CA CA - Valencia, 2 WhtFems UP4388 & 4389, 17-35, in riverbed near I-5, Jan'80

[SimsGuy67]

Cindy has unsurprisingly never been looked into. Even if she's an exclusion it's always better to know!

 

[SimsGuy67]

Pamela Sue Hobley – The Charley Project
1367UFCA


Patricia Ann Spencer – The Charley Project
1322UFCA




I doubt it is them, but I would like to know what they think

Did you ever submit these? I think it's very likely and I was even going to make detailed posts about the 2 before seeing this!

 

[subaw0067]

How did they end up so far from Michigan though? Also have these Does ever had DNA done to determine if they were sisters or otherwise related?

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Did you ever submit these? I think it's very likely and I was even going to make detailed posts about the 2 before seeing this!

I never sent Pamela and Patricia, if you want to send you can do it

 

[John/Jane Doe]

How did they end up so far from Michigan though? Also have these Does ever had DNA done to determine if they were sisters or otherwise related?

One of the Jane Does has no DNA available so I guess they can't determine if these women may be related or not.

 

[SimsGuy67]

How did they end up so far from Michigan though? Also have these Does ever had DNA done to determine if they were sisters or otherwise related?

I think they may have been runaways. It would make sense. Sherri Jarvis ran away from Minnesota and was found in Texas, 17 hours away and she would likely have gone farther if it weren't for her murder. Michelle Garvey went missing form Connecticut and was found in Texas around 30 hours away. Michelle only had a month to travel that far and she did. Who knows how far Pamela and Patricia could have gone. I think they could have been murdered in 1973-1975. Makes them more likely than Cindy Mellin. Maybe they got money from prostitution as they had no ID on them at the time and if they gave any they would be whisked away back home but that's just a theory. Doug Clark and Carol Bundy targeted runaways and prostitutes to my knowledge.

I never sent Pamela and Patricia, if you want to send you can do it

Yes but first I am making detailed posts. I think we may have a Sherri Jarvis/Michelle Garvey situation. You can not deny how similar Patricia Spencer's age progression looks to UP4389.

The Doe's reconstruction looks like a sketch of the age progression! Looks more similar than Andria Bailey!

 

[carbuff]

(snipped by carbuff)

Yes but first I am making detailed posts. I think we may have a Sherri Jarvis/Michelle Garvey situation. You can not deny how similar Patricia Spencer's age progression looks to UP4389.

The Doe's reconstruction looks like a sketch of the age progression! Looks more similar than Andria Bailey!

I, uh, um...I'm not seeing it. Face shape is different (UID's is roundish, Patricia's is long and narrow), chin is different (Patricia's is longer and larger, UID is show with a slight cleft or bump), forehead and eyebrows are different (UID's is lower, also narrower at top), eyes aren't real close...granted the UID's eyebrows would be an approximation, the rest of the sketch should be closer.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Here are detailed posts for each match:

	Patricia Ann Spencer MP11479	Valencia Jane Doe (1980) UP4389	Possible?
Sex	Female	Female	Match
Race	White/Caucasian	White/Caucasian	Match
Age	16	17-24	Match
Hair Color	Brown	Unknown	Possible
Eye Color	Blue	Unknown	Possible
Height	5'3"	5'5"-5'9"	Possible considering circumstances
Weight	120lbs	115-130lbs	Match
Estimated D.L.C/D.O.D	October 31, 1969	1979-1980	Possible considering circumstances/ unlikely
Distinctive Features	None/Unknown	None/Unknown (Skeletal Remains)	Match
Circumstances	Went missing on the same day as her classmate, Pamela Hobley.	Found with UP4389	Match/Possible Considering Circumastances.
Distance	Oscoda-Valencia	2,383 miles	Possible considering circumstances.

Next up is Pamela Hombley!

I admit the jawline is a bit off but apparently the "jawline is an approximation". I think this Doe's lower mandible was never recovered. Upper face looks much closer with the eyes in the same general position. I admit the nose does look slightly off but this may be due to the scar Pamela had on her nose which would not pop up on skeletal remains.

	Pamela Sue Hobley MP11478	Valencia Jane Doe (1980) UP4388	Possible?
Sex	Female	Unsure, Likely Female	Likely
Race	White/Caucasian	Unsure, Likely Caucasian	Likely
Age	15	17-35	Possible Considering Circumstances
Hair Color	Brown	Blond/Brown	Match
Eye Color	Brown	Unknown	Possible
Height	5'6"-5'8"	5'4"-5'7"	Match
Weight	100-115lbs	120-140lbs	Possible Considering Circumstances
Estimated D.O.D/D.L.C	October 31, 1969	1978-1980	Possible Considering Circumstances
Distinctive Features	Scar on left side of mouth, Scar across bridge of nose.	Unknown/None (Skeletal Remains)	Match/Possible
Circumstances	Went missing on the same day as her classmate, Patricia Spencer.	Found with UP4389	Match
Distance	Oscoda-Valencia	2,383 miles	Possible Considering Circumstances

I am also copy-pasting my thoughts on the circumstances here for those who have not read it:

I think they may have been runaways. It would make sense. Sherri Jarvis ran away from Minnesota and was found in Texas, 17 hours away and she would likely have gone farther if it weren't for her murder. Michelle Garvey went missing form Connecticut and was found in Texas around 30 hours away. Michelle only had a month to travel that far and she did. Who knows how far Pamela and Patricia could have gone. I think they could have been murdered in 1973-1975. Makes them more likely than Cindy Mellin. Maybe they got money from prostitution as they had no ID on them at the time and if they gave any they would be whisked away back home but that's just a theory. Doug Clark and Carol Bundy targeted runaways and prostitutes to my knowledge. Police also treated this case as a runaway case early on.

