Casey as "co-counsel" ...good strategy or no?

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DNA Solves

KC modeling "co-counsel" Good defense move or bad move?

  • It's a good defense strategy

    Votes: 14 4.5%
  • It's a bad defense strategy

    Votes: 266 85.0%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 33 10.5%

  • Total voters
    313
The pop eye look was in response to Dr. Vass talking about the crematorium dumping bodies behind the crematorium instead of cremating them, to save money. Knowing the smell of one tiny body, she likely reacted to the thought of the smell of tons of bodies rotting in the elements.

I was very irritated by the video of casey entering on 3-24-11 - her strut, smirks and smiles at her "co-counsel". Then being handed the file and rifling through it with a look of "Okay, now what do we have here? Let's get to work." This is like a walk in the park to her. She likes to look and feel important. She's out of touch and so is her defense counsel.

I showed the video to a friend of mine who doesn't follow the case, except for highlights I give her. She just laughed. She thought it was funny but that was because she thought it showed how "crazy" casey is. Crazy as in should not be held accountable? No, but crazy as in very personality disordered and unaware of reality. So, I do think it will underscore how abnormal casey is but not in any way that could help get her off. This is the kind of abnormality that lets the public know something is wrong with a person such that that person is capable of murder.

Do I think the defense is allowing her to actually assist them? No, except maybe by handing them a folder now and then. Do I think she is mindlessly doodling or writing notes to her family? No. I think she is actively going through depos and making notes as to things she thinks are important, discrepancies she thinks she hears between hearing and depo testimony, things that the witnesses say that she thinks are b.s. or can be disproved, etc. and points she wants her attorneys to consider and use in questioning. Kind of like her mom, she will pick apart one thing and concentrate on that as if that one thing shows the entire case against her is nonsense.

Her demeanor, as if she doesn't have a care in the world, is a professional assisting on the case and as if she is not on trial for the murder of her baby and facing the DEATH PENALTY, drives me batty. It's irritating. But she needs to be paying attention and assisting in her own defense and by doing what she is doing, conferring with counsel as to issues she thinks are important, writing notes about testimony or things she thinks need to be explored in cross, which is the sense I get from her movements, I think she is. Otherwise she can claim she had no idea what was happening and was not competent enough to assist in her defense.

With my clients, I hand them a legal pad and tell them that if they need to tell me anything, to write it down instead of telling me or interrupting verbally, and to slide the pad in front of me or wait for a break to show me. Then I look at what they wrote and explain to them how that point is going to be made or how the point is not relevant.

So, IMO, the substance of what she is doing is not wrong but her demeanor while doing it reveals what she really is, as does her demeanor in any context. She can't understand the seriousness of her position because she doesn't care that a little girl is dead. So, no one else should. All of us dummies will eventually be convinced by her powers of persuasion, through her oh so smart defense counsel and she'll be free. She simply cannot comprehend that society is sufficiently horrified by the evil murder of a little snothead such that we will not give up and will continue to seek justice for Caylee.

To casey, this is just another conflict and she always wins those, by persisting in her lies or making excuses, so she thinks it's only a matter of time before she is released. Hence, the odd demeanor. Believe me, this is not a person who lies awake in her cell, consumed by the possibility that she will never live to walk out of the doors again as a free woman. Oh no, she is consumed with thoughts of revenge and delusions about adventures and romances she will have once free.

BBM- Very interesting points. I think now in retrospect, I'm referring to a different eye bulging then the one pictured. I don't know how to capture the pic but she's done this many times and the one I'm referring to is when JB and the other two attorneys are standing behind ICA- LBD is talking to JB and then walks away. ICA then makes bulging eyes and a smirk at something JB says, presumably about LBD.........But you describe this time perfectly. I remember the part where Dr. Vass was testifying.

