DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #13

[BellaVita]

I'm anal, if I was identifying a bad guy for future LE to help identify a , I'd circle what I needed. I don't know if that's what they're supposed to do, but the way it looks like it may have been written that way on the form to conserve space? Otherwise, it's useless to help in visual identification to lump those together as one.

FYI. I provided a link a page or two back. It's done that way because MD is conducting statistical studies in regards to racial profiling. It makes no sense to me either. LEO are supposed to lump all 4 descriptors into one category. The 3 white officers in the Freddie Grey case-and no offense to anyone, but they appear VERY white, fair skin are also listed as white/arab/Asian. There is no appearance of any physical description that would fit beyond Caucasian. IMO.I thought I'd found something interesting until I investigated further. In other words, in the state of MD, if you are not id'd as American Indian, Hispanic, African American or OTHER(whatever that is), you are lumped into Caucasian/White/Arab/Asiatic Indian. Strange, but true. IMO.

 

[facundo]

Good eye! This is the gal who popped DW in the face? I think just coincidence because if there was any connection between JW and this lady, it would make JW more of a target for DW to set up rather than to collaborate with in this.

It never occurred to me that an arrestee who would lie about his height and weight wouldn't lie about his race! Again, good eye!

DW lies about everything. He may have lied about not being a resident alien to avoid being reported to ICE. Also many police departments do not report arrests and convictions to ICE. Federal Law "authorizes" reporting but many states do not routinely report these to ICE. If he only provided his MD driver's license as ID, police would not know he was a resident alien. His native tongue is English so he may not have a foreign accent.

 

[kammiemc]

The blind men and the elephant! Eats, Shoots and Leaves!

Oh, my gosh! LOL, I think maybe most of us did, too. I lovelovelove it when someone shows me a perfectly reasonable explanation for their interpretation of a simple fact! Whee!

"A red lined bag" depending on how it's written could be:

A bag with red lines.
A bag that has a red lining, outer color unknown.
A bag designed and sold by a brand called Redline.

There could be more...

Haha. So true! If it was small enough to fit into an envelope, maybe it was just a red line, that was a bag. Jk


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[rkf]

I know we are not sure at what point the broken glass/boot print happened, but if LE had thoroughly checked the property, they'd have seen that if it had been there at that time. Probable cause to go in at that point?

The boot print might not have been visible until LE dusted for fingerprints. IDK.

 

[OliveEliot]

I'm really intrigued by the racial/ethnic categorization on the LE documents (and btw thank you to those who pointed out that the four categories were lumped together with one check box. That made the choice of that category for W1 make more sense to me. I thought LE had written in by hand all four categories). It would appear LE there are using older racial classifications than what have been used in Census information in the U.S. since 1977. The reason I say this is because their "White/Caucasian/Asian Indian/Arab" includes Asian Indians, who, since at least 1977 have been defined officially in the U.S. as Asian, rather than as white/Caucasian, and since it uses the term "Arab" which has since then been supplanted by reference to people with origins in the Middle East.

Here is a link with a definition of the race and ethnicity categories according to the Office of Management and Budget (this sets out the official categories for the census). You'll note that the "White" category includes people having origins in the Middle East and North Africa. Oftentimes in U.S. history (and European history) the term "Caucasian" has included people of the Middle East and the Asian subcontinent, based in part on linguistics (Hindi is part of the Indo-European language system). The whole issue of racial terminology is, of course, incredibly complicated, but I thought it might help to indicate that the racial category "White" in the U.S. does not exclusively refer to those with "white" skin color.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards/

 

[Carolyn1963]

I wish LE would release more info!!!!'




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[emmavoberry]

Reply to
rkf's excellent post upthread re: NG

Truly a wonderfully expressed and well-argued case for our discussing NG as a possible suspect. I don't agree that she should be identified personally as we theorize about an insider, but I am one little member and I have had my day in court on this issue. It's obvious that I've misread and misinterpreted the MOD statement. It's tuff when we are getting so few facts to hold discussion at all. Limiting ourselves to hashing and re-hashing JW/DW +"friends" is stifling, especially to those who find NG's behavior/statements to press suspect.
That accounts for many involved in discussion; Let me not be the Grinch! It seems no one is letting me anyways.
Could we refer to her as "the Butler?"

PS compelling pers. example diving case--going to re-read that part

 

[Keefer]

I don't think we have to call anyone a suspect in order to discuss their actions.i do find it odd that some people want to tell others what to opine about...

Truly a wonderfully expressed and well-argued case for our discussing NG as a possible suspect. I don't agree that she should be identified personally as we theorize about an insider, but I am one little member and I have had my day in court on this issue. It's obvious that I've misread and misinterpreted the MOD statement. It's tuff when we are getting so few facts to hold discussion at all. Limiting ourselves to hashing and re-hashing JW/DW +"friends" is stifling, especially to those who find NG's behavior/statements to press suspect.
That accounts for many involved in discussion; Let me not be the Grinch! It seems no one is letting me anyways.
Could we refer to her as "the Butler?"

 

[emmavoberry]

The blind men and the elephant! Eats, Shoots and Leaves!

Oh, my gosh! LOL, I think maybe most of us did, too. I lovelovelove it when someone shows me a perfectly reasonable explanation for their interpretation of a simple fact! Whee!

"A red lined bag" depending on how it's written could be:

A bag with red lines.
A bag that has a red lining, outer color unknown.
A bag designed and sold by a brand called Redline.

There could be more...

Yes. And we had this discussion. The last one probably not.
I forget just where/when, but at one point I think JW says "red bag."
We have discussed possible size, function according to size etc.
Even the comma book and commas in today's world.

When WHEN will we get some news!? Something NEW to CHEW on. I am starting to chew on my fellow WSers now.

PS there were more.

 

[yepitsme]

Maybe the fact that she has made numerous statements to MSM makes her okay to discuss? The fact that LE stated there are others involved and they believe this was "an inside job" makes people who were in close contact with the family interesting to us. I hope that people close to the family and Mrs. F would not lurk in this forum. It would be painful to see all the theories put forward as we try to figure out what happened.
.

LE has not said they think this is an inside job. They've said they think there's a connection to the family. Their point was that this wasn't a random act. This was said before DW was identified. He did have a connection, he worked at AIW. He was also arrested outside AIW.

 

[yepitsme]

Reply to
rkf's excellent post upthread re: NG

Truly a wonderfully expressed and well-argued case for our discussing NG as a possible suspect. I don't agree that she should be identified personally as we theorize about an insider, but I am one little member and I have had my day in court on this issue. It's obvious that I've misread and misinterpreted the MOD statement. It's tuff when we are getting so few facts to hold discussion at all. Limiting ourselves to hashing and re-hashing JW/DW +"friends" is stifling, especially to those who find NG's behavior/statements to press suspect.
That accounts for many involved in discussion; Let me not be the Grinch! It seems no one is letting me anyways.
Could we refer to her as "the Butler?"

PS compelling pers. example diving case--going to re-read that part

So I interpret this as you saying you're bored with the discussion so far and therefore want to expand it by discussing NG as a suspect. I previously criticized NG for speaking with the press so much. I do not want that to be interpreted as thinking she is involved. I have seen absolutely no indication that she is involved, or that LE thinks she is involved, and I think you do her a real disservice to create that impression.

 

[BondGirl]

DW lies about everything. He may have lied about not being a resident alien to avoid being reported to ICE. Also many police departments do not report arrests and convictions to ICE. Federal Law "authorizes" reporting but many states do not routinely report these to ICE. If he only provided his MD driver's license as ID, police would not know he was a resident alien. His native tongue is English so he may not have a foreign accent.

14 years after 9/11 and LE still doesn't leverage technology to communicate effectively. We're seeing this with NY Prison escapee search too. Awful!


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[facundo]

LE has not said they think this is an inside job. They've said they think there's a connection to the family. Their point was that this wasn't a random act. This was said before DW was identified. He did have a connection, he worked at AIW. He was also arrested outside AIW.

DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier... "connection to the family through the business."
http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2015/05/21/police-chief-cathy-lanier-daron-wint-is-believed/

 

[BellaVita]

I'm really intrigued by the racial/ethnic categorization on the LE documents (and btw thank you to those who pointed out that the four categories were lumped together with one check box. That made the choice of that category for W1 make more sense to me. I thought LE had written in by hand all four categories). It would appear LE there are using older racial classifications than what have been used in Census information in the U.S. since 1977. The reason I say this is because their "White/Caucasian/Asian Indian/Arab" includes Asian Indians, who, since at least 1977 have been defined officially in the U.S. as Asian, rather than as white/Caucasian, and since it uses the term "Arab" which has since then been supplanted by reference to people with origins in the Middle East.

