Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...

[FDLibra]

That is one vile woman. I can see her gleefully rubbing her hands together, with dollar signs in her eyes. I hope that she doesn't try to exploit his journey.

ITA. Kris Jenner is too wrapped up in herself. I proudly admit I've never seen the Kartrashion's "reality" program.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

For me, it has long been obvious that Bruce was transitioning. I came across a very interesting and insightful article about a once famous male helicopter pilot/reporter who transitioned later in life and how he dealt with it. I found it to be an extremely fascinating read. http://www.lamag.com/longform/becoming-zoey-tur/?src=longreads

Zoey Tur is on CNN right now. First transgender TV news reporter.

 

[SStarr33]

That is one vile woman. I can see her gleefully rubbing her hands together, with dollar signs in her eyes. I hope that she doesn't try to exploit his journey.

Sounds like he is exploiting it himself. He has an interview lined up with Diane Sawyer and his new name is going to be Kaitlin or Caitlin.

 

[katydid23]

Sounds like he is exploiting it himself. He has an interview lined up with Diane Sawyer and his new name is going to be Kaitlin or Caitlin.

I don't think it is fair to use the term 'exploitation' when a person is selling their own personal story. If someone else was selling it, I would agree. But I think Bruce has every right to tell his own story, without it being branded as exploitation. JMO

 

[SStarr33]

I don't think it is fair to use the term 'exploitation' when a person is selling their own personal story. If someone else was selling it, I would agree. But I think Bruce has every right to tell his own story, without it being branded as exploitation. JMO

IMO, he is doing the Kardashian thing. Call it what you want.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Strangely enough, I see Bruce Jenner about 3 mornings a week. He is a regular at my local Starbucks, where I like to sit and play on my laptop. [Since my husband retired and works from home, I found the need to go find my own 'office.' lol]

One thing I can say for Bruce, EVERYONE loves him here. He is on a first name basis with the baristas, and has long personal talks with many of them, about their lives. I have a lot of respect for him after seeing him for the past 2 years, treating everyone so kindly and respectfully. He talks a lot about his flying toys because he flies them near here somewhere. And he gets so excited about it and so animated and enthusiastic.

I truly detest Kris so seeing Bruce happy and enthusiastic makes me very happy too.

Thank you for putting this all in perspective for us. At the end of the day he is just another person doing their best to find their way in this world. Just like all of us. I think his role on earth as a celebrity is to help us all learn tolerance, and acceptance. Never an easy task for humans....

 

[IzzyBlanche]

IMO, he is doing the Kardashian thing. Call it what you want.

Not necessarily. Unlike the Kardashians who are famous only for being famous, Bruce was famous as an athlete long before "Kardashian" became a household word.

Perhaps he feels he owes his loyal fans from those days, who admired him for his seriously manly athletic feats, a candid explanation of why he is renouncing his manliness now.

 

[SStarr33]

Not necessarily. Unlike the Kardashians who are famous only for being famous, Bruce was famous as an athlete long before "Kardashian" became a household word.

Perhaps he feels he owes his loyal fans from those days, who admired him for his seriously manly athletic feats, a candid explanation of why he is renouncing his manliness now.

He's planning on calling himself Kaitlyn or Caitlin.
Nuff said

 

[gitana1]

I'm not an expert and I don't even know what PEDs are. But I've never heard a transsexual claim that hormones or drugs changed his psychological sex.

\

Have we ever had a transexual who took PEDs? (performance enhancing drugs)

I know of one. I watched a documentary about the East German regime of using performance enhancing drugs on their young athletes, without telling them. Several of the women grew to have very masculine appearances and one transitioned to a man and said the drugs caused the change in how he perceived his gender.

That wouldn't be the case here though because PEDs tend to have masculizing effects not feminizing ones.

I hope Bruce finds his way as well. Being happy. My question of any man transgendered to a woman (and a woman to a man) what about the Y an X chromosome? I guess my mind works more towards the biological rather than the psychological. I would truly like to hear from the transgendered community.

There are women who are fully female, with fully female sex organs, reproductive system, breasts, appearance, everything, who are chromosomally male and vice versa. It is a spectrum of diversity I think with no one factor determining anything, probably. I also think trans persons fall into this spectrum but their brains were affected rather than their bodies.

