CAR SEAT discussion

[CHERIE.T]

This made me curious so I just measured my grandchild's car seat from--

the area where babie's butt sits up to the closest set ie LOWEST set --of shoulder straps and it's ........................ not very far at all.

I did this for my own curiosity.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

The cutie pie in the provided photo looks much taller than little Cooper did when sitting in his car seat. imo.

The photo of Cooper actually in the red seat, doesn't appear to be a recent photo, that could be up to 6-8 months old and we know how quickly toddlers grow.

 

[CHERIE.T]

DeDees quote

Here's how I see it. Cooper had outgrown his red, Chicco rear-facing infant's seat. The parents acquired a more suitable front-facing car seat for Cooper six weeks prior to his death but they only acquired one new, properly-fitted car seat for Cooper even though they shared equal duty taking and picking up Cooper from LAA daycare. The new car seat was installed in LHs car when she visited AL in May. LH and Cooper had been home from AL at least two weeks at TOD on June 18.

quote snipped for space


^^^^^^^^^ that!

 

[invisibleninja]

Fantastic! Thank you, for taking one for Team Cooper, invisibleninja and invisibleninjababy! Could invisibleninjababy, with his adorable long dark hair and precious little hands, breathe comfortably while strapped in that tightly?

Yeah, he could breathe fine. I wouldn't have put him in there if I thought I was going to hurt him. The other week when I strapped him in to check, he was actually laughing while I did it (Not so much this time because he wanted to play with the magnets), and kept trying to sit back in it, so I don't think he was too uncomfortable. Well, not too uncomfortable for the 10 seconds he was in there, but he definitely would have been uncomfortable to sit in it for any length of time. In addition to the straps just being far too low, width wise, it's just too narrow.

And he did get a little treat for humoring me. He got his hair cut (Okay, that wasn't a treat for him.) and got several new books after that, so he's happy.

 

[gngr~snap]

Ya know what makes me sad? I had an infant seat for my dsughter then about 10-11 months switched to a bigger seat because I had another baby on the way . She could have gone longer in her seat. She loved that seat! She watched tv in it and rocked in it. Slept in it. I couldn't pry it away! I still had to buy my son a new one!!
She played in THAT seat until she was 4!!! Then the doll babies got it.
It makes me so sad that Cooper was killed in his. They are supposed to feel safe!

All posts are MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

Wow that was so long ago! That seat popped up and it would sway forward and backward so you couod rock them when not in the car.

The toddler seats had that huge padded arm that you had to lift up to get them out. I think kids got hurt in those so they quit making them.
We had 2 seats per child by the time my son was 2 months old. That car swapping was for the birds. It was too easy to just drop a baby in the base. And load the other one up like a roller coaster ride.


All posts are MOO

 

[CHERIE.T]

Ya know what makes me sad? I had an infant seat for my dsughter then about 10-11 months switched to a bigger seat because I had another baby on the way . She could have gone longer in her seat. She loved that seat! She watched tv in it and rocked in it. Slept in it. I couldn't pry it away! I still had to buy my son a new one!!
She played in THAT seat until she was 4!!! Then the doll babies got it.
It makes me so sad that Cooper was killed in his. They are supposed to feel safe!

All posts are MOO

bbm
So heartbreaking. :tantrum::crying:


Think how many times this little one screamed and yelled for MOMMMY-----------DADDY GET ME OUT. :crying:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The photo of Cooper actually in the red seat, doesn't appear to be a recent photo, that could be up to 6-8 months old and we know how quickly toddlers grow.

However they don't grow the same way. Mostly they grow in leg length not torso so fast. In a rear facing seat the childs shoulders must be above the harness holes. It does not matter if it is 5 inches below it just has to be below for the child to be safe in the seat. The childs head must be at least 1 inch below the top of the seat. If that was the case, Even if his height was taller than the recommendations of the seat it was safe to use.

I bought a fr85 for my big boy because he was growing so fast and to be honest, I did not need it because his torso grew slower than the rest of him.
I bet this child fit and fit well in that seat, No matter where the straps were.

If we want to get to the truth, You have to work with the facts of child seat safety rules, Not what you think or what is reported. It has to be the facts that follow the rules of car seat safety. That is the only way you can find the truth and really have a good valid opinion about the case.

 

[invisibleninja]

However they don't grow the same way. Mostly they grow in leg length not torso so fast. In a rear facing seat the childs shoulders must be above the harness holes. It does not matter if it is 5 inches below it just has to be below for the child to be safe in the seat. The childs head must be at least 1 inch below the top of the seat. If that was the case, Even if his height was taller than the recommendations of the seat it was safe to use.

