Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[scrappinkat]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

I believe that if the story is true that at least one has PAL. The penalties for selling a firearm illegally simply aren’t worth it for a business.

 

[sprucetip]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

I think they totally could have purchased guns legally even though the sighting could be wrong.

There’s less of a chance a gun shop owner would have sold a gun without a PAL IMO.

Another option - they bought the gun legally from someone in a private sale. That’s even easier.

 

[scrappinkat]

That's sort of my feeling: if the gun shop came forward and said we sold them a gun (and we have video, or we have a PAL on record, etc.) it would be a scoop.

Just another "sighting" after all the false sightings though...these guys have been seen more places than Elvis. I'm skeptical.

Perhaps the store owner went to RCMP instead of media? And that’s not something the RCMP have decided to disclose yet.

Although even that scenario leaves a few unanswered questions.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Perhaps the store owner went to RCMP instead of media? And that’s not something the RCMP have decided to disclose yet.

Although even that scenario leaves a few unanswered questions.

The RCMP said yesterday they're not going to confirm any details until the report/update is out in a couple of weeks. So if he did go to them, it makes sense that we wouldn't necessarily know about it. Also, imagine the backlash the store would get. I wouldn't say anything to the public either.

I wonder what the background is on this witness though. Why did he remember two random teenagers? When did he realize it was Kam and Bryer? When did this all happen?

 

[Zella]

FWIW, I don't think the gun store is going to come forward to the media and admit to selling them those guns. I'm sure that poor clerk who served them and advised them on cartridges is absolutely horrified.

 

[Zella]

The RCMP said yesterday they're not going to confirm any details until the report/update is out in a couple of weeks. So if he did go to them, it makes sense that we wouldn't necessarily know about it. Also, imagine the backlash the store would get. I wouldn't say anything to the public either.

I wonder what the background is on this witness though. Why did he remember two random teenagers? When did he realize it was Kam and Bryer? When did this all happen?

My read was he was a PA native, too, and I don't think the transaction happened in PA, so he might have recognized them and mentally been like what are two doing here? (That happens all the time where I live. You're in a larger nearby town, and you see folks from your town and are like, "what are the odds?")

Also, he might have just been struck by the sight of two ginormously tall teenagers buying a gun, then when the case broke, he recognized their faces and realized that's who he saw, so he called it in.

 

[NJSleuth91]

My read was he was a PA native, too, and I don't think the transaction happened in PA, so he might have recognized them and mentally been like what are two doing here? (That happens all the time where I live. You're in a larger nearby town, and you see folks from your town and are like, "what are the odds?")

Also, he might have just been struck by the sight of two ginormously tall teenagers buying a gun, then when the case broke, he recognized their faces and realized that's who he saw, so he called it in.

From his description it didn't sound like he personally knew them, though, at least not to me.

That's true about them being really tall and therefore memorable, plus we know Bryer creeped people out in general (and I'm sure being 6'4" or possibly even taller didn't help in the creepiness department), so maybe he just got bad vibes from them or something, and then later remembered about it...one of those "Gift of Fear" things.

 

[sprucetip]

I think it's wise to be cautious about this sighting...as has been posted already, why only now is it becoming public? Why keep that to yourself, when everyone in the area were talking about it for weeks? Unless, @SnooperDuper 's b) is the case.



I don't think money would really be an issue, though. It would cost, what, $80 or $60 for the PAL, depending if they wanted restricted or non-restricted guns, and $80 for the course. These two could have combined their paycheques for two pay periods for probably close to$4,000 pre-tax. The harder part for these two would be passing the exam, I'd think. They seemed to have learning issues and likely concentration difficulties. Although, when you're keen on something, that desire can really keep you focused. If one or both had a PAL, that'd be known to LE.

They could have just as easily purchased a new or used gun online legitimately, or, as has been suggested, from someone locally and completely unrecorded anywhere.

EDIT: Sorry...meant two pay periods, not two weeks for their pay

I think you hit the nail on the head with ‘if they were keen’ ... if they had an interest in guns, they might have really been interested in the course and learning more about guns. And passed it easily.

I took the course this spring, it was around $120 and supposed to be 2 full days. But because there were only 3 of us it took 6 hours! I think most of the time is spent doing the individual testing and marking it if the course is full. It was not difficult and if you have a familiarity with guns, it would be easy to pass the test.

I say ‘they’ because I’m not sure who took the course, maybe both? But probably just Kam, otherwise I feel AS would have let us know Bryer had a licence.

Just imagine though, if one of them took the course knowing what they were planning on doing...

 

[sprucetip]

You can find used guns at a gun store for a very reasonable price. You can get a used military style gun, like a Lee Enfield, for under $300, a used SKS for around $400. A brand new semi-automatic .22 for $300, a brand new centre fire, like a 30-06 for $500.

Also - in my experience it’s very easy to get a PAL, the course isn’t difficult, the test is an easy multiple choice test, it would be difficult to fail it. I took the course a year ago - my course was only two afternoons, not two full days (my neighbour just got his and his course was one full day). And I have a history of suicide and resultant hospitalization (after my husband died and I’m totally okay now!) Thankfully they’re tightening up the rules with regard to that, because yikes.

I do think that it’s reasonable to assume that Kam might have had his PAL (but, and I don’t know why, I never did imagine him going into a gun store and buying a gun.)

This is the course manual, it’s actually a really good source of information, I sure learned a lot and I highly recommend a read:

Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

Glad you are ok now!!!