I love this last paragraph you made. You nailed that perfectly. I agree. She's not lost one single nights sleep over this. She is just waiting it out- "knowing" it's just a matter of time- "I'll sit here as long as I have to"- ICA. What she really means is- until they all see how WRONG they've been. Just wait until MOM gets up there and talks circles around all these 'jokers'. Then they'll all see MY TRUTH and let me go and finally go after the real killer.

"YO- Zenaida(said with accent) Fernandez *hyphen* Gonzalez , come out, come out, where ever you are."
 
I voted it's a bad idea. Her endless note taking is very disturbing. However, I realize I'm far too biased to ever give Casey or her team credit for anything. There's nothing they could do with her that would keep me from wanting to smack her across her lying mouth. Whether she's grinning, fake-crying, picking, pulling, twisting, smirking or writing, underneath it all she's nothing but a loathsome [unusual person]. I think a jury will look right through any attempts to cover her inherent nastiness and see her for what she is, a child killer.
 
Originally Posted by strawberry
I would love to see the part of the hearing where she flipped her pad upside down and was reading...can someone point me to it???

I'll try and find it for you :) It's classic!!

Finally found it!


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/S0meRand0mName#p/u/47/QerXo3dxLz8"]YouTube - S0meRand0mName's Channel[/ame]
Part 9 March 23, 2011

3:49 minute - upside down tablet
3:50 minute - flipping pages upside down
4:16 minute - staring intently at the upside down page
 

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Before the Inmate stared at her tablet upside down ... she stared at it sideways .....

And Sims was continuing on with her mind numbing rambling ... and Ashton had a look of "make her stop"!

9:37 minute
9:41 minute

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/S0meRand0mName#p/u/48/hmG5DLdmTTY"]YouTube - S0meRand0mName's Channel[/ame]
Part 8 March 23, 2011
 

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Before the Inmate stared at her tablet upside down ... she stared at it sideways .....

And Sims was continuing on with her mind numbing rambling ... and Ashton had a look of "make her stop"!

9:37 minute
9:41 minute

YouTube - S0meRand0mName's Channel
Part 8 March 23, 2011

I'm pretty sure I caught HHJP praying during that most painful questioning. JB gave a lunch order and reminded his girl to pick up his dry cleaning.
 
A little off topic, but does anyone remember scott peterson's demeanor
 
A little off topic, but does anyone remember scott peterson's demeanor

Yes, he was a debonair man of the world, looking sharp in his nice suit, hanging out with his smooth buddy Geragos, sneering at all the losers who would presume to judge him, bored by all the mourning for his dead, dull wife and unwanted baby, looking forward to getting the dreary legal charade over so he could be free to be fabulous again.
 
Doubt if the co-counseling will be played out in court. Once they start talking about Caylee---the nitty-gritty---blood and guts and being found in trash bags with duct tape wrapped to her face and the rotting of her baby driving around in the trunk and then thrown out like a bag of trash---once a name for the baby is said out loud in court with all the stuff they have on her---she will lose it. She doesnt have the connecting to Caylee right now but she did have feeling for her baby at sometime or other and it will all flood back.

i cant wait to see her whole being change---the look on her face. Doesn't matter how far she has removed herself---we will all be watching her face when it all hits her---and time is getting closer. Sometimes I can't wait to see that feeling running thru her body and then sometimes i enjoy the way she acts. The grin on a lair's face.

i may go to Hell because of the joy i will be feeling as she sits in her guilt. It may not last long---just long nuff for us to see it and then she will hurry and put it back--deep within her evil self. But i will see it in her face. I have been living for the day i can see that one moment.

She has had a train wreck and doesn't know it yet---but she will and soon
 
I mean hey, this baby girl came out of her body. She wont be able to hold it all like Peterson did. Her lies will be put forth and there won't be anywhere she can hid when she is reminded---we saw a smidgen of it that one day she lost it, and there wasn't much said that day---just wait.
 
Not to lead this too far astray, but what was Diane Downs' demeanor at trial?

