Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[Jena308]

Just thought I'd mention a reason DG might want to use Al's truck for transportation instead of his own as per Aljr statement here about the green truck

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/07/20140716-192250.html

"Liknes says if the missing trio was indeed taken in the suspect's old green pick-up truck, as police allege, then there's probably no need to stray far from easily-accessed roads and the fields and ditches that run alongside them.

Liknes knows the truck in question, and he says it just wasn't up to any serious distance driving or off-road excursions.

"It's a piece of crap truck," he says."

I was thinking more about timing and that he was more unlikely to come and go to avoid red flagging attention. Even in A's truck at odd times it might draw attention unless A did come and go at odd times in which case then using A's truck wouldn't draw suspicion at all.

If DG was coming and going, say to the acreage you'd have to consider time he spent initially at the L's house however long that was, then possibly 30+ minutes to the acreage, whatever time he needed there, then another 30+ back to the L's house for clean up....unless he stopped somewhere close by to drop off and return. However that said if anyone was to call the house if it was before midnight to touch base, check in and see if anything was needed for instance for NO and no one answered that could draw suspicion thus doing everything once and getting out would be more likely IMO.

If he didn't keep them on the acreage then he would also need dark hours I suspect to move them without being seen so he'd want to be in and out to allow for time needed that night to finish his plan.

I wonder if DG owned a trailer at all? Like one that could be stored somewhere or had access to one off property or near the L home.

 

[2Hope4]

Thinking....wonder if that black SUV was ever seen on the tape that caught the green truck?? If so, that might be what he used to move the bodies, it got stuck, so then he drove the green truck. From experience, a two wheel drive will get stuck and just spin much easier and quicker than 4WD. Of course that black SUV might not have anything to do with this case as well. We just don't know yet.

 

[Cherchri]

Try as we may, the chances of getting inside DG's head will prove impossible. This man planned his excursion meticulously. Disposal will also have been meticulously and painstakingly plotted. He would have been shocked to find little NO there and that would have upset his applecart for sure. I feel certain he would nonetheless have stuck with his plan. Cleaning up after himself and not disappearing tell me he thought there was no chance on God's green earth he was going to be caught. Mom and Dad were away on a camping trip and he had time on his side to cover his traces to the nth degree. In this he has succeeded thus far. His only oversight was CCTV cameras. I doubt they featured in his plot and he simply didn't factor them in. Working under cover of darkness, in the still of the night, I doubt he was overly concerned about exposure on a major highway because he simply overlooked cameras. I agree with all those who have hypothesized the use of chemicals and fire, that makes sense to me. The use of chemicals - well that's his primary skillset. In reading about "narcissistic injury" - which any if us can suffer through fairly ordinary life events, I think I can see how this level of anger festers to the point of blind rage.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just thought I'd mention a reason DG might want to use Al's truck for transportation instead of his own as per Aljr statement here about the green truck

<rsbm>

Might explain the mud seen on AL's truck (moreso on the right side), so seems it would have been pulled off on the side of a somewhat wet road somewhere as opposed to being driven through a muddy field (which would likely leave equivalent amounts of mud on both sides).

Maybe need to figure out where it rained enough that night/morning to muddy the roads between Parkhill (which was supposedly dry) and Airdrie.

 

[dairydog]

If he was to remove the bodies and come back that's a fair bit of travel unless he had somewhere close by in mind to dispose of the 3. This would also be a red flag for anyone who may have noticed his truck at the L home earlier if he was coming and going. I cannot really imagine A's truck playing a big role if DG is one of comfort and planning. He would be unfamiliar with the truck and not know if it was in good running order and would not likely want to be in position where he would become stuck somewhere with 3 bodies and stolen vehicle. I would think if anything the 3 may be closer to the L home. If they had a trunk they were selling neighbors might not think much at all if they saw someone leaving with a trunk being that they were having an estate sale, more than likely they may have cast a quick glance and thought nothing of it. It wouldn't raise much suspision under the circumstances and could even have left earlier without any red flags.

Another thought if he left directly from the home with the 3 having done his clean up and didn't return is one that perhaps he considered a pig farm (slaughter house) like in Bassano to dump? Not sure if employees or workers regularly move through the pens or patrol the lots or if there is cameras. Bassano is not too far and he could have easily made it there and returned to his farm in the evening hours to continue disposal of other evidence.

