CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #20

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sfbaynancydrew said:
Omg! There's a kidnapping attempt in April from Lone Tree and the perps look like the perps described by the little 8 year old the other day.
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Which one, the one in Brighton or the one in Aurora? I thought the little girl in Aurora said it was a black man and there was a passenger?
 
LotusPawprint said:
I don't remember what I had intended to post when I woke up this morning and I don't remember what I was going to post when I first started catching up on posts from last night. Eventually as more information comes out, I'd like to think some clarity will come. Though nothing will ever really be enough to understand WHY this monster did what he did. Instead with what's slowly coming out about AS, I'm getting more and more outraged. I know some people have expressed compassion for him, and have explained their feelings very well... I appreciate the capacity to have such broad perspectives not limited only to the obvious victims. For me personally I'm not capable of that in this case. The heinousness of this crime and how premeditated it was, how cold and detached AS is from his atrocious actions and complete disregard for this child's life... It's all anger. I felt very sad for the young man who was bullied and had a father who may not have been ideal. It's upsetting that he may have had untreated mental health issues, or problems with anger or self esteem. But the moment he turned all of that outward and made the conscious decision to violently attack the woman in May, failing, and the moment he snatched Jessica off the street ending her life in the most hideous way imagineable... each second he had her in his possession as he tortured that innocent child for whatever reason, whatever past, whatever neglect or pain HE may have suffered.... any sympathy I had for him was snuffed out just like Jessica's life was.

And now the next brutal phase begins for the Ridgeways. I imagine AS will take joy in taunting the family all over again, seeing LE and the judicial process make him the "star" of this show... I wonder if he realizes the pain he's caused his own family. I'd like to hear from a reporter who was in court if he looked at his mom and brother or reacted to them bawling their eyes out seeing him enter the courtroom shackled. My rational side knows the defense attorney has a job to do and the law only allows for certain punishments, but my stomach turns even hearing the defense ask for bond (clearly knew he wouldn't get this granted). That they will fight to get AS released as early as possible (or worse, off of the charges) is frightening. There are some good, moral defense attorneys and they all make the system go round but my goodness, in a case like this knowing that whoever represents this man will be advocating for him and his rights absolutely terrifies me. Whether they want him back out on the streets in 40 years or 5, I'm SO sick of the law protecting predators and endangering society after innocent victims are so callously slaughtered. And the most ironic, "good time" 2 for 1 or 3 for 1... "hey! you murdered victims and were sentenced to 90 years, but you didn't beat up any inmates and you mopped the floors real good, so we're gonna let you out after 30 years. Good luck and please don't kill anyone else!" Too many liberties for violent offenders. Why do "we" continue to allow this????

Vent. Rant. Over. For the moment.
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:clap::clap::clap: Thanks for your post.
 
I hate that it seems like some posts here are insinuating that the parents are to blame or maybe ignored signs..... They are victims of his actions just as much as JR's family is. No mother can imagine their child is capable of evils acts such as this. He probably put on an act in front of his loved ones so he could hide his dark side.

The mother turned her child in to the police KNOWING he would be put away for a looooong time. She is probably thinking of anything she may have missed in his behavior prior to this and blaming herself for not seeing the signs and taking action. Just like JR's mom was probably wishing she could go back in time and change that day. .... Both of these mothers will weigh heavy on my heart for a long time. It would be hell on earth to be in either of their shoes right now.
 
sassysleuth said:
Omg I'm sorry but really??!! At your neighbor and people like her. I don't have TV reception but I have a responsibility to not only myself but to my family. Willful ignorance is not only infuriating, it's dangerous. Willful ignorance contributes to horrible crimes such as this. The "I don't give a crap" mentality is just as bad as the crimes perpetrated IMO. Apathy is selfish and it only complicates the majority of problems. When are we going to learn?
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I know!She has two young kids, too. And we have a new RSO about 10 houses down. She is feeling vigilant against him, but there seem to be a TON of things she doesn't know about.
 
georgiagirl said:
I hate that it seems like some posts here are insinuating that the parents are to blame or maybe ignored signs..... They are victims of his actions just as much as JR's family is. No mother can imagine their child is capable of evils acts such as this. He probably put on an act in front of his loved ones so he could hide his dark side.
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Well said.
 