I remember Scott Peterson--arrogant, aloof--and recently saw bits of the FL v. Sutton trial (again, arrogant, aloof). IMO DD and KC have a great deal in common. Wondering how she did in the courtroom? The below is all I can find... and I think KC's DT worry that something similar might occur in her case unless they can keep her distracted.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art69807.asp "During the trial, Downs was also visibly pregnant and displayed odd behavior in the courtroom, such as appearing to enjoy listening to Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf," which was said to have been playing on the car radio during the shootings."

(ETA: not so much that the DT is worried about KC appearing visibly pregnant, more the inappropriate reactions thing, IYKWIM)
 
BOUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN ICA AND DOWNS IS THAT DOWNS DID DRIVE HER KIDS TO THE er AND DIDNT WAIT 31 DAYS---BUT SHE PROBABLY FIGURED THEY WERE ALL DEAD. ODD HOW MUCH ALIKE THEY R
 
Not to lead this too far astray, but what was Diane Downs' demeanor at trial?

I remember Scott Peterson--arrogant, aloof--and recently saw bits of the FL v. Sutton trial (again, arrogant, aloof). IMO DD and KC have a great deal in common. Wondering how she did in the courtroom? The below is all I can find... and I think KC's DT worry that something similar might occur in her case unless they can keep her distracted.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art69807.asp "During the trial, Downs was also visibly pregnant and displayed odd behavior in the courtroom, such as appearing to enjoy listening to Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf," which was said to have been playing on the car radio during the shootings."

(ETA: not so much that the DT is worried about KC appearing visibly pregnant, more the inappropriate reactions thing, IYKWIM)

BBM-

Diane D. was very much disconnected. When the prosecutor played the music that was playing in the car when her children were shot *ahem-when SHE shot her children*, Diane was tapping the beat on the courtroom table. Can't get more cold than that! She was a hot mess - laughing, giggling, man-hunting while out on bail, and talking...endless talking about any thing other than her children. Sick woman and where she belongs.

I sat through that entire Peterson trial. I live local and won the lottery nearly every day to get in the courtroom. I wish you all could have seen what I saw. It's one thing to read about it- it's an entirely different thing to see it up close. He was a monster in a suit. Someone here said something very succinctly. He was sneering, glaring at times, gloating, and canoodling with his attorney just waiting for all of 'us' peons to get done with this pesky trial so he could go back to being a fabulous womanizer.

These trials are all just a hiccup in the road for these 'average' sociopaths. They are very common people, actually. Nothing extraordinary about them other than they can kill with no remorse unlike the rest of us. Clear as glass.

Having been to SP trial, Carey Stayner trial and Richard Farley trial, I can say that ICA is in the same compartment as these people. VOID- EMPTY VESSELS.
Having them in a locked cage is a safety net for all of us- no doubt.
 
janine, I take it then that we can assume that no matter what the DT tries to preoccupy KC with, those attempts will come across to the jury and observers as exactly what they are--sleight of hand--and that jurors will likely see through all attempts to "humanize" KC?

(I lived out there during Cary Stayner trial--but with so many of these sociopaths being male, it's hard IMO to calculate how a jury will perceive a female defendant.)

(PS--"a monster in a suit" fits KC to a tee IMO, no matter what they try to dress her in.)
 
janine, I take it then that we can assume that no matter what the DT tries to preoccupy KC with, those attempts will come across to the jury and observers as exactly what they are--sleight of hand--and that jurors will likely see through all attempts to "humanize" KC?

(I lived out there during Cary Stayner trial--but with so many of these sociopaths being male, it's hard IMO to calculate how a jury will perceive a female defendant.)

I can only speak from my own experiences in the court room and with having followed many trials- the answer is YES. :twocents: Most people have common sense and they are very practical when it comes to evidence, behaviors and presentation of that evidence.