All fetuses start out as female BTW and then some transform into male fetuses. Maybe sometimes there are differences in the process. http://www.newscientist.com/article...ome-sheds-light-on-maleness.html#.VNREkyztvTo

I occasionally would see the Kardashian shows on TV at the fitness center. Bruce always seemed like the only one who was normal. He seemed to have strong feelings about fairness, kindness, work ethic, etc. More common sense than all of the other family members combined.

The only clip I;ve seen of the show was of Bruce trying to get his little girl (at the time, not sure which), to stop doing a pole dance with a pole these people had in their room for some reason. He ended up carrying her out of the room and away from her older sisters who had been laughing about it. He seemed to be trying to prevent the girls from acting inappropriately for their ages but with that bunch around them...

It was pretty obvious that no regular man was going to get mani pedis... wear nail polish, wear make up, wear a bra... etc.
If you've seen the headlines for the last several months it was only a matter of time. :twocents:

And the larynx shave is pretty telling.

I'm with you on this, seems like late in the game to be making such a drastic change.
I'm all for being whoever you feel you are, but for me personally, I would always choose to live in the body I was born in. Inside that body is you. Surgical changes just seem wrong to me, I would never feel comfortable with it. To each his own. These days, you can find someone who will go for whoever you are.
All jmo.
I also wonder though, like many who go thru these changes, when he becomes a woman, will he be gay, and want a relationship with another woman? That always seems odd to me too.

Their sexual identity would remain the same as it always was. However, some trans persons hid their sexual identity and reveal it when they transition.

Many many trans MTF transition later in life due possibly to finally being mature enough to break past societal edicts, familial disapproval, etc. Some also simply can't withstand the sadness of continuing to pretend to be someone they're not, anymore. So they finally come out. Also, our culture has changed a lot and I think now many feel more comfortable being themselves.

Finally, our bodies do not determine who we are. You said you aren't comfortable with the thought of altering one's body you're born with because inside that body is you. Yeah, inside. Not out. People lose limbs or have transfiguring accidents. The body can change in many ways yet the person can remain the same.

It appears that Bruce is just changing his/her appearance to match his/her identity.

Me too at the wondering, does this mean he/she is a lesbian? Will she like men? I'm confused.

I think she'd continue to like women if she always did. Transitioning doesn't change that. But if she was also hiding her sexual identity, than maybe. We'll see.

I work closely with the LGBT youth in my area. I have met several people who have transitioned.
I am guessing that if you hated your body... and wanted to mutilate your private parts... you might feel differently.
Even younger kids have been known to literally try and "cut it off" because it didn't belong there.

It isn't about finding someone to go for whoever you are... it's about being who you are.
If you grew up constantly feeling like you were a woman and hating your body... that would take it's toll after 6 decades.
Perhaps he doesn't want to live his last few decades hating himself and the body he was born into?
People who strongly believe they were born into the wrong body will often commit suicide rather than go through a transition.
I am personally just grateful that Bruce had the courage to make this change rather than just killing himself. :twocents:

There are quite a few good documentaries about transitioning that are rather compelling and emotional.
You can't say what you would do, since you can't understand unless you've been there.
*I* can't say what I can do since I haven't been there. But I've seen the struggle of those who have.
I suggest people who think THEY would NEVER do that, do some research on the subject. :twocents:

Here are some starting points:

This girl is unbelievably amazing.

https://www.facebook.com/Jazztrans


Transgender at 11: Listening to Jazz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJw3s85EcxM


I Am Jazz - A Family In Transition (Part 2 and 3 will be on the right.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wh6NecfMiE


Living a Transgender Childhood Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkshgwzGEhg


Real Life: Transgender Children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0BmtInLGt8

I LOOOOOOOOVE JAZZZZ! Such a cool kid and such a perfect family. I've been following her story for years. She's a doll. And she's the face of a new generation of kids who don't have to develop hated secondary sex characterisics of the sex they do not identify with. Such a difference:



http://www.news.com.au/world/brekki...er-children-like-herself/story-fndir2ev-12271

http://galleryhip.com/jazz-transgender-instagram.html

 

[IzzyBlanche]

He's planning on calling himself Kaitlyn or Caitlin.
Nuff said

I hadn't heard that. If so then yeah, suspicious.