These lovelies were arrested for the attempted Lone Tree abductions of two girls riding bikes. FYI Guess what they were driving???? Yep a white van

http://kdvr.com/2012/04/29/photos-released-of-suspects-in-attempted-abduction-of-lone-tree-girls/

Sorry that article had their pictures

This article has the arrest.

http://kdvr.com/2012/04/27/attempted-child-abduction-reported-in-lone-tree/

:what: Police didn’t know about it because the parents didn’t report it to them.:what:
They first heard about it from FOX31 Denver, who called police to check out an email tip.
Then, police had to find the family–who confirmed the story Thursday.

“It could be suspicious because it wasn’t reported. But once we looked into it, and once we followed up with our leads, spoke with the girls and family, we came to a conclusion very quickly that it was a very credible incident,” says Lone Tree Police Chief Stephen Hasler.

A picture of the van captured by surveillance camera led police to arrest two suspects Friday night. They’re identified as: passenger Raymond Desrosiers, 58, and driver Monte Greenwald, 57.
 
I agree georgiagirl ... there are many goth kids, kids who collect knives, kids who have a facination with serial killers, death, or science, kids who are gamers, kids who are "weird" ..... that never kill and dismember anybody.

To suggest that this mother should have known that her child was going to abduct, kill, and dismember a little girl is ridiculous ..

imo
 
ZhaZhaHa said:
Which one, the one in Brighton or the one in Aurora? I thought the little girl in Aurora said it was a black man and there was a passenger?
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Yes the Aurora one... I thought she said a black and white man. Just looks suspiciously similar.
 
"And re: older kids playing with younger. Not always bad but I guess you'd have to be there to get the vibe yourself, my 18 yo would play with neighbor boys IF they came over - guessing they are 12 and 15, but then again, they were shooting hoops and playing football and my youngest was there."

When my brother and I were in gradeschool, a boy four or five years older that lived next to us used to play with us sometimes. We built snow forts and stuff like that. I think it was because, sadly, he was the only black kid in our neighborhood and we were the only ones who would play with him. He was nice and never gave us any reason to be wary, but I know that when an older kid wants to play with younger kids, that can sometimes be a red flag and sometimes with good reason. Some other boys about the same number of years older than me once lured me into the creek area because they said they saw some crawdads. I was always up for a crawdad hunt! But they ended up holding me down and taking turns kicking me. I'm lucky I wasn't seriously injured or killed.
 
sfbaynancydrew said:
Yes the Aurora one... I thought she said a black and white man. Just looks suspiciously similar.
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The suspects they have are both old white men. They were using a white van. The suspect in Aurora had a green SUV, like an older Chevy Blazer, if I recall?
 
ZhaZhaHa said:
I know!She has two young kids, too. And we have a new RSO about 10 houses down. She is feeling vigilant against him, but there seem to be a TON of things she doesn't know about.
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Ha, before we move to a new area I always check out the watchdog site to see the number of RSOs within a ten mile radius. Before kids I never did, and after I did I checked out the site and nearly had a heart attack! There were ten within walking distance of our house and one only a block away! I warned my sister in law about that one because she was thinking about moving to that complex and she didn't seem to care. I worry about her daughter. The last time I saw her she had dyed black hair and walked alone, right past this guy's townhouse, to the bus stop. She wore make up, teen clothes, etc. and wasn't even eleven. Her own townhouse was located on the other side of the complex so she had no way of looking out for her. The bus stop was located next to a very busy street. The whole thing made me angry at my sister in law, angry at our court system, angry at our city for not better organizing safety measures for schoolchildren. Nobody takes responsibility until it is too late.

To further elaborate on my television situation, we have a nice tv but choose not have cable etc. because we dislike commercials. The kids watch DVDs chosen by us and we watch our shows streaming on the computer. Still, it astounds me how I don't have a tv and I'm more informed on current events than people with cable. In other words, there is NO excuse.
 