It is what it is. In another thread here they are discussing the possibility of this trial going the way of MJ or OJ. These two cases were extraordinary for very obvious reasons. Not only being that they were in CA- but the defense capitalized on the their celebrity and made sure to relocate these trials to areas that maybe held some resentments towards LE- or that had a slant towards the defendants regardless of the crime. These two men were STARS in the eyes of society. ICA is a common little sociopath. She's a dime a dozen in the grand scheme of it all.

It's very common for onlookers to dissect all the possibilities and to engage in debate about all the slant that DT will throw out to muddy the waters........but at the end of the day- Common sense and logic comes through every time. We need to trust that MOST people feel like we all do and the one weak link will be 'taught' what they are missing, if in fact they get back in deliberations and find themselves against the grain.

We all see the obvious here. If it's red- there's no way to convince anyone that it's actually blue. But, it's our obligation as a civilized society to afford everyone a rigorous defense and Casey is no different. She will be defended to the best of her DT ability. It's the DT's job to try to trip up the SA. They need to poke as many holes in the case to ensure that the SA in fact has proven, to the standard of the law, that she is in fact guilty of this crime.

We all feel and believe she is but the LAW requires they PROVE she is. That's no small feat and the defense has to ensure that is done. Trust the process...........it's in place of a reason. This case is no different then the hundreds (thousands) that are found guilty every single day. The evidence is there. Trust.

IMO.
 
janine, I am so glad you started posting here!

Thank you- you are too kind.
I'm anxious to see how the SA lays the case out and I feel that all the speculation and 'proof' laid out on this site will make all the sense in the world at that time.

:tyou:
 
Before the Inmate stared at her tablet upside down ... she stared at it sideways .....

And Sims was continuing on with her mind numbing rambling ... and Ashton had a look of "make her stop"!

9:37 minute
9:41 minute

YouTube - S0meRand0mName's Channel
Part 8 March 23, 2011

Ashton wasn't the only one.....I was with him on that!!!!!!:banghead:
 
A little off topic, but does anyone remember scott peterson's demeanor
So glad you brought this up! IMO, this trial is the "biggest" one, media-wise, since Peterson was sent to Death Row.:bananajump: I still think of that trial and agree w/everyone's comments above re. SP's horrendously disgusting arrogance and also the way his PARENTS defended him!! I remember his dad Lee making an azz out of himself, shouting and then storming out of the courtroom during sentencing- also how I loved Brent Rocha's scathing comments to Scott during Victim's Impact statements ("I never liked you!...bought a gun, planned to KILL you!") I only wish that Lee Anthony could truly face down Casey in court and tell her what we all know that HE knows, that his lying sister MURDERED his precious niece. WHY won't any of the Anthonys STAND UP FOR CAYLEE???!! Just like Casey right now, there was a time when Scott had cameras on him and lawyers fawning over him and a family enabling him to the very end.... but look where he is now! Every once in a while, when it's a beautiful, sunny day, I will think to myself, "Hmmm, wonder what Scott Peterson is doing right now?? How's that tiny, smelly cell today? Play any rounds of golf lately, Scott? Fishing much?" HA. And, a year from now, when this trial is fading away, little miss Casey Anthony is going to be behind PRISON bars and she AIN'T gonna like it- no Target, no internet, no cameras, no take-out food delivered to her, and especially, no BOYS!! She and Scott are just alike, if you ask me. (Sorry if too O/T, MOO, IMO, etc.)
 
WHY won't any of the Anthonys STAND UP FOR CAYLEE???!!


Respectfully snipped....

Because they all might have conspired in one way or another (cover-up? remembering the hairbrush, cleaning the car, etc) and/or have blinders on? JMO
 
good strategy because it keeps ICA occupied so she doesn't make faces and twirl her hair and rub her palms. bad strategy because it's making her look so self-important and delusional like she thinks she is on the defense team (wait- maybe that's good?) it would be best if ICA could watch a dvd of some cartoons while the trial goes on so she won't be bored and grooming and fidgety.
 

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