Bosma Murder Trial 02.23.16 - Day 13

[Kamille]

He did radiographs on the metal, as well. "I didn't recognize any patterns on it - certainly there were now dental patterns." Barlow was looking for patterns in the metal to suggest it came from a tooth.
by Adam Carter 2:08 PM

 

[Bsafe]

Well if I were a juror I'd be thinking...huh? I've been told TB's remains were found in the incinerator and Shane S sent an email saying the unit runs fine. So I'd be thinking...why isn't Shane S also on trial? :waitasec:

MOO

Exactly. In my opinion the defence have just made themselves look worse.

 

[Kamille]

You see some cracks in this tooth that likely came from heat," Barlow says.
by Adam Carter 2:10 PM

Barlows says he'd suggest the tooth didn't come from an elderly person.
by Adam Carter 2:11 PM

That's as specific as Barlow could be as to the age of the person the tooth came from.
by Adam Carter 2:11 PM

 

[NashBridges2]

so a "win" for the defense. SMH

Let's give the jury credit. They can be told to ignore it but that doesn't mean it's not nagging at them.

 

[tommyR]

Graduated in 1965 and still working! Good for him. I'm sure there is a wealth of experience behind his name.

I saw that and thought man I wasn't even born in '65 and I'm old so this guy must be .... experienced!

 

[paris_paris]

ok, what's the legit reason for having a licence plate obscuring system ? : )

407 etr

oops, not really legit lol

 

[Kamille]

Let's give the jury credit. They can be told to ignore it but that doesn't mean it's not nagging at them.

Just like the mysterious "drive shed" testimony that just went poof.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Barlow says further testing was requested on the tooth -- DNA can be recovered from the pulp tissue of the tooth. Crown Tony Leitch says we'll hear that no DNA could be recovered.
by Adam Carter 2:14 PM

The tooth dehydrates in extreme heat, Barlow says.
by Adam Carter 2:15 PM

No cross examination of the dental expert. He's excused.
by Adam Carter 2:16 PM

 

[palisadesk]

so a "win" for the defense.

No, not a "win" for either side. The statement could not have been considered evidence, and the judge would have had to so instruct the jury if not at this point, then later.

The Crown did not elicit this statement from Cook, it was volunteered and not from his examination of actual evidence, but from a photo.

The Supreme Court was unanimous in condemning admission of this sort of opinion statement, even from expert witnesses, which Cook was not:

The Supreme Court of Canada has told the country’s prosecutors that expert witnesses, including police officers, must not give opinions based on their experience.The ruling, in a major drug case, has wide implications for the prosecution of serious crimes, from high-value theft to murder, in which experts are called on to draw inferences or analyze evidence before the court. Such testimony has been linked to wrongful convictions, and the court was unanimous in trying to call a halt to opinion it feels has been disguised as fact.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...prosecution-of-drug-offences/article16995191/

A lengthier discussion can be seen at the site I linked to earlier.

But it is not a "win" for the defense because it does not have anything to do with whether or not either accused is responsible for the killing of Tim Bosma. They Crown will introduce DNA evidence to show it was Bosma's remains found in the incinerator. It will not affect the defense case, relative to the Bosma charges, whether the incinerator was used before or no.

But if supposed "evidence" not allowed by law is introduced, it can be grounds for a mistrial. We don't want that. Good on the judge for his explanation to the jury. Conscientious jurors take the judge's charges very seriously, as they should. The judge is their expert on the law, the jury is the trier of fact, being those facts presented under oath to the court.

 

[Kamille]

The next witness is John Fernandes. The Crown wants to qualify him as an expert in forensic pathology.
by Adam Carter 2:18 PM

He's been a doctor since 1982.
by Adam Carter 2:19 PM

This kind of pathology focuses on determining cause of death by examining a corpse.
by Adam Carter 2:22 PM

Fernandes oversees all the medical laboratory sites in Hamilton through St. Joe's and Hamilton Health Sciences. He has done over 100 homicide autopsies.
by Adam Carter 2:23 PM

Fernandes is qualified as an expert in forensic pathology.
by Adam Carter 2:25 PM

 

[Kamille]

The pathologist tries to examine how someone has died from an autopsy. But in this case, they only had skeletal remains.
by Adam Carter 2:27 PM

 

[Kamille]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
Allegation of wrongdoing in forensic pathology cases. Looking for injury and other conditions that contribute to death.

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
He will refer to his report on this case. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
He is trying to determine cause of death. Helped in this case by forensic anthropologist and forensic dentist. Also DNA scientists.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 54s54 seconds ago
A coroner's warrant is issued to compel detailed examination on deceased.

 

[Kamille]

In this case, scientists and doctors had to rely on some history provided by the police.
by Adam Carter 2:31 PM

On the coroner's warrant it said that human bones were found in an incinerator. Much of the remains were in a "severe, post mortem altered state."
by Adam Carter 2:32 PM

The detectives told Fernandes about Bosma and the circumstances of his disappearance.
by Adam Carter 2:32 PM

 

[Kamille]

"We took quite involved steps to try to achieve identification," Fernandes says. He knew Bosma was of average stature and was 34 when he vanished. "The remains that I received were weighed by me, and they totalled 503 grams. Most of the remains were ashes."
by Adam Carter 2:33 PM

Because of this, most of the identification avenues the doctors had were limited, Fernandes says. No fingerprints, the dental comparison didn't work, and then there were the attempts to extract DNA.
by Adam Carter 2:34 PM

 

[Kamille]

"Unfortunately with cremated remains, DNA is very rapidly and completely destroyed," Fernandes says. The tissue was too damaged. "We can never retrieve DNA from ashes."
by Adam Carter 2:36 PM

They tried two different avenues, but no DNA could be found from the remains found in The Eliminator.
by Adam Carter 2:37 PM

 

[Kamille]

The largest bone that was found was "nearly intact," but still extremely damaged, Fernandes says.
by Adam Carter 2:39 PM

Crown Tony Leitch asking if pre-death injuries can be found in bone fragments. Fernandes says yes, depending on the injury.
by Adam Carter 2:40 PM

 

[Kamille]

Fernandes says that the bone remains weren't sufficient to determine if a shooting happened in this case.
by Adam Carter 2:41 PM

The doctors looked for metal - like from a prosthetic joint - because they would hold up to fire. But none were found in x-rays. No metal was found except for small fragments.
by Adam Carter 2:42 PM

 

[Kamille]

"Were you able to determine at any time who you had on the autopsy table?" Crown Tony Leitch says. "In this case, all efforts failed," Fernandes says. "At the end of the day ... the most I can come up with is these are human remains."
by Adam Carter 2:44 PM

They have reached a level of "presumed identity for Bosma," he says -- based on the police investigation.
by Adam Carter 2:44 PM

"I cannot tell the cause of death. It wasn't ascertained," Fernandes says.
by Adam Carter 2:45 PM

No cross examination. Fernandes is excused.
by Adam Carter 2:45 PM

 

[Avvocato]

I don't see the purposes of these past two witnesses for the prosecution. They provided nothing. If anything I'm surprised that the witness was allowed to say that they presume it was TB based on th police investigation, and that there we no objections to that statement. So far there is nothing putting TB in that incinerator.

 

[Kamille]

Now afternoon recess for 20 mins.
by Adam Carter 2:46 PM

Really? :waiting: