GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

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Dinaslala, you are such a wonderful friend and I'm really glad that P has you. We all appreciate the fact that you are willing to hang out here with us and answer our questions. I'm so glad that you are willing to share a little bit of who P really is with us after the way that others have portrayed her. My heart goes out to her and the way that she has been treated sickens me. If there really is a hell then I feel certain there is a very special corner there for the type of person that would deny a grieving mother the right to attend her child's funeral.
 
He scares me too .. The photos of him are not normal .. He just stares blanky at nothing just in front of the lens it seems .. I know that has zero real value, but there's something way wrong.

Oh yeah .. And he also stabbed his sister 21 times and left her to die.

I believe he has killed, his eyes are completely dead when you look into them in many of his photos. Like other killers.
IMO:twocents:
 
I do note the same blankness in IF post stabbing photos. I wish I knew what his affect was prior. Did the blank stare exist before or was it only there after.
 
I do note the same blankness in IF post stabbing photos. I wish I knew what his affect was prior. Did the blank stare exist before or was it only there after.
I have seen pictures of IF prior. My opinion is that he had an intense stare before, as if really looking AT things. That look can be disconcerting to some people. His new stare is if looking THROUGH things. It looks like the same look I had on my face after my friend was murdered umpty doodle years ago. I saw the whole world in black and white, literally. There was no color in anything I looked at, and for me lasted about two weeks. I, personally, find nothing strange in his current look at all. His sister was murdered and he was there. Whether he committed the act, or did not, he is changed forever.
 
Husband says wife killed their son, then shot herself near Steamboat Springs - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

You know what makes me really sad??? There are so many people in here discussing this case against a 12 year old, yet I'm talking to myself in another thread about a mother who killed her only child, an innocent, amazing little boy, to exact revenge against her husband.

Just my two cents.

That's probably because nobody is missing in that case and the suspect is in custody. There are so many cases where we (general) feel that we have a chance of making a difference that it is hard to find time to devote to cases that are "resolved".
 
Dinaslala, you are such a wonderful friend and I'm really glad that P has you. We all appreciate the fact that you are willing to hang out here with us and answer our questions. I'm so glad that you are willing to share a little bit of who P really is with us after the way that others have portrayed her. My heart goes out to her and the way that she has been treated sickens me. If there really is a hell then I feel certain there is a very special corner there for the type of person that would deny a grieving mother the right to attend her child's funeral.

Wow ...thank you so much..
 
That's probably because nobody is missing in that case and the suspect is in custody. There are so many cases where we (general) feel that we have a chance of making a difference that it is hard to find time to devote to cases that are "resolved".

Well, no one is missing in Leila's case either-never has been anyone missing. Both cases have a suspect, also a family member, in custody. Both of the suspects are charged with the crimes, yet neither has been brought to trial yet. Both suspects have "lawyered up" and both are due their due process.

Yet, in this thread, it seems as though many are more intent on seeking justice against a 12 year old than a grown woman who is accused of killing her own son.

It just scares me that there are more people in this forum bent on revenge for IF than on the mother in the other case. :scared:
 
Husband says wife killed their son, then shot herself near Steamboat Springs - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

You know what makes me really sad??? There are so many people in here discussing this case against a 12 year old, yet I'm talking to myself in another thread about a mother who killed her only child, an innocent, amazing little boy, to exact revenge against her husband.

Just my two cents.

Shouldn't it just be sad that people aren't talking about the other case--period? I don't know what people talking about Leila's case has to do with people not talking about Asher's case.
 
Well, no one is missing in Leila's case either-never has been anyone missing. Both cases have a suspect, also a family member, in custody. Both of the suspects are charged with the crimes, yet neither has been brought to trial yet. Both suspects have "lawyered up" and both are due their due process.

Yet, in this thread, it seems as though many are more intent on seeking justice against a 12 year old than a grown woman who is accused of killing her own son.

It just scares me that there are more people in this forum bent on revenge for IF than on the mother in the other case. :scared:

Wanting someone to be convicted and go to jail...means you are bent on revenge? Does that apply to every case on WS?

I don't know why it would scare you that people are talking about the case of a murdered 8-year-old.
 
