Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[Ontario Mom]

I have absolutely no opinion on "Pacific" except, I'm pretty sure it's a lot warmer there today than it is in southern Ontario. :hills:

 

[RandomName479]

I agree. But he is connected to bigger players.

How do you know this? From the Crown's opening statement, the most damning evidence against MS seems to be the statements of MM. If he was a big player in the drug/gang world, don't you think she would either be scared to testify and/or under protective custody? MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

How do you know this? From the Crown's opening statement, the most damning evidence against MS seems to be the statements of MM. If he was a big player in the drug/gang world, don't you think she would either be scared to testify and/or under protective custody? MOO

Yep. And LE would have uncovered those connections during their investigation. So far, we haven't heard anything about any of that.

 

[SnooperDuper]

How do you know this? From the Crown's opening statement, the most damning evidence against MS seems to be the statements of MM. If he was a big player in the drug/gang world, don't you think she would either be scared to testify and/or under protective custody? MOO

That's a very good point!

 

[Gumshew]

How do you know this? From the Crown's opening statement, the most damning evidence against MS seems to be the statements of MM. If he was a big player in the drug/gang world, don't you think she would either be scared to testify and/or under protective custody? MOO

I wrote that he is connected to bigger players, not that he is a big player. I don't know anything, it's all speculation, just like everyone else on here speculates.

I am also waiting for more to be revealed as the trial continues. Giving up info that incriminates gang members doesn't discount that DM is 100% guilty of murder. But it might save his butt from getting hurt or killed in prison if he's made a deal with LE. Just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.

Also, if MM is not gang involved, I don't think she would have anything to worry about.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don't know, if my ex-boyfriend was connected to big time gang/drug people AND was on trial for murder, I'd be pretty stinking scared to testify. But that's just me...

 

[Tamarind]

Maybe writing Pacific on his shoes is about as meaningful as writing S8tan on underpasses? Maybe it's just something a bored kid does for attention.

Although honestly, why that word then?

It seems to send out a certain mindset that is not very mature IMO. Maybe not a member of gangland but with a gangland mentality? Who knows...

 

[Tamarind]

I would think that LE are well aware of gang symbols, tats, double meanings. They are well aware of gang activity. That's why they will take note of your tattoos if you are stopped by them. US and Canadian LE have a database of all types of gang tats.

It's well known that a person with affiliation will not usually talk, because homies don't take snitching lightly, and if you do, henceforth you will be unsafe in prison or if let out into the streets again.

I agree with what you say about the 'snitching' mentality on the streets. LE do often get their interpretations wrong though, with regard to different things.jmo

 

[Tamarind]

Ugh, that is tough on the B family. I'm not so sure that I could sit that close to these monsters and behave!!!!

They could always sit further back IMHO. The accused don't have a choice where they sit from what I can tell. JMO. Not to sound insensitive but I wouldn't be sitting at the front. I think I would prefer to be at home or in a separate area away from the press. Again MOO

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I have absolutely no opinion on "Pacific" except, I'm pretty sure it's a lot warmer there today than it is in southern Ontario. :hills:

Yes, yes, maybe you're on to something....it's where he intends to go after the trial! Remember all those Disney promotions after Superbowl and World Series wins, when the players were asked what they are going to do now that they've won? "I'm going to Disney World!".

Well this is just MS's version of that.

Glad we solved that and can put this issue to bed.:facepalm:

 

[Juballee]

As I said in my last post, they are not sitting in the box. They are almost right in front of the journalist area and Bosma family. When they come into the courtroom, they are often standing at the table speaking with their counsel. It's not like they're being rushed to their seats and forced to sit down. They can stand there, step away from their table etc until the Judge comes in. If you're sitting on the side near the door, they exit just a couple feet in front of you. Lots and lots of views to see absolutely every article of clothing either of them are wearing, as it is for them to see the entire courtroom. MOO

Thanks for this, I saw it after I had posted my questions.

 

[Tamarind]

In my opinion, DM is well aware of the Norteno gang and who belongs, and who associates--- DM, MS, they all chilled together with these members from time to time. I think it may be that MS is withholding info which may help DM, but incriminates gang member/s. If you snitch, you have a scarlet letter branded on you(not literally), "S" for snitch, and you will become a target for every angry homie on the streets or in prison. It's also my opinion that DM has snitched.

I agree with loyalty to a maximum degree, but if someone were trying to stitch me up I would become that 'snitch'.... depending on the circumstances would depend who I snitched to. But I certainly would not be languishing in jail to save face in the hood. JMO. Especially when it wasn't my particular hood..

 

[Alethea Dice]

The jury will likely be instructed by the Judge regarding evidence of post-offence conduct (aka "consciousness of guilt"). IMO, DM did so much more by way of post-offence conduct than MS. By comparison, the only thing we know that MS did post-offence to cover up the crime was retrieve the toolbox at DM's instruction and dispense with the gun (unless assistance with incineration is considered post-offence as opposed to being part of the crime itself).

