GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

[AbbyG]

The detectives told him they thought the girls were killed before Shannann came home but did not elsborate why. What you just stated is probably one of the many reasons they think that.

I have to agree. I think we want to believe it was after because of the chance that Shan'ann discovered he had murdered her dear children, but all evidence points to his having killed their daughters first. "Those kids," as he kept deflecting. I wonder if it was already done when she asked for photos of the girls sleeping, and he couldn't provide that. And again, when he was grilling on his own. The one issue pointing to later is stomach contents? How many hours had to have passed since pizza I wonder. Despite having read about it on these many, many threads again and again, it is still so shocking and vile, so impossible to reconcile it all.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm sure this was discussed around the time of sentencing but I missed it. Was Jayme Watts, the sister, in the court room? Was she the bleach blonde heavy woman in the shiny green jacket and the chunky gold necklace sitting next to the lawyer?

 

[TootsieBell]

This is a truly heartbreaking case. I’ve read a lot of the posts and may have missed it but do we know what NK job role was/is? I’m assuming she is still employed by them but that has got to be a difficult thing to go back to!

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Well I must not be remembering it right because I thought for sure they described it as dark gray or grayish purple. And I thought Chris said it was black. I'm just skeptical of Radar on line because the sheet looks all white and I thought it had blue stripes in it.

The sheet that accompanied her clothing in the chain of evidence was white with dirt all over and red stains; it was placed under her body in the cadaver bag after she was recovered to preserve possible evidence (Discovery pages 109, 250, 1076). Not that you shouldn't be skeptical of Radar Online anyway

 

[AbbyG]

Amber did not make a cent on interviews or articles at the time she could have made the most. That is between the time when the police announced her presence in Scott's life and April when Laci was found. And later, before Laci was found and the court. It was not forbidden, her coworkers sold their stories about her. But not Amber. At first, she hoped that Laci would be found, and later, when she believed that Laci was dead, she did want to neggatively affect the court process. So, she did not make half of the money she could have.
Most people she ever met were supportive of her because her actions were dictated by compassion.
BTW, Scott complained of his share of one-night stands and bimbos during Laci's pregnancy, so I doubt that him killing Laci had much to do with Amber. It had a lot to do with Laci's life policy that he cashed on, and he did not want own child. Ever.

I know we cannot go deep into other cases but since Amber comes up in light of this case and you seem to know much more about it that I do, I wonder if I can ask one question that has always baffled me -- if he wanted freedom and did not want his own children, why was he so good to Amber's child? why not find someone without a kid? He seemed massively intoxicated by Amber similarly to CW's fixation on NK, ramping things up way too fast -- Amber was innocent but swept away so quickly, he was her knight in shining armor. Why was he so seemingly willing to be a stepfather? it baffles me.

 

[Tortoise]

IIRC it was in the two hour interrogation video. Towards the end they started telling him they did not believe him and thought the girls were dead before she came home.

Thank you. It wouldn't have been in the polygraph vids, don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. I'm surprised I missed that.

 

[AbbyG]

This is a truly heartbreaking case. I’ve read a lot of the posts and may have missed it but do we know what NK job role was/is? I’m assuming she is still employed by them but that has got to be a difficult thing to go back to!

She was also fired. She was an 'environmentalist' there but I will try to find where i read her exact job, which sounded mundane.

 

[mrjitty]

I have to agree. I think we want to believe it was after because of the chance that Shan'ann discovered he had murdered her dear children, but all evidence points to his having killed their daughters first. "Those kids," as he kept deflecting. I wonder if it was already done when she asked for photos of the girls sleeping, and he couldn't provide that. And again, when he was grilling on his own. The one issue pointing to later is stomach contents? How many hours had to have passed since pizza I wonder. Despite having read about it on these many, many threads again and again, it is still so shocking and vile, so impossible to reconcile it all.

The cadaver dog evidence points to them all being killed and quickly removed.

I think if he killed the girls in the early evening and removed them approx 10 hrs later you'd get hits

 

[The Farm]

Thank you. It wouldn't have been in the polygraph vids, don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. I'm surprised I missed that.

There is just so much material I think out brains are on overload and we read/see it but it flies right out.

 

[x_files]

Those of us who have had the unfortunate circumstance to have had up close and personal relationships with someone with NPD are no doubt recognizing language and behavior that seems eerily and uncomfortably familiar. It is almost as if all these folks have been reading from the same manual on how to love bomb unsuspecting romantic partners. Reading the cards and messages feels like “deja vu all over again”. I fully expect that CW used exactly the same phrases with SW when he was first pursuing her. I am sure he trotted out what “worked” and used it again with NK and AP before her. I also believe like others have said he got most of those sentiments from songs, movies, poems, other people. He would have none of his own, though he would lie to himself that he was the original author of all of the flowery loving language. In my own experience, I saw the exact same words used with the new supply after I was discarded. It is not easy to recover from a relationship with person with NPD. It takes a lot of time (years) and self-care and -compassion. The silver lining is the wisdom that comes from the traumatic experience. I only wish SW had been given the opportunity to grow and flourish in the aftermath of her marriage to a narc.