TreeClimbingGirl said:
Now that this psycho is in custody, I feel comfortable sharing something that I haven't been able to talk about publicly before now. Just be warned that it's seriously disturbing.

I called in a tip at the beginning of this investigation-one that I thought was a long shot, but after learning about Austin Sigg, I think there may have been something to it.

First, for a bit of background-I am writing a book, based loosely on my own life experiences, and one of the characters is a sexual predator. In an attempt to create a realistic composite, I explored some of the forums on the so-called "dark web". The "dark web", for those who don't know, is a kind of "secret internet" that can only be accessed through a special browser. You can read more about it here:

http:///insider/2012/10/08/mail-ord...ourney-into-the-dark-corners-of-the-deep-web/

http:///drugs-child-*advertiser censored*-hit-men-minutes-deep-web/16331

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-new-underbelly-20120531-1zktt.html


Before I go any further, I just want to clarify that at NO POINT did I view any type of child *advertiser censored* or illegal content in the course of my research. The forums I went to were text only, although child *advertiser censored* was linked to-I obviously did not follow those links. I also installed image block just to be on the safe side. I am a sexual abuse survivor so reading about this stuff was hard enough, it is certainly not anything I wanted to see.

What I found was beyond disturbing. First, let's get the pictures out of the way. Like I said, I didn't view them personally but by reading the dialogue around the linked images, the nature of the content was very apparent. I knew going into this that there was some horrible stuff out there, but I had no idea how bad it was. In particular, while I knew child *advertiser censored* and degrading adult *advertiser censored* existed, I did not realize that there is an actual genre of both adult and child *advertiser censored* called "hurt-core" that features both adults and children being tortured and sexually abused in ways too horrific to even describe. These are not staged-these are real people-including children-being raped and abused for the purpose of "entertainment" Worse yet-there are actual snuff films. In fact, Luca Magnotta's infamous video was marketed and passed around on the dark web before it surfaced on the mainstream web. And it is far from the only video like that out there. And it's not just that these images exist-there is an actual market for them. There is a demand for what they call "original content". There are guides on how to produce child *advertiser censored*, how to groom and sexually abuse children, not to mention online marketplaces for everything from illegal weapons to drugs to hit men.

But, back to the tip that I called in...One of the most disturbing thing I found was on a particular board, a social forum for self described "pedo-sadists" :)furious::furious::furious:), there was a discussion several pages long, that shook me to my core.


(Again-warning this is graphic and horrible)

It began with the OP lamenting that he had tried to abduct a child from a strip mall parking lot, but was unsuccessful because she screamed and he was afraid he would get caught. What followed was many, many pages of advice and discussion about how to successfully pull off a child abduction.

One of the suggestions was to use chloroform.


There were also tips on where you could find a child who would be easiest to abduct-one of the suggestions?

Look for children walking to or from school, alone.

Then there was one poster, who called himself "an experienced predator". His advice was very detailed and explicit-he said that once you "successfully" abduct a child, you should follow certain protocol. First, you should take them to an isolated location. You do NOT take them to your home-that is too risky. Instead, he suggested finding an enclosure in the middle of an isolated area-like a shack, or an abandoned industrial space. He gave advice on how to not leave DNA evidence, how to keep a child subdued and silent (dosing them with GHB was his suggestion). And in summation he warned that you should not try this unless you were prepared to-in his words-eliminate all of the evidence. He advised strangulation as the easiest and cleanest method, but only after restraining them-so that they couldn't fight back and leave you with any scratch marks or injuries that you would have to explain later. He said that it was surprisingly easy to kill a child, although you will probably feel guilty about it for a while, but that would get easier over time. Other posters gave advice on how to destroy your DNA-one of the suggestions given was to cut off the hands (in case your DNA was under their fingernails) and wash the body with bleach.

Not only were these people giving advice-they were ENCOURAGING people to do this, and take pictures or at least come back and share their experiences. One of the last posts I read was from the OP, who said he had followed a child walking home from school, but that they kept looking back at him and he lost his nerve. They encouraged him to try again. This was about 5 months ago.

