CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

[girlhasnoname]

Is the actual cell phone in the Hans of LE?

I thought I heard it was recovered so I think yes. I will add a disclaimer that I was frantic trying to process the fast moving thread.

 

[NanZDrew]

I missed that. Thanks!!

To me, it makes sense. If the murder was on Thanksgiving, some time prior to that he would have had to plan. I suspect that they have some type of correspondence that goes back from the date of Thanksgiving and on before that may have led them to the other party.

 

[bestill]

I think the problem might be that PF has been charged with solicitation to commit murder. If evidence relates to testimony from a witness, the prosecution has good reason to worry that PF may attempt to have that witness murdered. Ultimately, PF will have access to all the evidence, full disclosure, but at this time full disclosure may result in endangering someone.

Wonder if he's already tried or threatened them.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

All of this is just so heart breaking. Poor KB. I can’t imagine how scared she must have been, not just for herself, but for her child.

I can’t help but wonder where Baby K was in all of this. Did all of this go down with her present? If not, she must have been watched by someone... either SF or a to be named other player possibly.

The felony murder is perplexing to me. As was mentioned by someone a few pages back- if baby K was present, should PF have ordered KB to hand over the baby and her phone with threat of shooting her or ?, would that have been enough for this charge? If that is how it went down, I would not be surprised if a female was present to take baby K out of the house before KB was killed. This person may also be the informant on order of events.

I have a bad feeling PFs family is more involved in all of this than we think. Whether that be simply covering for him or possibly connecting him to people who could help take care of KB. MOO

 

[NanZDrew]

What if it was a Frazee heirloom engagement ring (like from one of Patrick's grandmothers) and Kelsey wouldn't return it because she wanted the relationship to work?

Possibly, if the relationship ever got that far. I just doubt Patrick's sincerity towards any woman. I think he is incapable of love.

 

[NanZDrew]

I remember one of our attorneys mentioning that he could not take the baby by force. I wonder if he decided he was taking the baby by force and KB tried to stop him.

 

[Trudie]

I’m pretty sure the “possible clue” was just that there were cinnamon rolls left out and not put up. The reporter wouldn’t have any kind of information about a piece of evidence relating to the cinnamon rolls and no one in law enforcement is going to be giving vague hints like that.

ETA: I think the writer was just being creative with their wording. Cinnamon rolls were left out. That’s it.

Is it possible the clue could be a drop or two of fluid found on a floor? The chemicals to extract dna would (I guess) erode the sample?
I’m skeptical about clues in the condo because K’s family entered w/o LE, correct?

 

[LietKynes]

Fleeing? Why do you think they were fleeing? They could have been headed to his attorney’s office or the grocery store or a restaurant. I’ve never heard that they refused to say where they were going.

Haha !
Maybe "Traveling separately" sounds better ??
MOO they were going somewhere in two vehicles, why not go together ?
Haven't been able to find out if they said where they were headed.
Who knows ?
Pure speculation and naught else..... carry on.

 

[PommyMommy]

Right, so I'm not sure where this robbery thing is coming from lol Even his attorney doesn't know what the prosecution has or what they think happened.

I think it's irresponsible of the media to keep saying "attempted robbery" when I didn't hear that in the video from court this morning, and I have not read that in the 2 page document that has been shared here and elsewhere with the list of charges. There is also no robbery or attempted robbery charge listed in the 5.

The media is reporting on what the District Attorney said in the press conference. As I understand it, the two first-degree murder counts are a result of evidence that PF premeditated Kelsey's murder, and that he killed her during an attempted robbery which was also premeditated.

I could be wrong. It's been a crazy morning!

MOO

 

[x_files]

I just got an idea. Agriculture.

We assume that KB had many job options but was tied up to CO because her child's dad lived there.

The opposite was also true. PF's farm was not thriving. There is a chance that he could have found a better job option somewhere else, could move his mom, too.

But they both, KB and PF, were tied up to CO by being the parents of the kid.

And I suspect - MOO - that they were not engaged any longer. It is possible that the inner anger PF felt towards KB (because you have to be very angry to resort to violent murder) was because "I am good enough to be the father of her child, but not good enough to marry me". At least I hope KB understood something about PF towards the end.

But that was not the reason he killed her. He killed her because KB somehow stood in his way.

It could be equally, her looking for a new job and linked custody issues, or him looking to move but being unable to because of custody.

Could very well be true.
Some men view their children as property rather than human beings and maybe didn't want to deal with the mother anymore. disgusting. It seems the theme of control and viewing others as property is a running theme with gf/wife/spouse murders

 

[Mauig’ma]

I wonder if the 2 men seen with PF at the dump are involved?

