GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[Linda7NJ]

schoolwork? He should not be getting schoolwork....nor should he get exercise.

Why not?


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[vasportsmom]

schoolwork? He should not be getting schoolwork....nor should he get exercise.

What? This is a 12 year old child and of course he should be getting schoolwork and exercise! Even the worst of the worst are generally allowed to take classes and have an hour or so a day exercise time. IF has not been convicted of a thing and you believe he should have less rights than those that have? Seriously? You are aware that even if convicted he will be released at 25 right? Would you have him released with nothing more than a 5th grade education?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

schoolwork? He should not be getting schoolwork....nor should he get exercise.

Unless they change the mandatory education law, he should be getting his schoolwork. And an hour or so of exercise each day for an "accused 12-year old" in a cell is simply humane. Even convicted, adult murderers get that.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

WARNINGS have been posted in this thread that the Idaho family is off the table. I have no idea why posters think the facebook and/or other information should be posted here, but I will start issuing TOs from this point on for any poster that again posts info on the Id family.

Salem

This is murky to me, Salem, and I need clarification (maybe others do, too?). I posted about and/or linked to an MSM article (not Facebook) that mentioned several F-family court cases in the past year, in response to updates, posts, and questions in here about child support issues and current court news. Posted without any minor names and only adult initials (and no Id names or initials). So are you saying the whole child support issue is off the table, or just the Id family is off the table, or...??

 

[Elley Mae]

When a home becomes a crime scene, the others who live there generally end up living in hotels/motels, eat out, and have to drive a lot. How long this takes will vary depending on the crime. Knowing this I wanted to donate a gas card. So I asked someone who knows the family if this is something that they could use. "Oh no no no, cash only and sent it to the bank in Lindon!" Wow ok, so I called Lindon bank and find out I need a subpoena to get name of who opened the account. That's fine but I had no idea what the funds were really for. That is my experience with donating to this situation.

bbm


bump

 

[menmo]

If IF had stabbed a little girl who was not related to him 21x, do you think more people would blame the parents? I think about how whenever I hear about a child or teenager doing something bad, people always go after the parents. If you hear about a 15-year-old girl who does coke, are you going to think the parents must be pretty crappy? Probably. Are people reluctant to put any blame on the parents in this case due to the fact that their daughter was also murdered? If IF had killed an 8-year-old neighbor girl, would the reaction towards the parents be even worse?

I know that sometimes kids with everything going for them, a good family, a good home environment, no divorce between their parents, lots of friends, etc. make some really bad decisions that have made me gasp. So to answer you better if I hear about a 15 year old girl that does coke I am not going to think her parents are crappy, unless there is more than one reason to believe they haven't been the best for her. That said, I'm far from perfect.

schoolwork? He should not be getting schoolwork....nor should he get exercise.

He's a kid. A boy. He's 12 years old. Even with what he's accused of I have such compassion for him.

MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I know that sometimes kids with everything going for them, a good family, a good home environment, no divorce between their parents, lots of friends, etc. make some really bad decisions that have made me gasp. So to answer you better if I hear about a 15 year old girl that does coke I am not going to think her parents are crappy, unless there is more than one reason to believe they haven't been the best for her. That said, I'm far from perfect.

He's a kid. A boy. He's 12 years old. Even with what he's accused of I have such compassion for him.

MOO

You are a far more compassionate person that I! That kid scares me. A 12 year old capable of such a horrid, vicious and repetitive stabbing of a little girl....shiver!


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[Mrs G Norris]

You are a far more compassionate person that I! That kid scares me. A 12 year old capable of such a horrid, vicious and repetitive stabbing of a little girl....shiver!


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He scares me too .. The photos of him are not normal .. He just stares blanky at nothing just in front of the lens it seems .. I know that has zero real value, but there's something way wrong.

Oh yeah .. And he also stabbed his sister 21 times and left her to die.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

From John Kennedy Investigations.