I know I heard on drive-time radio that he was planning on calling himself Melinda.

ETA: Yeah yeah I know drive-time radio isn't the most reliable of sources but they sounded legit and for the life of me I can't figure out what the joke would be on the name "Melinda."

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Wow cool, searching around for Bruce and Melinda, i found this, which even used my own words. BBM for focus:

"This is why, even all these years after the Montreal Olympics, Bruce Jenner's position as a transgender athlete matters. People have been quick to dismiss this as another Kardashian reality TV sideshow—another Christmas ham-shaped blip à la Kim's butt breaking the internet, or speculation over what the hell Kylie Jenner is doing to her lips, or who Khloe is seeing. But it's not the same. Those things are trivialities out of the Kardashian news firehose, a porous stream of entertainment news that makes no difference in real people's lives. Bruce Jenner transitioning from male to female would be something very different.

This is not just a person who's famous for being famous. This is someone who has a gold medal from the 1976 Olympics and another from the 1975 Pan-Am Games; is enshrined in more Halls of Fame than you can count; and at one time had a claim to being, just as the marketing line said, the world's greatest athlete.

Perhaps Bruce Jenner, in a highly visible position, can prompt not just reexaminations of the prejudices that are so harmful to transgender people, but of those that lock athletes into prescribed identities; perhaps not. Perhaps this story will be treated with respect and human kindness, and perhaps it will be treated as a sideshow. We don't know. But it's not one to be casually dismissed, and it's not one to think of without considering a time, not that long past, when Bruce Jenner was everyone's idea of what an American boy was supposed to be.

http://deadspin.com/bruce-jenner-is-on-the-verge-of-another-sports-mileston-1684038013

 

[MsFacetious]

I think we will probably learn that Bruce knew this a long time ago.
That he likely considered suicide over it and suffered depression, self esteem issues and self loathing over it.
That he knew when he married but he was trying to be "normal" and fit in.

That he had to reach a point where he did not care what other people thought of him, before he could come out.
I've heard it all many times and I think we will likely hear much of the same things from Bruce.
I think it will be a rather emotional interview and will likely be a shock for Kris.

Gitana - You will love Josie as well. She is in the last two documentaries I posted.
It is amazing to me how many of these kids look better now.
Nobody would know that Josie or Jazz wasn't born female. They are gorgeous. :dunno:

It's almost like that is who they were MEANT to be all along?
They are SO lucky that they ended up in the families they did! :twocents:

 

[chasing.halos]

If what I've read is true, he's felt this way for decades. All I can say is, how horrible for him, if that is the case. He must have felt so conflicted. Good for him for being true to himself.

This is how I feel too. I just cannot imagine how difficult that would be! To live a life not true to himself. I really wish him peace in his transition.

Also if they don't title the documentary "TransJenner" I am gonna be disappointed.

(Couldn't help myself, sorry lol)

 

[MsFacetious]

This is how I feel too. I just cannot imagine how difficult that would be! To live a life not true to himself. I really wish him peace in his transition.

Also if they don't title the documentary "TransJenner" I am gonna be disappointed.

(Couldn't help myself, sorry lol)

It's perfect.
Kind of like "Transparent."
Hopefully they will call it that. :seeya:

 

[Montjoy]

I have to say that I'm a bit offended by the discussion about how attractive (or more to the point, and with respect of more of the posters who have expressed an opinion) or unattractive s/he is as a woman. Give me a break. If someone is so psychologically (di)stressed that he thinks that he must become a woman, does it become somehow appropriate to critique how s/he looks? I mean, we generally give folks a pass on how they look when we talk about them here. Or I believe that the ethos of Websleuths suggests that we should.

I forget the expression, but there is one that goes something like 'there is a lid for every pot'. I really don't think that there is anyone who will read this that understands the struggle that he must have endured to become, at one point, deservedly, the world's greatest athlete, in the most excruciating competition that you may not even imagine. I've been kind of lucky in the ol' genes and social status departments, and I've dated some really lovely ladies (the sort of stuff I've sometimes almost wished to brag about, but I also think that women are, in general, exquisite), I would still be totally enthralled by meeting Bruce Jenner (though it wouldn't go past that).