I think I will have to agree to disagree with regards to the last sentence there. The Chicco Keyfit 30 manual states, "ONLY USE this Child Restraint with children who weigh between 4 and 30 pounds (2 and 13.5 kg) and whose height is 30 inches (76 cm) or less. DO NOT use this child restraint if top of child's head is less than 1 inch from top of restraint."

If Cooper was taller than 30 inches (and I believe in the testimony it was said that he had exceeded the height limit by several inches) then this seat was outgrown and it was not a safe seat for him, regardless of if he had 1 inch of shell above his head or not. All of the CPSTs I have seen all state to go by the manual and not to go against manufacturers' recommendations.

It's up to the parent whether they follow that or not, and maybe they are comfortable going against what it says, but according to the manufacturer, once 30 inches is hit, that seat is outgrown, whether there is more than 1 inch of shell above the head or not.

 

[Oblio]

If Cooper was taller than 30 inches (and I believe in the testimony it was said that he had exceeded the height limit by several inches) then this seat was outgrown and it was not a safe seat for him, regardless of if he had 1 inch of shell above his head or not. All of the CPSTs I have seen all state to go by the manual and not to go against manufacturers' recommendations.

Except if you google "keyfit 30 one inch rule", you'll get a whole slew of CPSTs at car-seat.org saying it's okay to follow the one inch rule. And to carry the CPST title, they have to provide board admin with proof.

So there is a good chance Ross was using the seat in a way he honestly believed to be safe and not outgrown.

 

[Oblio]

That's not to say that I don't think he's guilty, either. As things have come together, it's to see the whole picture, but it just don't think the seat is such a sensational aspect of the story. His unprompted assertion about buckling him up good and tight has more to do with proving himself to be a good, loving parent. I don't think it has anything to do with how he used the seat as a device of torture.

 

[Oblio]

Sorry, should get my thoughts together better before posting. Anyway, I think we can count on the one inch rule coming up in trial, and the defense putting a CPST on the stand. The way Cooper fit in his seat won't be damning evidence. It just won't.

 

[RANCH]

I never heard of "CPST" so I looked it up. Child Passenger Safety Technician.

http://cert.safekids.org/

 

[CHERIE.T]

However they don't grow the same way. Mostly they grow in leg length not torso so fast. In a rear facing seat the childs shoulders must be above the harness holes. It does not matter if it is 5 inches below it just has to be below for the child to be safe in the seat. The childs head must be at least 1 inch below the top of the seat. If that was the case, Even if his height was taller than the recommendations of the seat it was safe to use.

I bought a fr85 for my big boy because he was growing so fast and to be honest, I did not need it because his torso grew slower than the rest of him.
I bet this child fit and fit well in that seat, No matter where the straps were.

If we want to get to the truth, You have to work with the facts of child seat safety rules, Not what you think or what is reported. It has to be the facts that follow the rules of car seat safety. That is the only way you can find the truth and really have a good valid opinion about the case.

bbm
HU? According to whom?
Any of us can have good and valid opinions, imo.

 

[DeDee]

Stoddard said Cooper was ”several inches” too big for the car cradle, positioned in the middle of the back seat, and testified the child’s head would’ve been visible.

http://www.thonline.com/news/national_world/article_1116a2bc-063d-11e4-ad09-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[invisibleninja]

I think the seat was probably just used because it was the extra seat they had. Either they knew he had outgrown it but didn't think it was a big deal or they didn't know it was outgrown. In following car seat safety groups I've come to realize a lot of people have their seats installed incorrectly or have their kids in the wrong seat for their age, in seats they have outgrown, etc., not because they are bad people, but because they don't know. Either they don't read the manual or they read but don't understand it, etcetera.

Do I think he had outgrown the seat? Yes. Do I think he was put in an outgrown seat for sinister reasons? Not really. I think it was more along the lines of not knowing or knowing but thinking "eh, what's the big deal."

If that makes sense.

I do think the seat is important though, because depending on his size and how much his head was visible, would be important facts into whether Ross did/could see him while he was driving.

 

[Oblio]

I think the seat was probably just used because it was the extra seat they had. Either they knew he had outgrown it but didn't think it was a big deal or they didn't know it was outgrown. In following car seat safety groups I've come to realize a lot of people have their seats installed incorrectly or have their kids in the wrong seat for their age, in seats they have outgrown, etc., not because they are bad people, but because they don't know. Either they don't read the manual or they read but don't understand it, etcetera.