Well, no one is missing in Leila's case either-never has been anyone missing. Both cases have a suspect, also a family member, in custody. Both of the suspects are charged with the crimes, yet neither has been brought to trial yet. Both suspects have "lawyered up" and both are due their due process.

Yet, in this thread, it seems as though many are more intent on seeking justice against a 12 year old than a grown woman who is accused of killing her own son.

It just scares me that there are more people in this forum bent on revenge for IF than on the mother in the other case. :scared:

I'm not sure that is an accurate or fair assessment. In Asher's case it seems pretty clear that the right person is in custody and justice will served. In Leila's case, I don't think that everyone is convinced that the right person has been charged or, at the very least, that everyone involved has been charged.

There is also the question here of what justice really is. IF is either a deeply troubled little boy that needs help or he's a budding sociopath but either way he is walking free by 25 and that terrifies many posters. Others are troubled by the fact that he could be thrown behind bars for 13 years, not receive the treatment that he needs and then walk out far worse off than he went in.

There is no denying the sensationalism of a 12 year being charged and all the family drama is also a draw. That doesn't mean that nobody cares about Asher though. A beautiful little boy is gone and a father is devastated but you can only follow so many cases at a time before it all becomes too much and I think most of us tend to devote our time to those threads where we feel we can make the most difference.

ETA: It also makes a difference that many people were invested in this case long before IF was charged and now we want to see it through.
 
I'm not sure that is an accurate or fair assessment. In Asher's case it seems pretty clear that the right person is in custody and justice will served. In Leila's case, I don't think that everyone is convinced that the right person has been charged or, at the very least, that everyone involved has been charged.

There is also the question here of what justice really is. IF is either a deeply troubled little boy that needs help or he's a budding sociopath but either way he is walking free by 25 and that terrifies many posters. Others are troubled by the fact that he could be thrown behind bars for 13 years, not receive the treatment that he needs and then walk out far worse off than he went in.

There is no denying the sensationalism of a 12 year being charged and all the family drama is also a draw. That doesn't mean that nobody cares about Asher though. A beautiful little boy is gone and a father is devastated but you can only follow so many cases at a time before it all becomes too much and I think most of us tend to devote our time to those threads where we feel we can make the most difference.

ETA: It also makes a difference that many people were invested in this case long before IF was charged and now we want to see it through.

OK...I suppose I can see your assessment...but it just strikes me as troubling that not just this forum, but the media in general really runs with stories like this because they are so sensational. Yes-many were invested in the case before we knew the suspect was the boy, so that also adds to the fervor I suppose.

I guess it is just a reflection on my part and I guess the sadness I feel that some stories are just not covered as much as others, I suppose. I guess as the mother of 2 young boys and an 8 year old girl, perhaps I am drawn more to the stories like these. Perhaps as a mother myself, I am more outraged at how a mother can kill her own precious child and also more drawn to being sympathetic toward IF as well. I don't know him enough to be convinced he is evil, or even if he did the crime. Either way, at this point, I see him as a troubled soul who desperately needs someone's help as soon as possible.

There are always disparities in coverage of crimes, based upon many things, such as the socioeconomic statuses of the parties involved, race, sex, even good looks play a huge part. Just look at Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, etc... All of the parties in those cases intrigued us because they were good looking, seemingly nice, financially stable people, etc... Cases where juveniles are accused is also sensational.

And just for the record, I wasn't referring to you specifically in any of my posts, but there has been several posts along the way in this thread that seem to indicate we should throw this kid in a cell and throw away the key, or even give him the death penalty. That is the kind of stuff that sends me into an even more protective state of a child.
 
OK...I suppose I can see your assessment...but it just strikes me as troubling that not just this forum, but the media in general really runs with stories like this because they are so sensational. Yes-many were invested in the case before we knew the suspect was the boy, so that also adds to the fervor I suppose.

I guess it is just a reflection on my part and I guess the sadness I feel that some stories are just not covered as much as others, I suppose. I guess as the mother of 2 young boys and an 8 year old girl, perhaps I am drawn more to the stories like these. Perhaps as a mother myself, I am more outraged at how a mother can kill her own precious child and also more drawn to being sympathetic toward IF as well. I don't know him enough to be convinced he is evil, or even if he did the crime. Either way, at this point, I see him as a troubled soul who desperately needs someone's help as soon as possible.