 

[newone]

I have to say that I'm a bit offended by the discussion about how attractive (or more to the point, and with respect of more of the posters who have expressed an opinion) or unattractive s/he is as a woman. Give me a break. If someone is so psychologically (di)stressed that he thinks that he must become a woman, does it become somehow appropriate to critique how s/he looks? I mean, we generally give folks a pass on how they look when we talk about them here. Or I believe that the ethos of Websleuths suggests that we should.

I forget the expression, but there is one that goes something like 'there is a lid for every pot'. I really don't think that there is anyone who will read this that understands the struggle that he must have endured to become, at one point, deservedly, the world's greatest athlete, in the most excruciating competition that you may not even imagine. I've been kind of lucky in the ol' genes and social status departments, and I've dated some really lovely ladies (the sort of stuff I've sometimes almost wished to brag about, but I also think that women are, in general, exquisite), I would still be totally enthralled by meeting Bruce Jenner (though it wouldn't go past that).

you raise excellent points especially about giving credit where credit is due for exceptional sports abilities.

I recall a few years ago the absolute hell a sprinter had to endure while the Olympic committee had to decide the definition of female with regard to a particular female athlete from South Africa

was the concern based on appearance or ability?

"In March 2010 she was denied the opportunity to compete in the local Yellow Pages Series V Track and Field event in Stellenbosch, South Africa, because the IAAF had yet to release its findings from her gender test.[37]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

 

[Catmommy]

Who cares who he/she will date? Who cares what he/she will look like? The pure torture anyone who feels like they've been born in the wrong body must live with has to be a horror and tragedy. Being true to oneself, even when others mock, laugh or turn their backs, is the only way to inner peace and I wish Bruce/Caitlyn/Kaitlyn nothing but peace if not happiness. Transgendering does NOT take away anyone's accomplishments, it actually reveals that they were stronger than we ever guessed.

 

[Tulessa]

I have to say that I'm a bit offended by the discussion about how attractive (or more to the point, and with respect of more of the posters who have expressed an opinion) or unattractive s/he is as a woman. Give me a break. If someone is so psychologically (di)stressed that he thinks that he must become a woman, does it become somehow appropriate to critique how s/he looks? I mean, we generally give folks a pass on how they look when we talk about them here. Or I believe that the ethos of Websleuths suggests that we should.

I forget the expression, but there is one that goes something like 'there is a lid for every pot'. I really don't think that there is anyone who will read this that understands the struggle that he must have endured to become, at one point, deservedly, the world's greatest athlete, in the most excruciating competition that you may not even imagine. I've been kind of lucky in the ol' genes and social status departments, and I've dated some really lovely ladies (the sort of stuff I've sometimes almost wished to brag about, but I also think that women are, in general, exquisite), I would still be totally enthralled by meeting Bruce Jenner (though it wouldn't go past that).

Love it MJ! That's deep.

 

[Tulessa]

I have to say that I'm a bit offended by the discussion about how attractive (or more to the point, and with respect of more of the posters who have expressed an opinion) or unattractive s/he is as a woman. Give me a break. If someone is so psychologically (di)stressed that he thinks that he must become a woman, does it become somehow appropriate to critique how s/he looks? I mean, we generally give folks a pass on how they look when we talk about them here. Or I believe that the ethos of Websleuths suggests that we should.

I forget the expression, but there is one that goes something like 'there is a lid for every pot'. I really don't think that there is anyone who will read this that understands the struggle that he must have endured to become, at one point, deservedly, the world's greatest athlete, in the most excruciating competition that you may not even imagine. I've been kind of lucky in the ol' genes and social status departments, and I've dated some really lovely ladies (the sort of stuff I've sometimes almost wished to brag about, but I also think that women are, in general, exquisite), I would still be totally enthralled by meeting Bruce Jenner (though it wouldn't go past that).

Double post.

 

[rob]

He's planning on calling himself Kaitlyn or Caitlin.
Nuff said

I also read that he's looking into doing a reality show about 'his transition'. Surely no one would go this far for a show. Maybe he's just looking to make the most of it. I guess my problem is, I can think of no reason that I would make a show about my personal life (or for that matter, watch one that is on tv)

I will always be convinced Kim just married that Humphries guy for the show, then put the dump on him. His life didn't matter to her, I'm just thankful that a child was not born out of it.