Meeting I.
At last Wednesday’s hearing I met I. Fowler for the first time, albeit only via introduction by his attorney Mark Reichel (www.reichelplesser.com). We were in court and there was no time to converse with the young man. It is difficult to get too much of a read on him, but he does look very tired. As you would expect with a 12 year old, it is difficult to determine during so brief an encounter if he fully understands everything that is going on around him. He was very quiet and reserved, but did make eye contact with everyone.
Mr. Mellen’s Statements
Now to the comments about Mr. Mellen’s statements regarding what he did and did not see on the morning of the stabbing. After carefully reviewing the limited evidence provided to this point by the police, Mr. Mellen does not live across the street from the Fowler residence, except in a fairly broad definition of that term. His address appears in the Police Reports.
Imagine that you are standing in the street facing the Fowlers’ residence. To left the road goes up hill toward central Valley Springs and the baseball fields where the Fowlers were watching the game that morning. To your right the street runs downhill in the direction of Mr. Mellen’s home. Running Mellen’s address through Google maps, Mellen’s house is at least six (6) houses downhill from the Fowler’s. In addition he has a sizable tree in the front yard.
The Fowlers would have returned to their house that morning from the opposite direction. After coming over the apex of the road, they would have almost immediately turned into their driveway. The odds seem very small that anyone living at least six houses down the street would have noticed them arriving. It should be pointed out that in this neighborhood the lots are large and the homes are not wedged up against each other. The point is the Fowlers did not go past Mellens’ house when they rushed home that morning.
Where were the dogs?
One neighbor I interviewed wondered where the Fowlers’ dogs were on the morning of the attack and where they have been since. This neighbor was sure the Fowlers kept two (2) dogs at the house, one of which was always tied up near the front door. That neighbor need not worry about the dogs. The Fowlers never owned any dogs while living at the house. Neighbors right around the Fowlers’ house confirmed that the previous tenants had two dogs that were treated poorly. One witness said that one of the dogs was tied up to the bumper of a truck regardless of the weather. The same neighbors confirmed that there were no dogs at that location for at least a year and half.
The Search Warrant Rumor
One member of the press asked if it was true that Mr. Fowler would not let police into the house when they arrived without a warrant. The report by the Officer who arrived first at the scene included no such claim and every subsequent report of interviews with Mr. Fowler show that he was extremely co-operative with the police.

http://johnkennedyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/fowler-case-update/

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Okay, I am confused about what is going on with Mellen's statements. Did he tell LE that the family arrived home earlier than they said? Because it seems like the investigator is saying that Mellen's house is too far away for him to have seen the family arrive home. Why is the investigator discounting Mellen's statement that he saw the family arrive home--unless Mellen is claiming that someone in the family arrived home at a different time than they claim to?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Okay, I am confused about what is going on with Mellen's statements. Did he tell LE that the family arrived home earlier than they said? Because it seems like the investigator is saying that Mellen's house is too far away for him to have seen the family arrive home. Why is the investigator discounting Mellen's statement that he saw the family arrive home--unless Mellen is claiming that someone in the family arrived home at a different time than they claim to?

IMO Mellen lied.


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[menmo]

You are a far more compassionate person that I! That kid scares me. A 12 year old capable of such a horrid, vicious and repetitive stabbing of a little girl....shiver!

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My compassion comes because he's still a child and I haven't walked in his shoes or felt his pain. Nothing but nothing gives anyone the right to do such a thing but if I is guilty of this I do hope he'll be under good psychiatric care, but I'm hoping that for the whole family after loosing beautiful Leila. I wouldn't want to walk in any of their shoes and am sorry they have to.

He scares me too .. The photos of him are not normal .. He just stares blanky at nothing just in front of the lens it seems .. I know that has zero real value, but there's something way wrong.

Oh yeah .. And he also stabbed his sister 21 times and left her to die.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I say not true. We have no idea if I is on any medication.

I know what he's accused of. I just can't help but feel bad for what I think he's gone through in his life. Does it justify what he is accused of? Absolutely not. Yet I do still feel compassion for him. Someone loves him, too.

MOO

 

[MLO]

If IF had stabbed a little girl who was not related to him 21x, do you think more people would blame the parents? I think about how whenever I hear about a child or teenager doing something bad, people always go after the parents. If you hear about a 15-year-old girl who does coke, are you going to think the parents must be pretty crappy? Probably. Are people reluctant to put any blame on the parents in this case due to the fact that their daughter was also murdered? If IF had killed an 8-year-old neighbor girl, would the reaction towards the parents be even worse?

I do think the reaction would be worse. When it is siblings I think people see it as a "family issue" and it seems easier to consider that there may be a reason for it, since they have extensive background together. There seems to be less outrage too, because the incident was targeted making us think that our own family was safe, since they were only after one person.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I do think the reaction would be worse. When it is siblings I think people see it as a "family issue" and it seems easier to consider that there may be a reason for it, since they have extensive background together. There seems to be less outrage too, because the incident was targeted making us think that our own family was safe, since they were only after one person.

Agreed. I think that there is some sentiment that at least this tragedy was kept within the family, if that makes sense? If IF had killed a neighbor, for instance, people would be more angry at the parents because they would say that due to your parenting, or the environment you raised him in, or lack of supervision, or not getting him help prior to this, etc is the reason why another family has lost their child. But I think that since IF killed his own sister, there is kind of a feeling that even if the parents could have done a better job, they have suffered the ultimate consequence.

 

[itsreenw]

Dinaslala, I've posted a couple times asking for your insight and knowledge about some things as a verified member on this thread and a friend of P's. Perhaps you didn't see my posts so I'll ask the same questions here:

This was my last post:

Does P have family in N. CA? Wondering if L&I ever had a relationship with their maternal grandparents and aunts and uncles, etc...and if her family is comforting her at this time when she certainly must need support.

Did her family attend the funeral?

Did you know her before she fell on hard times? Has B had physical custody of the kids since their split or were they living with her?

Has she shared why/who kept her from attending the funeral? Hopefully, others are not trying to make her feel like she is to blame for this.