There are always disparities in coverage of crimes, based upon many things, such as the socioeconomic statuses of the parties involved, race, sex, even good looks play a huge part. Just look at Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, etc... All of the parties in those cases intrigued us because they were good looking, seemingly nice, financially stable people, etc... Cases where juveniles are accused is also sensational.

And just for the record, I wasn't referring to you specifically in any of my posts, but there has been several posts along the way in this thread that seem to indicate we should throw this kid in a cell and throw away the key, or even give him the death penalty. That is the kind of stuff that sends me into an even more protective state of a child.

I know what you mean about the way various cases are treated in the media. I'm following Eliana Steinfurth's thread right now and it breaks my heart that she is getting so little attention.

I knew you weren't singling me out but I'm stuck in the car with 3 hours (not counting the traffic in Charlotte that has let us move 1/4 mile in 20 mins) of a 14 hour drive left to go and WS is my "keep me sane" activity so I'm just floating around between this thread and Elaina's. I think we are actually pretty close to on the same "side" here. I suspect IF is guilty (I feel like others should be held responsible too though) but I can't wish for him to be locked away forever or anything close to that. I have a 12 year old boy and I just can't put myself in that place. I want to see him helped and protected not chased with pitchforks.
 
Well, no one is missing in Leila's case either-never has been anyone missing. Both cases have a suspect, also a family member, in custody. Both of the suspects are charged with the crimes, yet neither has been brought to trial yet. Both suspects have "lawyered up" and both are due their due process.

Yet, in this thread, it seems as though many are more intent on seeking justice against a 12 year old than a grown woman who is accused of killing her own son.

It just scares me that there are more people in this forum bent on revenge for IF than on the mother in the other case. :scared:

I simply don't have the time or desire to follow every case.

Speaking for myself.... it Has nothing to to with revenge.


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OK...I suppose I can see your assessment...but it just strikes me as troubling that not just this forum, but the media in general really runs with stories like this because they are so sensational. Yes-many were invested in the case before we knew the suspect was the boy, so that also adds to the fervor I suppose.

I guess it is just a reflection on my part and I guess the sadness I feel that some stories are just not covered as much as others, I suppose. I guess as the mother of 2 young boys and an 8 year old girl, perhaps I am drawn more to the stories like these. Perhaps as a mother myself, I am more outraged at how a mother can kill her own precious child and also more drawn to being sympathetic toward IF as well. I don't know him enough to be convinced he is evil, or even if he did the crime. Either way, at this point, I see him as a troubled soul who desperately needs someone's help as soon as possible.

There are always disparities in coverage of crimes, based upon many things, such as the socioeconomic statuses of the parties involved, race, sex, even good looks play a huge part. Just look at Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, etc... All of the parties in those cases intrigued us because they were good looking, seemingly nice, financially stable people, etc... Cases where juveniles are accused is also sensational.

And just for the record, I wasn't referring to you specifically in any of my posts, but there has been several posts along the way in this thread that seem to indicate we should throw this kid in a cell and throw away the key, or even give him the death penalty. That is the kind of stuff that sends me into an even more protective state of a child.

Those are none of the reasons why I followed any of those cases. None of those reasons are why many people followed those cases. The reasons why they are fascinating have to do with the psychology and abnormal psychology and what we know about that. People are not supposed to kill. People are not supposed to kill their loved ones. Kids are not supposed to kill. That's why it is fascinating to many.

There are two types of juvenile offenders...those who.can helped and those who.can't. I have worked with both types. Often violent dangerous juvenile offenders are not taken seriously..people think that just because someone is juvenile they can be rehabbed. The answer is not always. Is this young man one of them? If he did it there are some very troubling aspects of the crime. After full psychological and psychiatric workups (again, if he is guilty) and finding out why the killing happened then that is what will determine exactly what sort of offender they are dealing with.
Some kids do crimes that show deep evil. The Jonesboro massacre boys and the ones who killed little James Bulger walk among us now...free as can be. IF this boy is guilty and IF he shows something dark along the lines of those boys....I don't ever want him in regular society again....juvenile or not. That kind of evil cannot be helped. These are all BIG if's though...in this case I presume nothing right.now.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 
Husband says wife killed their son, then shot herself near Steamboat Springs - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

You know what makes me really sad??? There are so many people in here discussing this case against a 12 year old, yet I'm talking to myself in another thread about a mother who killed her only child, an innocent, amazing little boy, to exact revenge against her husband.