When I found out about Jess, the first thing I did was try to try and find that same forum-to see if anyone was bragging about "pulling it off", and also so that I could send a link to WPD. The thing is, these sites move around a lot so it was impossible to find. I did send a tip to WPD, just describing what I had read as best I could remember, thinking it was a long shot but still a possible avenue to explore.

Then, when I found out about the condition of her body, and saw how close the dump site was to that abandoned mine shaft-the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I gave another tip-this time to the FBI cyber tip line.

Now that more information has come out, I feel almost positive that this could have been related. We know that AS was a hacker and an online gamer-which means he was tech-savvy. Hackers, in particular, use the dark web as their personal playground. We know he sought counseling for an addiction to *advertiser censored*-and I'm guessing that it wasn't for reading too many playboy magazines. He has a fascination with death, and would have found plenty of material on there to keep him entertained. We know that, at least in the Ketner Lake case, he used chloroform or a similar type of chemical. He picked Jessica up walking to school, like they suggested. He hog tied her and strangled her. And now there is information coming out to suggest that he may have at least dismembered her in the open space. If he wasn't utilizing some of the "advice" given in that forum, that is one hell of a coincidence.

I can also see how someone like Austin would be drawn to one of these forums. As a social outcast, as someone who felt emasculated-by his high pitched voice, by his violent father, bullied and made to feel weak-he would have found a place where he could be anyone he wanted to be. Where he would have surely been treated like a "big man" for doing something like this. In a forum where depravity is not only socially acceptable-but REWARDED-he could be “popular” for the first time in his life.

I think when they examine Austin’s computer, they will find that he was a TOR/dark web user, that he visited and probably even participated in the forum I mentioned, and that he viewed and probably downloaded massive amounts of gore and “hurt-core” *advertiser censored*-both child and adult. I think they will also find photographic and video documentation of his crimes. I think he may have even shared it, if he was brazen enough.

I will say this-reading that forum was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I could not sleep for days, because I just knew in my gut that it was more than just idle talk. And before anyone asks-yes, I reported this particular forum to the cybertipline, but the truth is the FBI already monitors these sites, and there is very little they can do to stop it. These people hide behind the cover of anonymity, under the cloak of free speech. They are pathetic, sniveling cowards.

Of course, I don't know for sure if Austin Reed Sigg was involved in any of this stuff-but if he was, he wasn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last.

This is what keeps me up at night. We have always known that predators walk among us. But the dark web means they no longer have to exist in isolation. They now have their own alternate universe where social norms are turned on their head- where evil is seen as a virtue, and there are hundreds of like-minded people feeding off of each other, normalizing and encouraging their darkest thoughts and impulses. It's a social hierarchy built on one-upsmanship, with each new shocking image or story leading to demands for more. It's like a heroin addict always chasing that first high-and it takes more and more depravity to satisfy their urges. It is a zero-sum game-and our children are the game pieces.
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Holy.......! I wish I could un-know this. I guess it's better, on some really awful level, to know the true depths of horror that exist... for some reason.... right? Surely we're supposed to learn something from this? I'm not sure what. Oh my goodness. Please please be very gentle to yourself, how traumatic this is and whatever else you read.... come talk to us, do something, anything, so you're not alone with this in your mind. This is so much worse than the darkest things I have heard of before. Sick....:furious:
 
ZhaZhaHa said:
MSM is saying they are indeed her remains.

Colorado gives a count for the murder and a count for...somebody else said it in the last thread....organizing or intent to murder? I cannot remember now. Sheesh, it's MY state, too!
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One for allegedly intending to cause harm and another for allegedly acting with extreme indifference to human life. So 2 counts for 1 murder.
 
georgiagirl said:
But that would taint the jury pool.. IF this does go to trial then WHERE will they find jurors in CO that don't have knowledge and opinion about this case? Under a rock?

I am very curious about the details too but I don't want him getting off an a technicality.
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Good point, it's just very frustrating. It's not a curiosity that I want the facts, I want them to try and understand and protect my little girl.
 
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