Sorry if these questions were already asked/answered. If so, I didn't see the posts.

 

[tlcya]

Okay, I am confused about what is going on with Mellen's statements. Did he tell LE that the family arrived home earlier than they said? Because it seems like the investigator is saying that Mellen's house is too far away for him to have seen the family arrive home. Why is the investigator discounting Mellen's statement that he saw the family arrive home--unless Mellen is claiming that someone in the family arrived home at a different time than they claim to?

the neighbor alleged witness Mr. M was claiming that someone other than BF drove up in an SUV covered in blood asking him if he saw any "mexicans" because someone had just stabbed his daughter.

This account came weeks after Mr. M's initial report that he saw no one coming or going from the home during the time the crime was committed and his "german" wolves did not bark to indicate anything was going on over there.

 

[TheDuchess]

He scares me too .. The photos of him are not normal .. He just stares blanky at nothing just in front of the lens it seems .. I know that has zero real value, but there's something way wrong.

Oh yeah .. And he also stabbed his sister 21 times and left her to die.[/QUOTE]

He is "accused" of doing this. Just remember-many people have been falsely accused of horrific crimes and we have been "certain" they were the monsters-only to find out years later that they were completely innocent. This is a child who stands accused of a horrible murder and regardless of what his photos show and deserves due process and a presumption of innocence.

While I realize this is a message board and not a court of law, I really don't think that it is fair to jump to using these words, as if they are fact. JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

schoolwork? He should not be getting schoolwork....nor should he get exercise.

Wow...this sounds like a FANTASTIC idea!!! Let's keep him locked up, in a cell, all alone, with no exercise and no books until he's 25 years old and then let him out. That should really "fix" him!

I'm not even a liberal, yet know that this country doesn't treat people like this for a reason. He hasn't been convicted of anything and he is, in fact, a child.

We are all angry over the murder of a precious little girl, and this boy may well have done it. But I, for one, am glad that our society doesn't treat people, especially children, accused of crimes like animals-even if that may be what they deserve.

 

[ThinkFirst]

I can think of many things at work in this household.

Every little person should grow up under the influence of a mom and a dad. This should help keep a balance in the life of the little person. I also understand that sometimes divorced is really what is best for the little person. But too many adult who have custody think they have to find someone to fill that empty spot. (both for their need and the kids) And so begins the process of shack up honey. They bring someone into the household to act as the missing parent. When it does not work out the kids lose another parent. In so many cases, they not only lose another parent, but what they get is another sibling. If we can think about the little person's perspective, adults come and go so there is no reason to accept the next new shack up honey. I call this the revolving shack up honey. Does this sound like a situation in this case? Just to be clear a shack up honey is anyone you have not married. This includes fiancés.

Another thing that I think is really hard on little people is the constant moving from household to household. The physical home should be a sanctuary. When the adults move from one home to another it takes time for the little people to feel at home and that this is their sanctuary. Ask anyone who was raised in a military family about how they feel moving from home to home. We can understand that sometimes moving is necessary. But that doesn't make it any easier on the little people in our lives.

So what I see from info so far is that revolving sanctuary and revolving shack up honey.

How my heart goes out to all those little people in that family.

All of the adults involved in making these children should give some thought to their contribution to the misery of all these kids.

I know I'm old fashion but that does not take away the truth of what I just said.

 

[dinaslala]

Dinaslala, I've posted a couple times asking for your insight and knowledge about some things as a verified member on this thread and a friend of P's. Perhaps you didn't see my posts so I'll ask the same questions here:

This was my last post:

Does P have family in N. CA?
Yes she has a couple of family members that she is close to, but not super close by..

Wondering if L&I ever had a relationship with their maternal grandparents and aunts and uncles, etc...

Unfortunately no..her father passed away years ago and B wasnt pro active in helping them to see other family...

and if her family is comforting her at this time when she certainly must need support.
They do what they can, when they can.. thankfully.. and yes they did attend L's funeral

Did you know her before she fell on hard times?
Yes, I've known her half her life

Has B had physical custody of the kids since their split or were they living with her?
I cant say definitively..sorry

Has she shared why/who kept her from attending the funeral?
BF kept her from attending.. because he could..plain, pure and simple
IMO**As if she didn't deserve or earn the right to be there because of the living situation she could not provide for them..

As a matter of fact he still refuses to let her visit him (I) in the detention center.
And before everyone goes off about the legality of it, yes, he can do this..
We looked into it with an atty and if I could raise the money and retain her services, I would in a heartbeat. No she does'nt NEED one to change the orders but with something like this I think we all can agree it would be BEST if she did.

Hopefully, others are not trying to make her feel like she is to blame for this.
Not yet..For now it's just the hateful, condescending remarks about her "abandoning" them. **Which is UNTRUE, she left their dad.. NOT them..

Sorry if these questions were already asked/answered. If so, I didn't see the posts.

I am so sorry, I did miss the post...will do my best