I live in the area and rive that stretch of the 403 frequently.


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I have driven that way actually. In heavy traffic and light traffic. I was not that day, which is why I said could account for more traffic than a normal Sunday.
But these dates are getting me all mixed up.

 

[JPC]

Both my Husband and my Father are left handed and use their left hand to open up all car doors.

I wonder if the left hand was being used for something requiring dexterity (restraining something or pulling something,holding a gun, using a phone )the right would be used to open the door?

 

[Alderbrook]

The drive from Hamilton to Tillsonburg was described as being during rush hour traffic - and it would be impossible for this to have occurred on the Sunday. There was no mention of heavy traffic or any traffic issues on the drive from Kleinberg to Hamilton which definitely did happen on Mother's Day

People that live in the area know the times to avoid that stretch of the 403. I used to commute to a business at the bottom of the hill (we call it the hill around here but it's actually the escarpment drop off, a steep drop). Rush hour is terrible so btwn 7-9 am and 4-7:30ish I would avoid it unless it was an emerg. I personally would not avoid it at 6:30 pm on Mother's Day.


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[Tamarind]

Sorry if this was already answered, just catching up.

I always took "seal" to mean police tape, never an actual lock. Like the red tape they'd put on evidence so if that "seal" is broken, it nees to be signed by who opened it, etc...

But here I've found something:

Adam Carter Feb 10 2016 11:00 AM
The padlock was locked on the door, she says, but the door wasn't secured. "You didn't secure the trailer at that moment with another lock?" Pillay asks."I didn't have one," she answers. Pillay asks if she could have called for backup from the side of the road and another lock. "I guess I could have done a few things, but I secured it with a wire. That's all we had," she says.

So she admits it wasn't secured at the Hamilton facility ! She is saying the padlock was locked into itself but that it didnt secure the door. Interesting.

 

[Alderbrook]

I have driven that way actually. In heavy traffic and light traffic. I was not that day, which is why I said could account for more traffic than a normal Sunday.
But these dates are getting me all mixed up.

Agreed there would be more traffic possibly, but not described as rush hour IMO. I'm sure it will be reported later in the papers that it was the Monday, May 13th. Following the tweets is hard because not everything is being reported. There's also no way they could get to Ancaster from kleinburg given the times reported they left kleinburg. It's approx 45-60 mins. If they did 110 the whole way they could not be in Ancaster at the reported time the box fell out.



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[redwing7225]

So its a simple seal, not a locking seal. That padlock was obviously open or faulty. Surely a padlock that may have been used by the ones bringing trailer to Kleinburg should have been removed with gloves kept for fingerprinting. I wonder which padlock that is?

After taking a screen shot with my phone, reviewing the weld joints on DM's Cam Bar, it appears IMO, that this locking system has been fabricated by someone other than a professional company. Any enclosed trailers that I have used or seen, have a Cam Lock closure system which is used for all side doors and rear access. The Cam Bar swing hinge door lock handle typically must meet at both top and bottom at which point the cam will rotate and create the latch.
From my past experience, it is quite difficult to latch the mechanism into place and install a padlock on an enclosed trailer door without the swing handle being in the proper position within the cams on both top and bottom.
Anyone else with experience using this locking system? TIA

 

[iknowhim2]

Shannon Martin
‏@ShannonMartinTV
Like clockwork, Millard walks into court smiling. First at front row at Bosma's family, then the jury #MillardSmich

(add a bunch of words here that I'd be sent to the corner for, and then add a few more)

I look forward to the day that he is sentenced (yes, yes innocent till proven guilty and all of that bull crap inserted here) and they hopefully smile at him, before shedding tears for the loss of their loved one and our friend.

 

[Tamarind]

Nope. Hasn't been introduced into evidence. They may have stayed all night. May not have. There may be security cameras (I would think this is the case, but hasn't been introduced into evidence) Even if they didn't, it was a secure location and the doors were all sealed with Gibson's signature on them. To tamper with evidence the seals would have had to be broken or someone would have had to gain access with a chainsaw or something....and I think that would leave noticeable damage.