 

[sprucetip]

Perhaps the store owner went to RCMP instead of media? And that’s not something the RCMP have decided to disclose yet.

Although even that scenario leaves a few unanswered questions.

I bet lots of people went to the police and not the media about these two. I bet we’ll hear more soon.

 

[Zella]

From his description it didn't sound like he personally knew them, though, at least not to me.

That's true about them being really tall and therefore memorable, plus we know Bryer creeped people out in general (and I'm sure being 6'4" or possibly even taller didn't help in the creepiness department), so maybe he just got bad vibes from them or something, and then later remembered about it...one of those "Gift of Fear" things.

Yeah you're right--it didn't sound like he knew them. So, I bet it is a combination of "Wow, those 2 are really tall" and "Hmm this gives me the creeps."

And even if it didn't give him the creeps, I'd think after the story became publicized, he'd be like "Tall teen with sandy hair and scraggly beard? Check. Tall, really skinny teen with black hair and no facial hair? Check. That's them I saw." And the RCMP of course could follow up and verify it was in fact them and not just 2 weird doppelgangers running around.

 

[CinNC]

JMO but I think it's important to keep in mind that just because we/the public are now hearing things doesn't mean the RCMP is just now hearing them, too.

They may very well know about the gun purchase (if it is true). In act, the gun purchase and ensuing ballistics may be what turned K&B into suspects to begin with, which means the RCMP have known for more than a month now.

Just like the video the two left; the RCMP would have seen it on or shortly after August 7th, but it is just now being leaked.

People "coming forward" with the media may have nothing to do with the time frame of the RCMP investigation.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Yeah you're right--it didn't sound like he knew them. So, I bet it is a combination of "Wow, those 2 are really tall" and "Hmm this gives me the creeps."

And even if it didn't give him the creeps, I'd think after the story became publicized, he'd be like "Tall teen with sandy hair and scraggly beard? Check. Tall, really skinny teen with black hair and no facial hair? Check. That's them I saw." And the RCMP of course could follow up and verify it was in fact them and not just 2 weird doppelgangers running around.

I'd think these would have stood out and been memorable. I know they would have been to me

 

[Zella]

I'd think these would have stood out and been memorable. I know they would have been to me

I would have noticed their height, if nothing else. I was with my grandmother in a store just the other day, and we passed a couple who were both over 6'2." We both were exchanging looks with each other like, "DID YOU SEE HOW TALL THEY BOTH WERE?!" So, yeah, if I'd seen Kam and Bryer out and about, I would have probably done a double-take and been like, "Were both of those dudes really that tall?"

 

[Moriarty]

I'd think these would have stood out and been memorable. I know they would have been to me

Yeah you're right--it didn't sound like he knew them. So, I bet it is a combination of "Wow, those 2 are really tall" and "Hmm this gives me the creeps."

And even if it didn't give him the creeps, I'd think after the story became publicized, he'd be like "Tall teen with sandy hair and scraggly beard? Check. Tall, really skinny teen with black hair and no facial hair? Check. That's them I saw." And the RCMP of course could follow up and verify it was in fact them and not just 2 weird doppelgangers running around.

For a split second there, in my mind I pictured these two guys in the gun store, one wearing camo with a Nazi armband on, the other munching on porkchops and dropping orange peels everywhere.

I think I've absorbed too many facts and details over the past few weeks...

 

[Zella]

For a split second there, in my mind I pictured these two guys in the gun store, one wearing camo with a Nazi armband on, the other munching on porkchops and dropping orange peels everywhere.

I think I've absorbed too many facts and details over the past few weeks...

LOLOL

I was totally envisoning Bryer at the gunstore in his camo too! I can't unsee Kam in the store chowing down on porkchops and oranges now.

And yeah I think have absorbed too many details too. I had another dream about the case last night and was correcting factual errors in my dream.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yeah you're right--it didn't sound like he knew them. So, I bet it is a combination of "Wow, those 2 are really tall" and "Hmm this gives me the creeps."

And even if it didn't give him the creeps, I'd think after the story became publicized, he'd be like "Tall teen with sandy hair and scraggly beard? Check. Tall, really skinny teen with black hair and no facial hair? Check. That's them I saw." And the RCMP of course could follow up and verify it was in fact them and not just 2 weird doppelgangers running around.

It's actually WS that defeated any belief in eyewitnesses for me. It's that guy seen having an animated conversation with Chynna, with the beard, that did it. WSers saw that anybody with a beard was a match to the guy, even if they weren't even the same race. I'm sure any tall people were "exact matches" to KM and BS.

If the rifle purchase story was really credible, it would have been an article of its own rather than an addendum to another story in select papers.

 

[catdctr]

I think Kam and Bryer have been exploring researching and probably collecting them for years. They probably also have gone to many gun stores to see the guns they are interested in up close.

 

[NJSleuth91]

For a split second there, in my mind I pictured these two guys in the gun store, one wearing camo with a Nazi armband on, the other munching on porkchops and dropping orange peels everywhere.

I think I've absorbed too many facts and details over the past few weeks...

LOLOL

I was totally envisoning Bryer at the gunstore in his camo too! I can't unsee Kam in the store chowing down on porkchops and oranges now.

For the record this is also pretty much what I imagined.

 

[Elley Mae]

Canadian manhunt killers recorded 'last will and testament' on phone before killing themselves

Canadian manhunt killers recorded 'last will and testament' on phone before killing themselves

An unnamed family member who did not see the video first-hand told the Star that about 30 seconds of video was shared with family members, in which the two men said goodbye and described their last wishes for their remains.