I, uh, um...I'm not seeing it. Face shape is different (UID's is roundish, Patricia's is long and narrow), chin is different (Patricia's is longer and larger, UID is show with a slight cleft or bump), forehead and eyebrows are different (UID's is lower, also narrower at top), eyes aren't real close...granted the UID's eyebrows would be an approximation, the rest of the sketch should be closer.

Then and again this is an age progression and not a Living Photo of Patricia. I also think the "cleft" might be a mistake as I would think that they would make it more pronounced. This is also not listed anywhere that she does have a cleft on her chin. Possibly some artistic liberty. Patricia's living photo have the eyes closer seemingly. This also may have angle issues at play. Eyebrows probably are an estimation as we are working with partial remains.

 

[carbuff]

Okay, I was reading too fast, and didn't realize the photo of Patricia wasn't a real photo. Also the two sketches of the UID aren't real similar, now that I look in detail. (I'm partly face blind, so this is hard for me Apologies.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Also the two sketches of the UID aren't real similar, now that I look in detail.

I feel a little confused of what you meant here. Can you explain what you said a bit more please? I just have a bit of a hard time understanding these things sometimes!

 

[carbuff]

I feel a little confused of what you meant here. Can you explain what you said a bit more please? I just have a bit of a hard time understanding these things sometimes!

Never mind, I got confused with the two UIDs and whose sketch was whose. So basically ignore everything I said

 

[familymem]

In my limited experience, the sketches can be a lot different from the actual person. Even in cases where the UID is found in tact, the released sketch(s) isn't a good representation of the person once identified. Just look at some of the solved cases and the initial drawing released to the public. Just throwing this out there.

 

[SimsGuy67]

In my limited experience, the sketches can be a lot different from the actual person. Even in cases where the UID is found in tact, the released sketch(s) isn't a good representation of the person once identified. Just look at some of the solved cases and the initial drawing released to the public. Just throwing this out there.

I agree. Sherri Jarvis' sketch looked not so much like her. Mainly due to the fact that Sherri looked very old for her age. She could pass as a 16 year old but in reality I think she was 14?

 

[carbuff]

I agree. Sherri Jarvis' sketch looked not so much like her. Mainly due to the fact that Sherri looked very old for her age. She could pass as a 16 year old but in reality I think she was 14?

The sketch of UP4389 makes her look like she's 40, at least.

 

[SimsGuy67]

The sketch of UP4389 makes her look like she's 40, at least.

I agree. She does look very old. That's why I compared her sketch to Patricia's age progression and not her Living Photo. I thought it would be more accurate.

 

[carbuff]

I agree. She does look very old. That's why I compared her sketch to Patricia's age progression and not her Living Photo. I thought it would be more accurate.

Good point; it certainly could reflect how she'd look as an older woman. I'll look at it again (after supper) with that in mind.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

I wonder if Barbara Monaco could be a possible match for 1367UFCA


Have you seen this child?

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Barbara Jean Monaco – The Charley Project

1765DFVA - Barbara Jean Monaco





Something that caught my attention is that it is mentioned that Barbara Jean Monaco is blind in one eye (although it is unknown which one), could that explain why Jane Doe's right eye is slightly lower than the left?

 

[HmmMysterious]

How about Wanda Priddy for UP4389

Priddy's Stats:
5'4"
120 lbs (though NamUs says 90 lbs)
Brown hair

Circumstances: Priddy vanished on August 29, 1978 from Port Lavaca, Texas. She was last seen by her husband at their apartment. Her car was still parked inside.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if Barbara Monaco could be a possible match for 1367UFCA


Have you seen this child?

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Barbara Jean Monaco – The Charley Project

1765DFVA - Barbara Jean Monaco





Something that caught my attention is that it is mentioned that Barbara Jean Monaco is blind in one eye (although it is unknown which one), could that explain why Jane Doe's right eye is slightly lower than the left?

I am not usually one to raise objections based on geography. People travel. Lots. They hitch rides and grab Greyhound buses across country. They travel long distances. But somebody hauling a body from Virginia Beach to Southern California seems a bit implausible.

Though except for that, she looks like a very good possibility.

 

[SimsGuy67]

How about Wanda Priddy for UP4389

Priddy's Stats:
5'4"
120 lbs (though NamUs says 90 lbs)
Brown hair

Circumstances: Priddy vanished on August 29, 1978 from Port Lavaca, Texas. She was last seen by her husband at their apartment. Her car was still parked inside.

Haven't been on this thread for a while. What UID do you mean? UP4388 or UP4389? Your text says UP4389 but links to UP4388. It honestly could work for either though.