I agree they aren't very creative but great mimics. I found a black book left at my apt. by an MNPD/psychopathic man, I was dating. He wrote down quotes from books, movies that he felt worked on women. He was insincere but sure mimicked a genuine human being. Everything about him was fake.
He claims he never dreamed but would watch movies about men who dreamt and write down their dreams so to not appear odd. He genuinely didn't seem to understand humans and their emotions and took field notes on how to manipulate people into getting what he wanted.
He said, "when I was little I had no sense of self so I wrote down my favorite movie characters and copied them." He thought this was normal behavior to not have a sense of self or a core identity. He thought everyone put on masks every day a new and different one for each person.
He would study his target for up to a year in advance having multiple victims or targets lined up in case another one didn't work out.
Here I thought he wrote these romantic poems only to find them in his Black Book from other books/films.
He stalked me, studied me for two years in advance knew my work, college class schedules, everything even befriended friends to quiz them on my favorite color, music/art, food etc...so when we spoke I thought wow, we have so much in common it was all a mask, a game, a fake identity. When the mask finally came off it was the exact opposite and frightening. When he knew I wasn't buying his bs anymore was the dangerous moment. He feared I'd expose him to others.

 

[Steelhead]

JMO but I wonder if that’s why the photo and video discovery (second round) has been so stunted. Maybe the Kessingers threatened to sue if they released her photos? Just an idea. They seem to be trying to keep her image as clean as possible.

As well they should. She had nothing to do with the murders.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the mother mentally abused him, thus the inability to talk as one of his teacher said. Then her criticism of Shanann planted seeds in his mind that she was as his mother said "shady". This all played into this. You think this would have happened if his mother had loved Shanann especially since she gave them 2 beautiful grandchildren and they all respected one another like most families do? I don't think it would have, he would have been happy in his marriage. Mothers have great influence over their adult sons.

While we were in shutdown mode a couple of times,( I alerted to the last post on the last thread to tell everybody to come over to this new one as I think some people could not find us here) I went back to read the post from one of the verified Insiders.

Every. Single. Post.

I also saw criticism and planted seeds now that we know what we know looking back.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Thank you. It wouldn't have been in the polygraph vids, don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. I'm surprised I missed that.

Page 541

 

[MsBetsy]

I saw that her new lawyer was specifically a type of lawyer for libel. That maybe think she was perhaps looking after a book deal ( or do an exclusive tell all) to see what she could say legally without being slanderous or libelous, because why else would she get that type of a specific lawyer.

I would think she was looking for a way to sue news sources that are implicating her in the murder or saying things that are not true. That was the one thing she was so concerned about. Imo

 

[mrjitty]

That documentary left out tons of evidence. The best way to learn about that case is to actually read the case facts.

Agree

The Knox Netflix documentary is laughable for example. Ditto the Mark Williams Thomas doco on Pistorius.

Without going into guilt/innocence, if you demonstrably can't get primary facts correct in your doco, then it might as well go in the bin as far as serious analysis is concerned.

 

[scdiv]

I can't remember what video it was in, but before they confronted CW, Agent Tammy asks CW if they find SW and the girls murdered, what does he think should happen to the person who did it.

And he gives a cold, clinical, non-emotional answer that then they should get the death penalty or if Colorado doesn't really do that, then life in prison. But no emotion or anger like how he would want them dead or suffer or what he would want to do to the person who did this to his family.

Which of course he didn't have that emotion because he is the guilty one! But even more was telling that if he was going to blame this on SW, he should have been all, "I would want to do to them the exact thing they did to my daughters, those were my kids."

My favorite part of the polygraph video is when awesome Tammy says, "Wow, the good news is, you are a horrible liar! Has anyone ever told you that? That was awesome. If you lie it will be really easy to tell!"

 

[Tortoise]

The cadaver dog evidence points to them all being killed and quickly removed.

I think if he killed the girls in the early evening and removed them approx 10 hrs later you'd get hits

I agree, without a doubt.

I'm also fairly convinced now since watching his interrogation that he killed Shanann in the master bed. It explains his nonsense story that he put her back in her bed after she was dead and pulled the sheet up. By that time he had to be thinking that the dogs made a hit in the house, while he was on the porch, whether they did or not.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I have to agree. I think we want to believe it was after because of the chance that Shan'ann discovered he had murdered her dear children, but all evidence points to his having killed their daughters first. "Those kids," as he kept deflecting. I wonder if it was already done when she asked for photos of the girls sleeping, and he couldn't provide that. And again, when he was grilling on his own. The one issue pointing to later is stomach contents? How many hours had to have passed since pizza I wonder. Despite having read about it on these many, many threads again and again, it is still so shocking and vile, so impossible to reconcile it all.

I read it takes 6 hours to completely digest stomach contents. Bella had oil in her stomach, if there was undigested food it was probably not preserved.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I still think NK was aware that he planned to kill them. I have zero proof or evidence, but I wouldn't be shocked if she knew in advance or even asked him to prove his love to her.

I keep going back to the same thought. Chris is a guy who has to be led around by a woman, cannot think on his own. Dumb, dumb criminal. Sociopath. And yet we are to believe he planned the murders all on his own? I believe he was “led” and was just crazy stupid in detail and cover up. It’s hard to believe but she comes across with the same personality disorders, so why not?

 

[Really?]

I posted this earlier in the media thread - mostly just a recap of what we discuss.

Christopher Watts lied, cheated prior to murdering family

One of the cards CW gave NK - thought it was the interesting that the focus was all on having "firsts." The first time I saw you, the first time, etc. And that they can still have new FIRSTS together. My speculation was that NK had been voicing how she wouldn't have those "firsts" with him - the first wedding, the first house, the first couch, the first pregnancy, the first births, etc. etc. All those things a single girl hasn't had that her married (or divorced) boyfriend has already done. I bet it was a conversation where she had expressed her issues about that. And so that's what prompted this card. He didn't want her to walk away.

I just don’t think the “ firsts” were as innocent as a couch or a kiss. Just imo