I agree that I don't believe that DG used AL's truck but I could be totally wrong. I think that the name of DG's game plan was expedience; do what he had to do and get away from the house as quickly as possible. I see the following problems with taking AL's truck.

• Where were the keys? Maybe easy to locate but maybe not and time was of the essence.
• How much gas was in that truck?
• Concern that in the off chance, someone would notice that the truck was missing & later returned (even late at night).
• Concern that his own green truck may be noticed by someone who would report this later to LE.

I think that early on it was said that AL's truck was towed away for the purpose of forensic testing but I have no idea where to find the link. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure that LE wanted to be thorough and leave no stone unturned and thus the testing of the truck for any evidence.

 

[2Hope4]

If chemicals were used, then why weren't they used on the drag marks at the home?? I'm still not convinced that anything was used to those marks as clean up or to conceal. I'm not even sure that any type of clean up was done at the crime scene period.

 

[2Hope4]

Also, just when was the office cleared out, and who did the moving??? Could DG have first encountered AL there?? Or when AL returned from the office perhaps that night??? We don't know.

 

[Sillybilly]

To claim that his main motivation in life is/was crime is a dubious statement especially considering you have read a few bits of information regarding the man's almost 60 years of existence. I'm not going to defend his past but I also know that it is quite common for folks in their younger years, especially in rural settings, to get in trouble with the law.

I know that we are all very interested in this disappearance and in understanding what happened and why but it is also critical to think about accusations and allegations before putting pen to paper (or in this case before hitting the post button.)

He was 32 when he was busted wrt his drug lab, etc. .. I don't consider that a young person. Plus he obviously continued his criminal behaviour (as evidenced in 1998 by stealing the tractor trailer, etc when he was 38 y.o).

ETA: then after the tractor trailer theft (from the timeline in 1999):
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-Maps-amp-Timeline*&p=10757551#post10757551

1999 May 31, DG arrested in Vancouver BC; had been working as a chemical mixer at the B.C. Institute of Technology under the name of deceased Matthew Kemper Hartley. Charges of impersonation, trafficking in a controlled substance, theft over $5,000, possession of break-in instruments, possession of property obtained by crime over $5,000 and obstructing a police officer (weapons charge dismissed?).

These aren't accusations and allegations .. these are known facts and charges for which he did time in prison.

 

[ResearchQuest]

Because he honestly thought he outsmarted the crime and was going to get away with it.

You are probably right, goodasgold.

 

[ResearchQuest]

it was posted way back and within the text it also said he liked the camrose area and somewhere else. Alberta has more recreational fishermen per capita than any other Province, and hunting isn't far behind.

But we still don't know for sure, though.

 

[ResearchQuest]

To claim that his main motivation in life is/was crime is a dubious statement especially considering you have read a few bits of information regarding the man's almost 60 years of existence. I'm not going to defend his past but I also know that it is quite common for folks in their younger years, especially in rural settings, to get in trouble with the law.

I know that we are all very interested in this disappearance and in understanding what happened and why but it is also critical to think about accusations and allegations before putting pen to paper (or in this case before hitting the post button.)

[modsnip] I believe his main motivation was crime because he has a lengthy criminal record both in Alberta and in British Columbia. He uses crime to make a living.

 

[goodasgold]

To claim that his main motivation in life is/was crime is a dubious statement especially considering you have read a few bits of information regarding the man's almost 60 years of existence. I'm not going to defend his past but I also know that it is quite common for folks in their younger years, especially in rural settings, to get in trouble with the law.

I know that we are all very interested in this disappearance and in understanding what happened [modsnip]

Especially since most the other crimes he was convicted with weren't of violent nature. This one is kind of out of the ordinary for his behavior and maybe there is more going on than we even know. The trial will answer so many questions. Just think, if ALjr and PG have kids, it could have easily been their child staying at the grandparents instead of NO, would DG have gone so far as to hurt his own niece/nephew? That is one thing that has been getting to me.

 

[goodasgold]

[modsnip] I believe his main motivation was crime because he has a lengthy criminal record both in Alberta and in British Columbia. He uses crime to make a living.

I admit he seemed to have lived a life of crime. However, many people steal and are involved with drugs but don't turn to murder just to do a crime. I see both sides of this debate.