Here's a good read on the topic by the former president of the Ontario Bar Association:

http://jmortonmusings.blogspot.ca/2010/10/consciousness-of-guilt-label-should-be.html

Did DM really do more? IIRC, from the cell phone testimony, MS was going back and forth with DM pretty constantly right up until CN took over to help move the truck to MB's. Then he continued on after DM's arrest to dispose of the gun.

(Slowly catching up here.)

 

[Tealgrove]

This is simply MOO.

I do not believe that MS would be permitted to have PACIFIC written on his shoes if it in any way was interpreted to be a threat. LE is not stupid, the Crown is not stupid and the Prison Guards are certainly not stupid. MS would not be permitted to wear "colours" in court if he was affiliated with any gangs in, or out, of prison.

PACIFIC means something but I would be very surprised if those involved in the trial would tolerate a perceived threat to the co-accused or those who are witnesses.

Clearly it means something to Smich but I can't wrap my head around the other theories regarding intimidation. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

In my opinion, " Pacific " probably is a reference to the Pacific Drug Cartel. He may have been small-time, but MS was dealing in drugs, and using them. I think the message MS is sending DM is that he has gangland connections that reach even into a prison, and if he tries to put everything about the murder on MS, as many of us think might be DM's defence ( his lawyer keeps pointing out that he had things out in the open, not trying to hide things, like the truck in his hangar, etc>) then some form of gangland revenge could end DM's life even in prison, or at least make it far more difficult than expected.

I have always felt that DM has had a reason to be in solitary/segregation. Sometimes wealthy people are separated to avoid being extorted for canteen from what I hear. But I'm not so sure thats the main reason.

 

[flipflop]

They could always sit further back IMHO. The accused don't have a choice where they sit from what I can tell. JMO. Not to sound insensitive but I wouldn't be sitting at the front. I think I would prefer to be at home or in a separate area away from the press. Again MOO

I understand why family would want to be present. I don't think it matters what row they are in, being in the same room with 2 monsters that allegedly murdered your husband/son/brother would be bad enough. JMO My thoughts and prayers continue for the Bosma family throughout this trial.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I have always felt that DM has had a reason to be in solitary/segregation. Sometimes wealthy people are separated to avoid being extorted for canteen from what I hear. But I'm not so sure thats the main reason.

DM is a target. A lot of people in prison have lived hard lives, come from difficult homes...for them to see someone who lived life on easy street in the general population, well, a lot of people would like to teach him a lesson about life...specifically about the kind of lives they've lived.

 

[Tamarind]

This is simply MOO.

I do not believe that MS would be permitted to have PACIFIC written on his shoes if it in any way was interpreted to be a threat. LE is not stupid, the Crown is not stupid and the Prison Guards are certainly not stupid. MS would not be permitted to wear "colours" in court if he was affiliated with any gangs in, or out, of prison.

PACIFIC means something but I would be very surprised if those involved in the trial would tolerate a perceived threat to the co-accused or those who are witnesses.

Clearly it means something to Smich but I can't wrap my head around the other theories regarding intimidation. JMO

How would anyone know what it means to be able to determine it was a threat? LE,Crown and Prison Guards are not mind readers and as far as I can tell, we would need to have that capability to know something that is at this point still somewhere deep inside the mind of MS.

Hand signs also mean something but we can't prevent those in court either as we have know idea when its about to occur. JMHO

 

[Juballee]

Solitary. I believe he has a plain clothes LE escort to trial. He would not be safe in the general prison population.

Why is it he wouldn't be safe in general population again?

I can see in the beginning it being because it was his first experience with jail and he was too new to mix in with hardened criminals, but surely by now he has become institutionalized enough to figure out how things work. People seem to think he is guilty of killing 3 people now, so how soft can he be that he needs to be segregated for his own protection?

I also thought it could be because he was too rich, that it would make him a target for the criminals to take advantage of him, but people here seem to think that he has or had no money, and I would think that the penal system would have sorted this out by now.

I guess the third thought could have something to do with needing to be protected from a particular gang in prison, but I don't think we have had any solid clues as to why DM has spent the whole time in solitary when MS was in and out of population yet. I am curious though.

Just my opinion.

 

[Tamarind]

DM is a target. A lot of people in prison have lived hard lives, come from difficult homes...for them to see someone who lived life on easy street in the general population, well, a lot of people would like to teach him a lesson about life...specifically about the kind of lives they've lived.

Yes there are many bullies in jails from what I can tell. Jealousy brings out the worst in people it's true. I think there are afew reasons DM is in solitary, and if it's true he has a plain clothed escort to the courthouse then I find it even more true that he not safe in jail. JMO