Yes but it wont much matter about seals now that the doors have flown open and 'broken' them anyway. !! The padlock was obviously not locked on the 403 IMHO

 

[RandomName479]

So she admits it wasn't secured at the Hamilton facility ! She is saying the padlock was locked into itself but that it didnt secure the door. Interesting.

She doesn't admit any such thing. She is speaking about what was happening once the doors flew open. Not what she witnessed in Hamilton

putting it into context....

Feb 10 2016 10:42 AM
The driver's cell was in her notebook, but she couldn't get to it while driving. This was about 6:35 p.m. in the evening.


Adam Carter

Feb 10 2016 10:43 AM
"The lock wasn't actually securing the doors closed." she says. The bar going across the back of the trailer didn't secure the doors properly, she testifies.


She says nothing about it not being secure in Hamilton, but yes, the back door was compromised during the drive from Hamilton to Tillsonburg.

 

[Tamarind]

After taking a screen shot with my phone, reviewing the weld joints on DM's Cam Bar, it appears IMO, that this locking system has been fabricated by someone other than a professional company. Any enclosed trailers that I have used or seen, have a Cam Lock closure system which is used for all side doors and rear access. The Cam Bar swing hinge door lock handle typically must meet at both top and bottom at which point the cam will rotate and create the latch.
From my past experience, it is quite difficult to latch the mechanism into place and install a padlock on an enclosed trailer door without the swing handle being in the proper position within the cams on both top and bottom.
Anyone else with experience using this locking system? TIA

Sorry I wish I could understand what you are saying. I am not an expert on latches. Any chance you post a pic to explain a little simply for me please?

 

[MsSherlock]

Yes but it wont much matter about seals now that the doors have flown open and 'broken' them anyway. !! The padlock was obviously not locked on the 403 IMHO

I think that the fact that the doors were under seal when they left the secure compound with LE escort following it, that she actually witnessed the seal being broken and resealed it once the door was secure. IMHO, that's the best that she could do. Also, I have to give her credit for leaving the box behind and staying with the tow truck until she pulled it over. By doing so it's clear that there was no opportunity for the contents of the truck to be tampered with. Much worse would have been the truck coming out of the trailer. MOO

 

[Tamarind]

She doesn't admit any such thing. She is speaking about what was happening once the doors flew open. Not what she witnessed in Hamilton

putting it into context....

Feb 10 2016 10:42 AM
The driver's cell was in her notebook, but she couldn't get to it while driving. This was about 6:35 p.m. in the evening.


Adam Carter

Feb 10 2016 10:43 AM
"The lock wasn't actually securing the doors closed." she says. The bar going across the back of the trailer didn't secure the doors properly, she testifies.


She says nothing about it not being secure in Hamilton, but yes, the back door was compromised during the drive from Hamilton to Tillsonburg.

But it was not apparently compromised from Kleinburg to Hamilton !

 

[muddy tires]

Just to clear up some confusion about the operation of the trailer door. Trailers designed to haul vehicles typically have a single ramp door. In my experience they would have 2 bar latches to secure them. Here is a short video to show how the latches work. You can see that the door will not open unless the little catch is flipped up. That would be impossible with the lock secured through the hole that is there for the purpose of locking the latch (you can see in the police picture showing the seal that the latch is properly secured).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UEKB9wPXw68" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My theory is that there must have been something wrong with the door for it to open while the latch was locked. Perhaps that is why the police found loading ramps in the trailer even though they wouldn't be necessary because the door could be used to load and unload.

By the way - the driver is completely responsible for securing the trailer and its cargo. If the door was broken, a thorough pre-trip circle check should have revealed the problem. If the cargo shifted (and we know the jeep moved in the trailer on the way back from Baja due to it not being secured properly - can't find the picture currently but it was discussed earlier in another thread) that technically is also the driver's responsibility. Although it would have been difficult in this case to verify that the cargo inside was secured since the trailer was sealed.