Just my two cents.

I pay attention to the news. I'm also very interested in crime. (To be specific, how crimes are solved and the legal process.) Until you mentioned it, I haven't heard a thing about that case. I highly suspect it's not that people don't care, or want to discuss. I would think, it's because so many simply don't know about it.

I think we have to keep this in perspective. It does not matter, if we talk about these crimes. We don't do anything to actually solve the case, or aide LE and the victims or perpetrators. What is sad, is that these crimes happen.
Just my opinion, and I hope that didn't come across as condescending. That's so not my intent.

**I"m not sure anyone here is out for revenge. I think many of us are disturbed that he did this (in our opinions) and there will be little justice. He will get out again, and there is no way of knowing if he will be well, or able to function in society. There are unknowns about this case that are particularly terrifying. There are so many factors that make his release scary for society. I am not wanting revenge, rather I am scared that he will get out. Not out of revenge, or some sort of misguided hate. I think people who slaughter others, should be kept from society. For safety. Not even justice. (Although, that is important.)
 
I think this case interests many of us because the circumstances of it are so unusual. We are not used to hearing about children killing their younger siblings. So not only does it shock us, but it also makes us ask a lot of questions that we have never asked before. There is still a mystery element involved in the case, as some people wonder whether other family members played some role. People are also very curious about the timeline, if someone arrived home before LE, when IF finally told someone Leila had been stabbed, etc. There are many unanswered questions. Also, the media is still reporting on the case, so we are still getting information to discuss too.
 
I am very curious to see how this plays out as there is still quite a bit of mystery surrounding the circumstances. I'm not sure if the parents really believe IF is innocent or they know he is guilty but still want to try and get him out of the charges.

If they want him to go unpunished by the courts even though he is guilty, then I have a great deal of concern for the other children. I am concerned that the siblings and IF may go without the treatment they will need. The thought of counseling being delayed for any of the family members at this point is very concerning to me.

I don't think a 12 year old would be able to hide his quilt from his family and the authorities and I don't think the authorities would arrest a 12 year old without sufficient evidence.
 
Those are none of the reasons why I followed any of those cases. None of those reasons are why many people followed those cases. The reasons why they are fascinating have to do with the psychology and abnormal psychology and what we know about that. People are not supposed to kill. People are not supposed to kill their loved ones. Kids are not supposed to kill. That's why it is fascinating to many.

There are two types of juvenile offenders...those who.can helped and those who.can't. I have worked with both types. Often violent dangerous juvenile offenders are not taken seriously..people think that just because someone is juvenile they can be rehabbed. The answer is not always. Is this young man one of them? If he did it there are some very troubling aspects of the crime. After full psychological and psychiatric workups (again, if he is guilty) and finding out why the killing happened then that is what will determine exactly what sort of offender they are dealing with.
Some kids do crimes that show deep evil. The Jonesboro massacre boys and the ones who killed little James Bulger walk among us now...free as can be. IF this boy is guilty and IF he shows something dark along the lines of those boys....I don't ever want him in regular society again....juvenile or not. That kind of evil cannot be helped. These are all BIG if's though...in this case I presume nothing right.now.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

BBM.

One of them is currently in prison, the other hasn't re-offended in 20 years, so obviously rehabilitation was succesful in his case.
 
I think this case interests many of us because the circumstances of it are so unusual. We are not used to hearing about children killing their younger siblings. So not only does it shock us, but it also makes us ask a lot of questions that we have never asked before. There is still a mystery element involved in the case, as some people wonder whether other family members played some role. People are also very curious about the timeline, if someone arrived home before LE, when IF finally told someone Leila had been stabbed, etc. There are many unanswered questions. Also, the media is still reporting on the case, so we are still getting information to discuss too.

can't 'thank' posts from laptop but IMO this is a spot-on assessment...
 
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