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

I just finished listening to the court hearing from this morning, I thought it was interesting wording from the judge, that the lawyer could not discuss the document with his lawyer, they didn't say he couldn't read it. Weird lol I thought the lawyer was going to get it today, but the hearing on Friday would decide if he could discuss it with PF.

This concerns me a bit. I really hope this doesn’t bite them in the butt later and give PF grounds for mistrial.

Not being able to discuss with PF and PF only can have contact with family currently. Makes you wonder... MOO

 

[Trudie]

Sounds like he could have put it on Craig's list at this rate! Sheesh!

Or a group text? Levity aside, maybe the first person he asked declined & said “but I might know someone.....”, & scouted around to pass the word.

 

[missy1974]

The media is reporting on what the District Attorney said in the press conference. As I understand it, the two first-degree murder counts are a result of evidence that PF premeditated Kelsey's murder, and that he killed her during an attempted robbery which was also premeditated.

I could be wrong. It's been a crazy morning!

MOO

I might have to go back and listen to that press conference, I am sure I was reading about attempted robbery and him being charged with robbery before that, but I could be wrong too lol I was trying to catch up when court started this morning Thanks for all your help and continuing to post links!

 

[LietKynes]

Trying to catch up on this speedy moving thread! QUOTE]

SFB &BBM
Agreed.

 

[BingoBongo]

Trying to catch up on this speedy moving thread! I was thinking about that too. Just imagine being arrested, sitting in jail - no bond, and not being able to see what lead to your charges? Don't get me wrong I think he's guilty but this does concern me.

I believe the defense knows, and has shared with him, what led to the charges.

My understand is that the prosecution wants it publicized at this point.

 

[Ultra Violet]

I read in one of the articles today that he would see it this afternoon. I'll look for it, but meanwhile, there's this one:

Prosecutors file charges against Patrick Frazee in connection with disappearance of Kelsey Berreth
Judge Linda Billings-Vela ruled that Frazee's arrest affidavit will remain unavailable to the public, but the defense will be able to look at it.

And this...
More charges, 6th Amendment debate: Patrick Frazee's court appearance recap
Prosecutors asked for a hold of seven to 10 days before Frazee could see the affidavit, but that matter, along with the motion about the evidence testing, will be discussed at a hearing this coming Friday at 1:30 p.m.

ETA: Here's the one I was looking for.
Kelsey Berreth may have been killed during robbery, Patrick Frazee facing five murder charges | Daily Mail Online
The prosecution also revealed that the arrest warrant in the case must remain sealed, noting that publication of the details could 'seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation.'

Frazee and his lawyers will see that warrant for the first time on Monday afternoon, and may after that decide to enter a plea in the case.

The reporting is all over the place as usual!

Just in case it helps, here is the DA saying that his counsel will have it today. Starts at 8:00 in this press conference video.

 

[KBB87]

Is it possible the clue could be a drop or two of fluid found on a floor? The chemicals to extract dna would (I guess) erode the sample?
I’m skeptical about clues in the condo because K’s family entered w/o LE, correct?

The thing is no one else referred to a clue except that one article. LE never said “there was a clue in the baked good.” It was just how that one article phrased it. I think they were just being clever with their wording.

“A possible clue in a baked good” = cinnamon rolls were left on the counter, IMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Colorado man charged with murdering his missing fiancée
A charge sheet released Monday suggests that Frazee may have ordered a robbery between Sept. 1 and Dec. 1, which resulted in Berreth's murder. Under Colorado law, if a person dies during the commission of a crime, that is equivalent to murder, 4th Judicial District Attorney Dan May said during a press conference on Monday.

“Obviously, there’s only one murder in this case. Under Colorado law, we file separate counts under different theories of first-degree murder,” May said.

May said the law requires the prosecution to differentiate between its theories of murder. One theory from the prosecution says Berreth was killed during the commissioning of a crime. The other says Frazee premeditated the killing of Berreth.

Because the case is still being investigated, and it is possible other people could be charged in Berreth's disappearance, all affidavits in the case are still sealed. Because of this, it is unclear what evidence the prosecution has against Frazee.

However, May said the judge overseeing Frazee's case has seen the arrest affidavit and believes there is probable cause to charge Frazee with first-degree murder.

May declined to specify if Frazee allegedly conspired with one or more people and the charges do not specify who those people might be.

 

[missy1974]

I believe the defense knows, and has shared with him, what led to the charges.

My understand is that the prosecution wants it publicized at this point.

That's not what I understand from today's hearing. The defense has yet to see the arrest warrant but will see it today.