Do I think he had outgrown the seat? Yes. Do I think he was put in an outgrown seat for sinister reasons? Not really. I think it was more along the lines of not knowing or knowing but thinking "eh, what's the big deal."

If that makes sense.

I do think the seat is important though, because depending on his size and how much his head was visible, would be important facts into whether Ross did/could see him while he was driving.

Exactly.


It just just isn't the smoking gun. I think it will prove to be no big deal other than the visibility factor.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I know a good bit more than the average parent about car seats, my family and friends call me a "car seat freak," my children rear faced past one before it was recommended and they sat in 5 pt harnesses until they outgrew the weight and now sit in boosters until a shoulder belt fits them correctly. My four year old is petite and still rear faces in a britax 70. I've posted and been involved on car seat boards for over ten years.

RH told LE he knew the make and model, and weight and height restrictions for Cooper's car seat when being questioned. It would make sense that if he knew of and "was practicing" the one inch rule, that's when he would have mentioned it, and perhaps we will learn he did during the trial. If he was truly a devoted, loving, car seat-researching father, he'd have known not to have the straps on the lowest setting, so those things together are contradictory.

Also, someone stated above that the child's shoulders shouldn't grow above the tallest slot, but for rear facing, the straps need to come from below the shoulder, so it's ok if their shoulders are taller than the tallest slot. The strap has to come out of the slot nearest to but not above the shoulder, when rear facing.

Also, and this is opinion, over the course of having five children and becoming a "car seat freak," I have talked ad nauseam about car seats with my husband. When I heard RH knew make and model of the seat, it struck me as very odd for a dad. I asked my husband if he knew our daughter's car seat brand, my 18 year old also chimed in. I had my husband answer first and he said "Graco," and my daughter answered that she agreed. It's a Britax, and there's a label right above my younger daughter's head every time she gets buckled in.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I think the seat was probably just used because it was the extra seat they had. Either they knew he had outgrown it but didn't think it was a big deal or they didn't know it was outgrown. In following car seat safety groups I've come to realize a lot of people have their seats installed incorrectly or have their kids in the wrong seat for their age, in seats they have outgrown, etc., not because they are bad people, but because they don't know. Either they don't read the manual or they read but don't understand it, etcetera.

Do I think he had outgrown the seat? Yes. Do I think he was put in an outgrown seat for sinister reasons? Not really. I think it was more along the lines of not knowing or knowing but thinking "eh, what's the big deal."

If that makes sense.

I do think the seat is important though, because depending on his size and how much his head was visible, would be important facts into whether Ross did/could see him while he was driving.

I still can't get over those straps being set at the lowest setting--they should have been adjusted a long time ago! The word is that this smaller car seat was used on a regular basis; it was recently in LH's car--I would imagine that aside from the times she picked Cooper up from daycare, she also drove him a lot of other places in the evenings, on weekends, etc. Maybe they just didn't know, but it seems really odd that neither of them would have adjusted those straps--especially since they actually did notice they needed to buy a new one. Which brings up another thought...did they only have the one seat prior to getting the new one?

 

[Oblio]

http://www.thonline.com/news/national_world/article_1116a2bc-063d-11e4-ad09-001a4bcf6878.html

I don't doubt for one second that he was over 30" tall. But even over 30" tall, his torso could have been short enough that he still passed the one inch rule, and if that is the case, it will be argued.

Height ranges on car seats are very commonly viewed as guidelines by CPSTs. Something that will give a parent an idea if their kids will fit. I've noticed that fit within a seat is viewed on very generic terms. Straps at or below shoulders rear facing, with 1" or more of shell above head. (This would be measured best with a right angle, not just an eyeball.) in cases of seats where the lowest slots are above the shoulder, as long as it's less than x(I forget the exact number)", it's acceptable. Forward facing kids have to have straps at or above and a certain amount of shell he hind their head. There is one manufacturer that says to go by the shell of the seat, even if the top slots are below. Well this is something that is pretty well documented as a no-no and many techs disregard it, still recommending replacement by strap height alone. The only time height ranges are really paid attention to is on boosters or forward facing in a cosco seat. The latter has more to do with the extended rear facing movement. It's one more thing that can be argued to keep babies rear facing.

There is no such than as an "appropriate forward facing seat" for a one year old. None. If I had to choose between my toddler forward facing in a seat that he fit according to the manufacturers guidelines, and an infant seat he met the weight limit and one inch rule on, I'd pick the infant seat, even if he was out of the written range.