 

[goodasgold]

Also, just when was the office cleared out, and who did the moving??? Could DG have first encountered AL there?? Or when AL returned from the office perhaps that night??? We don't know.

One thing that i do not understand and has really been getting to me is why at the family plea when the reporter asked " Was the sale still on when you left and when was the last time you seen NO?" JO said" no comment". Why would LE advise to do so when we already had public knowledge of her leaving NO at 10:00 pm?

 

[ResearchQuest]

I admit he seemed to have lived a life of crime. However, many people steal and are involved with drugs but don't turn to murder just to do a crime. I see both sides of this debate.

I don't know the statistics on how many people who are involved in other crimes (theft, drugs) eventually turn to violence to either maintain or cover up their past. But some certainly do. DG just seems like a career criminal whose crimes escalated into something a lot more serious. He has, basically, lived a life of crime. If he's a psychopath or sociopath (I'm no psychologist), while most people are not, that could be the difference as to why petty theft and crimes committed while young increased as he got older, rather than decreased.

I would hazard a guess and say that most people who commit small crimes as youths, grow out of this habit. But in DG's case, he seems to have become more elaborate as the years went on. After all, the identity theft was a pretty devious and serious crime, in my opinion.

It would be interesting to learn more on the patterns of crime escalation.

 

[swedie]

I apologize everyone if this has been discussed previously and I missed it! This may be a goofy question and comment but something just occurred to me. If DG placed the bodies in the bed of his truck and covered them with a blanket/carpet, is it possible that the CCTV on that home would show this? We know that LE has lots of evidence and perhaps this is something they would not release to the public. I don't know which way DG would turn when leaving the driveway. Is it possible that he at this point would pass that CCTV again? (but this time with the bodies). LE obviously released the photo of the truck but perhaps a later image showing evidence would not be released. I know it's a long shot but in this mind boggling case, anything is possible. Does this make any sense?

I have thought the same thing and IMO that's highly possible. I won't be surprised if they have acquired a few videos from different sources.

What scares me is, I believe AL and KL's murders were premeditated along with disposal plans and unless DG divulges to someone where he left the victims' bodies, I fear they will never be found. I assume he drove at least an hour away. It is vast land out there and probably all kinds of places where no one ever goes. I doubt he disposed of his victims anywhere where he figured someone would stumble upon them eventually. More than likely not in a body of water, but by leaving them on land he's leaving them for the wildlife kwim. JMO.

Sadly even if LE try and plea deal with him in exchange for the victims whereabouts, he's probably smart enough to know he'll never see the light of day again outside of prison walls. I would guess he could be classified as a dangerous offender as none of the other criteria fit: mass murderer, serial killer or spree killer. MOO.

Here's hoping DG is not in segregation and he spills. This family needs to lay the loved ones to rest. MOO.

http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/killer_types.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dangerous-offender-what-the-label-means-1.927620

 

[Sillybilly]

I admit he seemed to have lived a life of crime. However, many people steal and are involved with drugs but don't turn to murder just to do a crime. I see both sides of this debate.

There have certainly been totally "upstanding" peeps whom we would never suspect of anything remotely criminal, let alone heinous .. ex-Col. Russ Williams springs to mind. Who'da thunk it?

 

[Sillybilly]

I would hazard a guess and say that most people who commit small crimes as youths, grow out of this habit ...

It would be interesting to learn more on the patterns of crime escalation.

<rsbm>

I once had a well-known criminal lawyer tell me that if they haven't given up their criminal behaviour by the time they reach 30, it's unlikely they will ever turn their lives around. Don't know the stats, but would be interesting to research.

 

[ResearchQuest]

There have certainly been totally "upstanding" peeps whom we would never suspect of anything remotely criminal, let alone heinous .. ex-Col. Russ Williams springs to mind. Who'da thunk it?

Gosh, Russell Williams, that was a horrible case. Yes, good point.

 

[BabaJ]

If I wanted to get from Parkhill to Airdrie ASAP and without running across too many other motorists or possibly police I would use 42 Ave to Blackfoot and head north on the Deerfoot. Going east to Stoney Trail is way too much hassle.

I would do exactly the same, you go mostly through industrial areas and Blackfoot and Deerfoot would be relatively fast, especially during the night. There are cameras though on some of the intersections along that route.