Here is a link with a definition of the race and ethnicity categories according to the Office of Management and Budget (this sets out the official categories for the census). You'll note that the "White" category includes people having origins in the Middle East and North Africa. Oftentimes in U.S. history (and European history) the term "Caucasian" has included people of the Middle East and the Asian subcontinent, based in part on linguistics (Hindi is part of the Indo-European language system). The whole issue of racial terminology is, of course, incredibly complicated, but I thought it might help to indicate that the racial category "White" in the U.S. does not exclusively refer to those with "white" skin color.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards/

Yes, it's complicated and a lot of sensitivities to take into account. Even people of the same background disagree about a lot of this. I'd think that for LE purposes though, there'd be a better, more concise way to describe someone. EXAMPLE: very unlikely that someone from a long line of Irish ancestors would resemble someone descended from a long line of Asian Indians. Possible, but very unlikely. And I don't see how lumping these categories together is useful to LE. More likely, an attempt at political correctness run amok. IMO.

 

[Skigirl]

Geez, people, you'd think one of us had killed the Savopoulos family and VF.

When bored, I stay interested by going back to the original sources, early reports and police/criminal records, make timelines and the like. Early nuggets are sometimes overlooked or not remembered during big data dumps until people get bored enough to suss them out. Law enforcement sometimes lets out significant details early on without realizing just how significant and then stops discussing those details. Sometimes very interesting tidbits are found during the "nothing new is coming out" phase, which can last a long time.

 

[Carolyn1963]

I hope it does not sound like I am mad. I am not.


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[jbk]

Geez, people, you'd think one of us had killed the Savopoulos family and VF.

When bored, I stay interested by going back to the original sources, early reports and police/criminal records, make timelines and the like. Early nuggets are sometimes overlooked or not remembered during big data dumps until people get bored enough to suss them out. Law enforcement sometimes lets out significant details early on without realizing just how significant and then stop discussing those details. Sometimes very interesting tidbits during the "nothing new is coming out" phase, which can last a long time.

Have you come across any info that came out early on in this case that is of interest/hasn't been discussed here yet? I keep coming back here hoping there is something new but that something "new" doesn't necessarily have to be newly released, it could just be 'new' to me/to this discussion! TIA

 

[BellaVita]

14 years after 9/11 and LE still doesn't leverage technology to communicate effectively. We're seeing this with NY Prison escapee search too. Awful!


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The technology is there. There is little will in the realm of politics to utilize it. LE hands are tied in most cases. IMO.

 

[Keefer]

At the risk of offending lawyers everywhere I am going to share a few facts about the man who would be Daron Wint's lawyer, Robin Flicker.
He went to West Point and also attended the university of penn. law school, one of the most exclusive private law schools in the nation. He has a bs in many things including one for electrical and mechanical engineering from Case institute of Tech.(private univ.)
His first case went all the way to the supremes!
He is a wealthy real estate broker.
He has been disbarred a few times.
Elected to house of reps in 1979 to Marylands 8th district home of Montgomery county.
Really, really wants to be DW's lawyer!
I don't think he is a suspect, but I do wonder why such a prominent person such as mr. Flick is involved.

 

[emmavoberry]

I don't think we have to call anyone a suspect in order to discuss their actions.i do find it odd that some people want to tell others what to opine about...

I am odd. I do want to tell others. And I CAN! And so can you and every one else. Only those who are MODS tho can actually moderate the discussion, set the boundaries, delete posts, warn posters, and finally, kick members the heck out! I'm weird, but I know my place.
There is only one suspect, legally, in this case.
I have never claimed that those who want to pose or explore questions about the Savopoulos's surviving house cleaner are unfairly naming her a suspect in the legal sense.
A story to think on: Two monks, one the veteran monk and one the novice, are crossing a river when they see a woman in distress also trying to get across. Novice monk says "too bad we can't help her. But our vows do not allow us to touch women." Veteran monk says "Cmon, help me carry her." They rescue her and set her down gently on the river bank, no worse for wear. A mile later into their trek, novice monk says, "Oh how could we so violate our vows?!" Veteran monk says, "I carried the lady for two minutes and set her down an hour ago. You, you keep carrying her!"
I stopped arguing this issue with my last post.